Why do we tolerate self confessed non-believers? Why do they even come

[Steve_S]

Option 3 would be to repent of that lifestyle and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into a proper heterosexual relationship (this would be the correct answer). You started with a false predication that homosexuality is different from any other type of lustful sin by indicating that it's something that you "am" and not something that you do, thereby not allowing yourself to draw the proper conclusion.

I think this is a fundamental stumbling block between believers and non-believers understanding each other on this issue; each have their own definition of homosexual. The biblical concept of homosexuality as I understand it relies heavily upon the behavior of the individual and not on their actual sexual orientation. However the modern concept of homosexuality relies heavily upon sexual orientation. So a guy who is sexually attracted to other guys but married to a women in a monogamous relationship to please God is not gay by biblical standards (as far as I'm aware), but he is still gay to the rest of society because he is sexually attracted to other guys.

My point is that we need to make sure we are on the same page with our definitions.

You even see this contrast of definitions in the scientific literature. Often a Christian group writing a paper or doing a study of changing homosexuals to heterosexuals will use the biblical definition of homosexual in their study and hail it as proof that you can be 'cured' of homosexuality. And in how they define their terms they are correct, but when using the modern definition of homosexuality the claim of the change becomes nonsense as no significant change in sexual orientation was observed.

Just something to keep in mind about the gay debate.

This really wasn't about the gay debate, honestly, and I believe viole frequents these boards enough so as to understand the Christian conception (accurate conception) of homosexuality. But, having said that, I do understand your point.

[Steve_S]

Option 3 would be to repent of that lifestyle and allow the Holy Spirit to guide you into a proper heterosexual relationship (this would be the correct answer). You started with a false predication that homosexuality is different from any other type of lustful sin by indicating that it's something that you "am" and not something that you do, thereby not allowing yourself to draw the proper conclusion.

I think this is a fundamental stumbling block between believers and non-believers understanding each other on this issue; each have their own definition of homosexual. The biblical concept of homosexuality as I understand it relies heavily upon the behavior of the individual and not on their actual sexual orientation. However the modern concept of homosexuality relies heavily upon sexual orientation. So a guy who is sexually attracted to other guys but married to a women in a monogamous relationship to please God is not gay by biblical standards (as far as I'm aware), but he is still gay to the rest of society because he is sexually attracted to other guys.

My point is that we need to make sure we are on the same page with our definitions.

You even see this contrast of definitions in the scientific literature. Often a Christian group writing a paper or doing a study of changing homosexuals to heterosexuals will use the biblical definition of homosexual in their study and hail it as proof that you can be 'cured' of homosexuality. And in how they define their terms they are correct, but when using the modern definition of homosexuality the claim of the change becomes nonsense as no significant change in sexual orientation was observed.

Just something to keep in mind about the gay debate.

Oh well, that explains a lot.

For a moment I thought that people could choose their sexual orientation, which seems absurd. I could not suddenly decide to be attracted by members of my sex if this inclination would not be already present, somehow. It would be like me having the choice to start liking hip hop...never! Lol

Thanks for the clarification.

Ciao

- viole

It would be rejecting those base sinful lusts and allowing the Holy Spirit to guide you in the proper direction if you were gay.

[HAZARD]

I am refering to people who were raised as Christians and now are self professed athiests, ie, non-believers. Every one is entitled to their own opinions. Many X-Christian, now athiests decided to become so because remaining a follower of God would interfer with their chosen life style.

This is bold statement and contains a logical absurdity.

Who would be so silly to decide to stop believing God because it interferes with her lifestyle? Suppose I believe in God, but I am gay. I have two options:

1) i join a gay friendly church

2) I stop believing God so that I can be gay

Option 2) is irrational. If I believe in God, I would never stop believing so that I can enjoy some freedom for a few decades and geopardize the rest of eternity.

It would be like stopping believing in law enforcement because it interferes with what I want to do. No, I stopped believing in God not because I wanted to be free to do what I want (my life did not change a bit, actually), but because of other reasons.

I noticed some similarities between what you wrote and what is written in my profile, except stirring the pot, I hope. Then I saw you actually visited my profile before posting this. Sorry, if that disturbed you

But I think faith is strong enough to sustain some discussions coming from a little harmless girl like me....is it?

Ciao

- viole

You dont disturbe me in any way at all.

You said earlier,

"

No, I stopped believing in God not because I wanted to be free to do what I want (my life did not change a bit, actually)"

.

Your life did change dramaticly. When you decided you no longer believed in God, you at that very moment rejected Jesus Christ and His sacrifice for you personally and you were then cut off from God!

You no longer believe this but here it is anyway!

"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." (Matth. 10:33).

"If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:" (2 Timothy 2:12).

What I have found in life is people who have left the faith for their own personal reasons tend to remain in close contact with it through Christian sites either stirring the pot or seeking some kind of solace as if they deserve special treatment because of their now non-belief. To be a true follower of Christ one must get out of the sin business alltogether.One cannot be in sin and in Jesus at the same time. The Scribes and pharisies thought they were Gods people and what did Jesus say about them to their faces?

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." (Matt. 23:27)

Oh, they looked clean on the outside all right, but on the inside they were full of rotting flesh and dead mens bones!

"ye outwardly appear righteous unto men, hypocrites, whited sepulchres, full of dead men's bones, full of all uncleanness, full of hypocrisy and iniquity" (Matt. 23:28).

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matt. 23:33).

Seeing He thought that of so called believers, what do you think He thinks of those who left Him but hang around anyway?

You knew Him once, now you deny Him, so the end result unless one repents could well be;

"They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).

"Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth." (John 9:31).

[Steve_S]

I am refering to people who were raised as Christians and now are self professed athiests, ie, non-believers. Every one is entitled to their own opinions. Many X-Christian, now athiests decided to become so because remaining a follower of God would interfer with their chosen life style.

This is bold statement and contains a logical absurdity.

Who would be so silly to decide to stop believing God because it interferes with her lifestyle? Suppose I believe in God, but I am gay. I have two options:

1) i join a gay friendly church

2) I stop believing God so that I can be gay

Option 2) is irrational. If I believe in God, I would never stop believing so that I can enjoy some freedom for a few decades and geopardize the rest of eternity.

It would be like stopping believing in law enforcement because it interferes with what I want to do. No, I stopped believing in God not because I wanted to be free to do what I want (my life did not change a bit, actually), but because of other reasons.

I noticed some similarities between what you wrote and what is written in my profile, except stirring the pot, I hope. Then I saw you actually visited my profile before posting this. Sorry, if that disturbed you

But I think faith is strong enough to sustain some discussions coming from a little harmless girl like me....is it?

Ciao

- viole

You dont disturbe me in any way at all. What I have found in life is people who have left the faith for their own personal reasons tend to remain in close contact with it through Christian sites either stirring the pot or seeking some kind of solace as if they deserve special treatment because of their now non-belief. To be a true follower of Christ one must get out of the sin business alltogether.One cannot be in sin and in Jesus at the same time. The Scribes and pharisies thought they were Gods people and what did Jesus say about them to their faces?

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness." (Matt. 23:27)

Oh, they looked clean on the outside all right, but on the inside they were full of rotting flesh and dead mens bones!

"ye outwardly appear righteous unto men, hypocrites, whited sepulchres, full of dead men's bones, full of all uncleanness, full of hypocrisy and iniquity" (Matt. 23:28).

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? (Matt. 23:33).

Seeing He thought that of so called believers, what do you think He thinks of those who left Him but hang around anyway?

Not completely in context, but I certainly think it has merit in a situation such as this:

Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[bornagain2011]

I am very thankful for this thread. I was getting frustrated before with the stubborness of unbelievers and how they have a comeback for everything, but recently in reading my Bible, I came across scripture stating that it is God that makes the seed grow. We can plant it, but He makes it grow. And the Spirit has been reminding me of this frequently. I get so frustrated and think to myself "why are they even on here? They are so set in their ways!" and I become convinced that the only reason some of them are here is to make us mad or start trouble. Sometimes it will be days at a time where I'm not in the outer court. It gets disheartening. But as long as some people come to know the Truth it is worth it.

Something that puzzled me, if these unbelievers truley believe there is no God or heaven/hell, then why not leave us be? Why not let us have our cozy delusion? But, I came to the realization that they must deep down in their hearts know their Creator, and a part of them is longing for the connection with Him. If a child never knew his father he would long for a connection as well. God put that seeking nature into our hearts so that hopefully we would find Him, but alot of people will actually turn to some sort of addiction to fill that void, or even another person. But this never works. My void was filled the day I accepted Jesus as Lord. Amen!

God bless

Natalie

[Terra7]

I do not believe the question is :is there a belief in God for anyone but, what God himself says is acceptable to him not, what we believe is acceptable for us- Jesus made clear distinctions what is acceptable to his father remember Jesus said: when you see me you see the father . Be in the world and not of it- you,your temple is supposed to be thought of and treated as a Holy object for that`s where God dwells within you and it must be revered and kept without sin, Holy unto God ! what is natural should remain so and the seed of the human race only comes from the the natural order God created -Man and Woman that is what is acceptable to God -the rest is unacceptable - God is a God of purity and Holiness that is God`s order Jesus wraps those who truly love him in his Holy righteousness to cover our sins from the father .Forgiveness of sins means -go and sin no more not continue on as if nothing has changed -the spirit man is now doing battle with the natural man - finding Jesus in your heart and accepting his gift of forgiveness means you join with him in that battle waging war against your own flesh not make compromises with it -your spirit man comes first your attention is on him and you must strengthen him with Gods Holiness . Jesus went 40 days in the desert to purge the flesh and cleanse and strengthen his spirit to walk in the spirit with the father -Jesus chose to do that -it was a choice, not a compromise . Following Jesus is not a casual choice it is an agreement, a Holy one to adhere to His Fathers desires for his acceptance, it is not a debatable life style -you either agree or you do not - you are either for me or against me That is What the Lord himself says ,not me -and I agree with him !

[bornagain2011]

Great post Terra!

Our new self is always doing battle with our old self. Every day we have to choose to be holy. And we have to choose to love people that hate us, or don't share the same beliefs as we do.

[HAZARD]

Its people who once believed, then for what ever reason stop believing, make statements like, "I was once a believer, but now," and then they go on with why they no longer believe. Its these I no longer waste time with. They had the love of God, His forgiveness, then they threw it away. They hang around Christian boards as if they want sympathy, or even try to excuse their discision, and even try to persuade other believers to turn.

Think on this Scripture for a while.

Jesus Christs own words!

Matthew 7:6. "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Christ here is warning people against careless dispensing of sacred things. Dont force truth upon rebels who openly reject it, or give holy things to back sliders, fault finders, mote hunters and evil speakers.

As In;

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2:20-22).

Haz.

[Guest HisG]

TBH, I think it's "out of their hands" why they come here : )

There's a greater purpose for them being here -

Isaiah 55 v 11: So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (KJB Cambridge Edition)

[GoldenEagle]

Christians know that God will do right even by those who have never ever even heard of Him! or any other name associated with and to God.

God has revealed His method of dealing with these people even those who have never heard the gospel.

"When Gentiles who do not possess the law carry out its precepts ... (t)heir conscience is called as witness, and their own thoughts argue the case on either side, against them or even for them, on the day when God judges the secrets of human hearts.... So my gospel declares." (Romans 2:14-16).

In this instance it would seem, according to Paul, God does not always judge based on faith in Christ alone, but presumably on whether Gentiles are good people (that is, whether aware of it or not, they carry out the precepts of the Jewish law). Based on this approach atheists could also attain a favourable judgement. Thank you Hazard for pointing this out.

Wait are you implying that this passage gives reason to believe Atheists could inherit the Kingdom of God and consequently eternal life by being “good” people? Is that what you’re talking about by “favorable judgment”? Please clarify.

TBH, I think it's "out of their hands" why they come here : )

There's a greater purpose for them being here -

Isaiah 55 v 11: So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth: it shall not return unto Me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (KJB Cambridge Edition)

I agree God’s word doesn’t return to Himself void. We are His messengers. It’s up to God through the Holy Spirit to grow the see of the Gospel and restore people to Himself. That is a very freeing thought. Do you agree?

Its people who once believed, then for what ever reason stop believing, make statements like, "I was once a believer, but now," and then they go on with why they no longer believe. Its these I no longer waste time with. They had the love of God, His forgiveness, then they threw it away. They hang around Christian boards as if they want sympathy, or even try to excuse their discision, and even try to persuade other believers to turn.

Think on this Scripture for a while.

Jesus Christs own words!

Matthew 7:6. "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you."

Christ here is warning people against careless dispensing of sacred things. Dont force truth upon rebels who openly reject it, or give holy things to back sliders, fault finders, mote hunters and evil speakers.

As In;

"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2:20-22).

Haz.

Even if the passage in Matthew tells us not to cast our pearls before swine (which by inference means everyone and anyone who is a creation of God and has not been adopted as part of His family – even Atheists) God’s Word is powerful enough (through the Holy Spirit) to overcome their unbelief. Do you agree?