Way195 Posted September 12, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 36 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2012 (edited) By all appearances we might have some evolutionists/athiests in this thread... It might be true that not quite ALL evolutionists believe in relativism; but you know as well as I do that that is by far one thing that the majority of them have in common. The truth in the Bible on the contrary, is not relative. Edited September 12, 2012 by Way195 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 12, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2012 Well, since you have decided that it would be a good idea to mock me and attack me I wont even respond to your comment. Have a good day. God bless Indeed, I mocked your OPINIONS that you published here. Because they are based so obviously on wrong assumptions that it is hard for me believe it. And because you talked about morals lacking in evolutionists without taking the slightest note of the fact that you are slandering them and spreading lies about them. I think there is even a commandment whether God wants us to do this or not, wouldn't you agree? To give truth the honour, I tried -seriously - to put your malicious claims right. Actually, the Bible does a much better job at refuting those who choose not to believe in their Creator. Calls them fools in fact. God's commandment is this: ''YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND." This commandment was first given by God to Moses and Jesus, the Son of God, reiterated it as rendered in the NT. I believe the op is doing her best to follow that commandment for which I commend her. I find it remarkably two faced when a person who slaps God in the face cries foul when that is drawn to their attention Wouldn't you agree At any rate, I doubt VERY much that the op is actually the opinions of the poster. I am pretty sure it is a copy/paste deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Way195 Posted September 12, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 36 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2012 By all appearances we might have some evolutionists/athiests in this thread... It might be true that not quite ALL evolutionists believe in relativism; but you know as well as I do that that is by far one thing that the majority of them have in common. The truth in the Bible on the contrary, is not relative. The majority of evolutionists are actually Christian, or at least profess the faith. The beliefs of evolutionists vary as much as the beliefs of those who think water is made up of two hydrogen and one oxygen atom. You cannot expect to broadly paint evolutionists and get anywhere as it is composed of Christians, atheists, believers of other faiths, and everything in-between. If you want to debunk evolution or any other science just debunk the theory, don't add on philosophies that are non-essential (i.e. materialism or relativism isn't a prerequisite to fully accepting evolutionary theory). It may sound great when preaching to the Christian choir, but it will make little sense to anyone you try to convert if they know a thing or two about the subject. No REAL christian as a true follower of Christ can believe evolution, because by beleiving evolution one is denying the existence of an almighty being who has created all things by his power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Way195 Posted September 12, 2012 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 36 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 3 Days Won: 0 Joined: 07/20/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 12, 2012 By all appearances we might have some evolutionists/athiests in this thread... It might be true that not quite ALL evolutionists believe in relativism; but you know as well as I do that that is by far one thing that the majority of them have in common. The truth in the Bible on the contrary, is not relative. The majority of evolutionists are actually Christian, or at least profess the faith. The beliefs of evolutionists vary as much as the beliefs of those who think water is made up of two hydrogen and one oxygen atom. You cannot expect to broadly paint evolutionists and get anywhere as it is composed of Christians, atheists, believers of other faiths, and everything in-between. If you want to debunk evolution or any other science just debunk the theory, don't add on philosophies that are non-essential (i.e. materialism or relativism isn't a prerequisite to fully accepting evolutionary theory). It may sound great when preaching to the Christian choir, but it will make little sense to anyone you try to convert if they know a thing or two about the subject. No REAL christian as a true follower of Christ can believe evolution, because by beleiving evolution one is denying the existence of an almighty being who has created all things by his power. Evolution doesn't deny God's power or creative acts. It's entirely possible to think that God has chosen to create in that manner. Why do you think that atheists are relativists? I don't understand why people would think this. Most atheists are, as a matter of fact materialists (not all), and materialists are certainly not relativists about their metaphysical truths. They make pretty bold assertions what is really the case, i.e. that everything which exists is reducible to material substances and properties. This is, on the whole, a weird bunch of things to assert. The theory of evolution forms all sorts of mathmatical calculations etc in order to come up with an explaination of how the world came into being. We can simply believe that this world was formed by the awesome power of the almighty God. In short, I am totally shocked to see people on here, (presumably professing christians) defending the theory of evolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2012 By all appearances we might have some evolutionists/athiests in this thread... It might be true that not quite ALL evolutionists believe in relativism; but you know as well as I do that that is by far one thing that the majority of them have in common. The truth in the Bible on the contrary, is not relative. The majority of evolutionists are actually Christian, or at least profess the faith. The beliefs of evolutionists vary as much as the beliefs of those who think water is made up of two hydrogen and one oxygen atom. You cannot expect to broadly paint evolutionists and get anywhere as it is composed of Christians, atheists, believers of other faiths, and everything in-between. If you want to debunk evolution or any other science just debunk the theory, don't add on philosophies that are non-essential (i.e. materialism or relativism isn't a prerequisite to fully accepting evolutionary theory). It may sound great when preaching to the Christian choir, but it will make little sense to anyone you try to convert if they know a thing or two about the subject. No REAL christian as a true follower of Christ can believe evolution, because by beleiving evolution one is denying the existence of an almighty being who has created all things by his power. Well that certainly is a very all encompassing statement now. You sure about that? I am not an evolutionist, but I can, actually, see how a Christian could believe in evolution. Who is to say God did not set things in motion and every step of the way He had watch over it? I don't believe that myself, but I would not venture to state that someone who does, is absolutely not a Christian. See, this is one of the problems when people present Christianity as an absolute as in 'this is what I absolutely believe and if you do not, then you are not a Christian'. I do not believe that the theory of evolution is the greatest threat to Christianity and we must snuff it out instantly I know that God is bigger than that and I am not worried. I think attitudes are of more concern especially since my own attitude is certainly not always right and that seems to be the thing that the Holy Spirit dogs on me the most about. In short, I am totally shocked to see people on here, (presumably professing christians) defending the theory of evolution. It's a big world, yuh know? Frankly, I believe in the gap theory myself. I do not believe that humans lived at the same time as dinosaurs. My husband believes in the six day creation and I do not. He does not believe I am not a Christian and I tease him about being eaten by a dinosaur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByFaithAlone Posted September 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 730 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/19/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1993 Share Posted September 13, 2012 I generally concur with baryonoctet and D-9 that evolution and Christianity can be compatible. I actually think the idea that God creating a universe which is fine tuned as to allow for long term formation of atoms, let alone molecules, to be almost more brilliant than just creating the universe almost 6000 years ago but perhaps that is just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippias Posted September 13, 2012 Group: Seeker Followers: 0 Topic Count: 6 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 148 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 2 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/30/2011 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2012 Well, since you have decided that it would be a good idea to mock me and attack me I wont even respond to your comment. Have a good day. God bless Indeed, I mocked your OPINIONS that you published here. Because they are based so obviously on wrong assumptions that it is hard for me believe it. And because you talked about morals lacking in evolutionists without taking the slightest note of the fact that you are slandering them and spreading lies about them. I think there is even a commandment whether God wants us to do this or not, wouldn't you agree? To give truth the honour, I tried -seriously - to put your malicious claims right. Actually, the Bible does a much better job at refuting those who choose not to believe in their Creator. Calls them fools in fact. God's commandment is this: ''YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND." This commandment was first given by God to Moses and Jesus, the Son of God, reiterated it as rendered in the NT. I believe the op is doing her best to follow that commandment for which I commend her. I find it remarkably two faced when a person who slaps God in the face cries foul when that is drawn to their attention Wouldn't you agree At any rate, I doubt VERY much that the op is actually the opinions of the poster. I am pretty sure it is a copy/paste deal sevenseas, you will have noticed that my original response is not about whether evolution is true or not but about bornagain's obviously three false claims about evolutionists and scientific/christan worldview in general (see post #3). So I clearly did not slap God's face nor anyone else's. I remain with my remark: bornagain's faith especially entitles her not to spread false claims, like everyone shouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ByFaithAlone Posted September 13, 2012 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 29 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 730 Content Per Day: 0.16 Reputation: 49 Days Won: 2 Joined: 07/19/2011 Status: Offline Birthday: 09/13/1993 Share Posted September 13, 2012 Question to my Evolutionary and scientific oriented Theists friends: what is more likely, that God, with us in mind, created the universe with initial conditions so that those two stones would collide at the right moment, with right energy and angle (creating also a lot of discomfort to many innocent creatures), or that we are here just because of pure chance? Perhaps not those two particular stones or particular stones in general. However, the idea that God created the initial conditions such that atoms themselves could arise seems more plausible to me. Pure chance on two asteroids colliding in general near a planet that could contain life (assuming the that it is within our universe) is possible. Pure chance on the issue of the fine tuned constants (power of strong force, weak force, etc.) is statistically much less possible unless you start appealing to a multiverse. In that case, I begin to wonder why we do not see cosmic "bruises" where inflationary universes have split off from our own or where neighboring universes have touched ours. We also still have to deal with the idea that the inflationary universe or multiverse if it exists would still be past finite but that gets into other matters where we would probably end up debating contingent states of affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bornagain2011 Posted September 13, 2012 Group: Senior Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 82 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 602 Content Per Day: 0.14 Reputation: 233 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/15/2012 Status: Offline Author Share Posted September 13, 2012 I believe in the literal 6 days and I don't see any reason not to. What God said in the Bible is what He said. With that being said... Okay, so some evolutionists DON'T believe in relativism?? Okay, now I am trying to imagine this. So evolution somehow created humans with moral laws and laws of logic by chance?? I thought evolutionists believed that our thoughts and feelings were all just random chemical reactions? Well, how could my random brain chemistry be the EXACT same as yours to produce the SAME moral laws, or laws of logic? How do evolutionists explain someone jumping out infront of a car to save a stranger? Doesn't that go against survival of the fittest in this dog eat dog world? If evolution were true, wouldn't we be wanting to advance the best of our species? Not risking our lives for the weaker ones? For an evolutionist to claim to believe in any kinds of absolute laws is a complete contradiction, sure he could believe in it...but it is a contradiction none the less. It goes again evolution being a creative process of just chemical accidents. I am not saying that evolutionists have no morals, everyone does, I am just simply saying they can't explain WHY they do. God bless Natalie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenseas Posted September 13, 2012 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 30 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 3,373 Content Per Day: 0.75 Reputation: 683 Days Won: 22 Joined: 02/28/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted September 13, 2012 Well, since you have decided that it would be a good idea to mock me and attack me I wont even respond to your comment. Have a good day. God bless Indeed, I mocked your OPINIONS that you published here. Because they are based so obviously on wrong assumptions that it is hard for me believe it. And because you talked about morals lacking in evolutionists without taking the slightest note of the fact that you are slandering them and spreading lies about them. I think there is even a commandment whether God wants us to do this or not, wouldn't you agree? To give truth the honour, I tried -seriously - to put your malicious claims right. Actually, the Bible does a much better job at refuting those who choose not to believe in their Creator. Calls them fools in fact. God's commandment is this: ''YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND." This commandment was first given by God to Moses and Jesus, the Son of God, reiterated it as rendered in the NT. I believe the op is doing her best to follow that commandment for which I commend her. I find it remarkably two faced when a person who slaps God in the face cries foul when that is drawn to their attention Wouldn't you agree At any rate, I doubt VERY much that the op is actually the opinions of the poster. I am pretty sure it is a copy/paste deal sevenseas, you will have noticed that my original response is not about whether evolution is true or not but about bornagain's obviously three false claims about evolutionists and scientific/christan worldview in general (see post #3). So I clearly did not slap God's face nor anyone else's. I remain with my remark: bornagain's faith especially entitles her not to spread false claims, like everyone shouldn't. yes, I did see that. Again, please note, I very much doubt the op is actually the words of the op And I was not referring to you in particular with my comment about slapping God in the face...I guess I might have made that clearer We don't want false claims anywhere I'm sure. I think a bit more has been bitten off than can be chewed with an unexpected response if you get my drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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