Why Marriage Matters - One man, one woman

[nebula]

... Now, I respect your views and all, but how exactly is gay marriage bad? They are just like us, and if they love a person who happens to be of the same sex, then they should marry.

Question: Does a gay union make sense evolutionarily?

[1peterlight]

Another problem here is the emphasis our society puts on sex. God says sex is something only meant for a married man and woman. I'm not saying they can't do it simply for the enjoyment of it. I believe they can because the Bible says the marriage bed is undefiled. So anything a married man and woman do is not sin.

But when a society starts to glorify sex, as our society did, it leads to all kinds of sin. Not just homosexuality, but S&M, B&D, 3 people in the bed, none of which are married, and the list goes on.

I dare say what we need right now is for God to make an appearance so the general population will know He is real, and His rules for Holy Living are real too. But I fear next time God comes to Earth it will be to bring wrath, not a slap on the wrist.

Do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time, that you may devote yourselves to prayer; but then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. ...1 corinth 7

Sex between married people is welcome, do not deprive one another.

I recently listened to mere christianity by request on here, and loved the book, and i love how he puts our sex sickness today:

You can get a large audience together for a strip-tease act—that is, to watch a

girl undress on the stage. Now suppose you came to a country where you could fill a theatre by simply

bringing a covered plate on to the stage and then slowly lifting the cover so as to let every one see,

just before the lights went out, that it contained a mutton chop or a bit of bacon, would you not think

that in that country something had gone wrong with the appetite for food? And would not anyone who

had grown up in a different world think there was something equally queer about the state of the sex

instinct among us?

One critic said that if he found a country in which such striptease acts with food were popular, he

would conclude that the people of that country were starving. He meant, of course, to imply that such

things as the strip-tease act resulted not from sexual corruption but from sexual starvation. I agree

with him that if, in some strange land, we found that similar acts with mutton chops were popular, one

of the possible explanations which would occur to me would be famine. But the next step would be to

test our hypothesis by finding out whether, in fact, much or little food was being consumed in that

country. If the evidence showed that a good deal was being eaten, then of course we should have to

abandon the hypothesis of starvation and try to think of another one.

In the same way, before accepting sexual starvation as the cause of the strip-tease, we should have to

look for evidence that there is in fact more sexual abstinence in our age than in those ages when things

like the strip-tease were unknown. But surely there is no such evidence. Contraceptives have made

sexual indulgence far less costly within marriage and far safer outside it than ever before, and public

opinion is less hostile to illicit unions and even to perversion than it has been since Pagan times. Nor

is the hypothesis of "starvation" the only one we can imagine. Everyone knows that the sexual

appetite, like our other appetites, grows by indulgence. Starving men may think much about food, but

so do gluttons; the gorged, as well as the famished, like titillations.

Here is a third point. You find very few people who want to eat things that really are not food or to do

other things with food instead of eating it. In other words, perversions of the food appetite are rare.

But perversions of the sex instinct are numerous, hard to cure, and frightful. I am sorry to have to go

into all these details, but I must. The reason why I must is that you and I, for the last twenty years,

have been fed all day long on good solid lies about sex. We have been told, till one is sick of hearing

it, that sexual desire is in the same state as any of our other natural desires and that if only we abandon

the silly old Victorian idea of hushing it up, everything in the garden will be lovely. It is not true. The

moment you look at the facts, and away from the propaganda, you see that it is not. They tell you sex

has become a mess because it was hushed up.

But for the last twenty years it has not been hushed up. It has been chattered about all day long. Yet it

is still in a mess. If hushing up had been the cause of the trouble, ventilation would have set it right.

But it has not. I think it is the other way round. I think the human race originally hushed it up because

it had become such a mess. Modern people are always saying, "Sex is nothing to be ashamed of."

They may mean two things. They may mean "There is nothing to be ashamed of in the fact that the

human race reproduces itself in a certain way, nor in the fact that it gives pleasure." If they mean that,

they are right. Christianity says the same. It is not the thing, nor the pleasure, that is the trouble.

The old Christian teachers said that if man had never fallen, sexual pleasure, instead of being less than it is now, would actually have been greater. I know some muddle-headed Christians have talked as if

Christianity thought that sex, or the body, or pleasure, were bad in themselves. But they were wrong.

Christianity is almost the only one of the great religions which thoroughly approves of the

body—which believes that matter is good, that God Himself once took on a human body, that some

kind of body is going to be given to us even in Heaven and is going to be an essential part of our

happiness, our beauty, and our energy.

Christianity has glorified marriage more than any other religion: and nearly all the greatest love poetry

in the world has been produced by Christians. If anyone says that sex, in itself, is bad, Christianity

contradicts him at once. But, of course, when people say, "Sex is nothing to be ashamed of," they may

mean "the state into which the sexual instinct has now got is nothing to be ashamed of."

If they mean that, I think they are wrong. I think it is everything to be ashamed of. There is nothing to

be ashamed of in enjoying your food: there would be everything to be ashamed of if half the world

made food the main interest of their lives and spent their time looking at pictures of food and

dribbling and smacking their lips. I do not say you and I are individually responsible for the present

situation. Our ancestors have handed over to us organisms which are warped in this respect: and we

grow up surrounded by propaganda in favour of unchastity.

There are people who want to keep our sex instinct inflamed in order to make money out of us.

Because, of course, a man with an obsession is a man who has very little sales-resistance. God knows

our situation; He will not judge us as if we had no difficulties to overcome. What matters is the

sincerity and perseverance of our will to overcome them.

I think this well sums up what is happening today. It is no different with homosexuality, we all have temptations, even different sexual ones, and it is our choice to give in or to do what God and his word asks of us.

I completely agree and second your comments about young people being confused about life, and about what to do and how to be, I am 27, and I was and still am, it is a process. I grew up with parents who wanted me to be happy no matter what, it is a sweet sentiment, but I always knew if I wanted to be gay or transgender or sleep with an animal(okay that might be a stretch, but that might be what's next!) they would accept and love me. My mom was a child of 70s and in the 80s when she was in highschool her best friend was gay, by time I was 15 I believed in accepting everyone just as they were and live and let live and dont discriminate(because let's face it, that's what they call it) my parents also didn't have the greatest marriage and came from parents who didn't have the greatest marriage so they actually told us growing up, dont get married, dont feel like you have to stay with someone, people get divorced all the time now(oddly enough they're still together and happier than ever, go figure) I know why they said these things and I dont hold it against them, but it certainly did muddle up my mind. By God's grace things changed in my life(against my will in many ways) when I was 15 years old. I was not born again then, I didnt even read my bible or go to church, that is all in recent time. But I have been able to easily look back and see why everything happened and know it was God taking care of me. And one of the things that happened was the veil was lifted from my eyes and I am thankful now to read the bible and KNOW, KNOW, KNOW that I am following a divine moral guideline, and that the mantra of my ma and pa that so many have adopted today, just doesn't work, it doesn't help us growing up. It's a beautiful sentiment, to be happy and live and let live, but it doesn't work. I know it first hand, and I can watch it now. I dont 'hate' gay people, I dont hate thieves, I dont like what they do becaus God's words tell me it's wrong. And I'm sorry but it does make good old fashioned logical sense that marriage should be between a man and woman. A lock and key, either one is useless without the other. I could be really lewd here, I could state what we already know about why it's filthy and doesn't make a lick of sense physically, but then you get into all kinds of others physical perversions humans have come up with so let's not go there. What I do know is that there are men out there who have ceased being gay. I am not pretending that they never have temptation, but they choose to not be ruled by sinful longing. It can be done.

Edited March 29, 2013 by 1peterlight

[bestrfcplayer]

What I'm trying to get at to you guys is: you can be Christian and be pro-gay. Now, I respect your views and all, but how exactly is gay marriage bad? They are just like us, and if they love a person who happens to be of the same sex, then they should marry. And how exactly will it do harm to the United States? In other countries where gay marriage is legal, it did not affect the countries negatively.

Can you be Christian and pro-adultery?

No, one cannot be Christian and pro-gay, because homosexuality is a sin, and there is no way to make it a non-sin. Instituting gay marriage in America will undefine marriage, and turn it into a meaningless farce. The reason that the government is involved in regulating marriage at all is because of children. A same-sex union is unable to propagate and produce a child. Therefore, just as they want to be able to be married to legitimize a counterfeit relationship, they want to be able to adopt children or have them through surrogates or other means to lend further "fulfillment" to the relationship. And it means that the children's views of parent-ship will be frayed and disjointed. Studies have shown, overwhelmingly that children need both a mother and a father to turn out well. Gay marriage with children involved means this gets side-stepped.

But we know that adultery is a sin because it destroys the family. Homosexuality does not. And we know that in this age. Back then, the Israelites did not know that. And marriage will not be undefined, as it can not be defined in the first place. Besides, marriage was first used to gain land and alliances back in ancient times. It wasn't really much of a union. And so what if gay marriage becomes legal? It won't harm the United States. Look at countries in Europe that have already leagalized it. Countries like the Netherlands, Sweeden and Spain (and I think Switzerland has also legalized it, but I don't know). Those countries aren't falling apart. And what about the children who come home to a father who is beating his wife? Sometimes kids do good with both parents, one parent, or two parents that happen to be gay.

[GoldenEagle]

And so what if gay marriage becomes legal? It won't harm the United States. Look at countries in Europe that have already leagalized it. Countries like the Netherlands, Sweeden and Spain (and I think Switzerland has also legalized it, but I don't know). Those countries aren't falling apart. And what about the children who come home to a father who is beating his wife? Sometimes kids do good with both parents, one parent, or two parents that happen to be gay.

I'm sorry Bestrfcplayer did you just say look at Spain... and use it as an example of countries that aren't falling apart? Hum... Might want to rethink that? Have you heard of the European crisis (also called "Eurozone crisis" with countries on the verge of bankruptcy) that's been going on for say the last 5-7 years?

Wiki isn't the best source but at least here's a start... Spanish Financial Crisis

Have you been to Europe lately? Gas prices are what $8-9 per gallon?

[1peterlight]

What I'm trying to get at to you guys is: you can be Christian and be pro-gay. Now, I respect your views and all, but how exactly is gay marriage bad? They are just like us, and if they love a person who happens to be of the same sex, then they should marry. And how exactly will it do harm to the United States? In other countries where gay marriage is legal, it did not affect the countries negatively.

Can you be Christian and pro-adultery?

No, one cannot be Christian and pro-gay, because homosexuality is a sin, and there is no way to make it a non-sin. Instituting gay marriage in America will undefine marriage, and turn it into a meaningless farce. The reason that the government is involved in regulating marriage at all is because of children. A same-sex union is unable to propagate and produce a child. Therefore, just as they want to be able to be married to legitimize a counterfeit relationship, they want to be able to adopt children or have them through surrogates or other means to lend further "fulfillment" to the relationship. And it means that the children's views of parent-ship will be frayed and disjointed. Studies have shown, overwhelmingly that children need both a mother and a father to turn out well. Gay marriage with children involved means this gets side-stepped.

But we know that adultery is a sin because it destroys the family. Homosexuality does not. And we know that in this age. Back then, the Israelites did not know that. And marriage will not be undefined, as it can not be defined in the first place. Besides, marriage was first used to gain land and alliances back in ancient times. It wasn't really much of a union. And so what if gay marriage becomes legal? It won't harm the United States. Look at countries in Europe that have already leagalized it. Countries like the Netherlands, Sweeden and Spain (and I think Switzerland has also legalized it, but I don't know). Those countries aren't falling apart. And what about the children who come home to a father who is beating his wife? Sometimes kids do good with both parents, one parent, or two parents that happen to be gay.

In the netherlands it has destroyed marriage. What's happened there is less people geting married, instead they have sex and then get pregnant and go on their merry way to the next partner. I will find some statistics and when I do post.

[GoldenEagle]

But we know that adultery is a sin because it destroys the family. Homosexuality does not. And we know that in this age. Back then, the Israelites did not know that. And marriage will not be undefined, as it can not be defined in the first place. Besides, marriage was first used to gain land and alliances back in ancient times. It wasn't really much of a union.

Bestrfcplayer, marriage was first used by God to multiply humanity and to subdue the earth.

Gen. 1:26-28

²⁶ Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all^[b] the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” ²⁷ So God created man in His ownimage; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. ²⁸ Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

Further, marriage is the first institution established by God Himself. One man and one woman for life - God's idea.

Gen. 2:21-25

²¹ And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. ²² Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man.

²³ And Adam said:

“This

is

now bone of my bones

And flesh of my flesh;

She shall be called Woman,

Because she was taken out of Man.”

²⁴ Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

²⁵ And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.

Your thoughts?

[bestrfcplayer]

Well, the be fruitful and multiply part gives humans the ability to reproduce, not necessarily to marry. And the dominion part allows us humans to be caretakers of the earth (which is why we should take care of the enviorment). And while I do agree that Gen 2:24 does state that a man and women marry, we still should let gay people marry, as they are human as well. And it should be everyone's right to marry.

[GoldenEagle]

Well, the be fruitful and multiply part gives humans the ability to reproduce, not necessarily to marry. And the dominion part allows us humans to be caretakers of the earth (which is why we should take care of the enviorment). And while I do agree that Gen 2:24 does state that a man and women marry, we still should let gay people marry, as they are human as well. And it should be everyone's right to marry.

Jesus Himself mentioned the unity of marriage...

Matt. 19:4-6

⁴ And Jesus answered and said to them, “Have you not read that He who madethem at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’⁵ and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? ⁶ So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”

There is no Biblical reference to a man marrying a man or a woman marrying a woman in Scripture to my knowlege. Sure, gay people are human beings that are living in a sinful relationship contrary to God's will. It's really no different than an adulterous relationship, living together outside of marriage, or any other sexual sin - homosexuality is still sin from a Biblical perspective.

Lev. 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.

The Bible tells us because of sexual immorality each husband should have one wife and each wife should have one husband. Where does the Bible say a man should have a husband or a woman should have a wife?

1 Cor. 7:12

But because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband.

Homosexuals relationships occur because people turn away from God.

Rom. 1:26-28

For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

Your thoughts?

[nebula]

And how exactly will it do harm to the United States? In other countries where gay marriage is legal, it did not affect the countries negatively.

Strong families and family units make a nation strong.

The destruction of the family unit (sex viewed as pleasure rather than the bonding of unity in marriage, increase divorce, children raised without fathers, etc.) has been eroding our society for several decades now.

The embracing of homosexuality is the next step in this downward spiral.

Now before you argue gay families - are you willing to stand on the claim that either fathers or mothers are not important to the healthy rearing of a child?

[Fez]

But we know that adultery is a sin because it destroys the family. Homosexuality does not.

You are really confused, and that is what happens when we don't follow, or for that matter, bother to read scripture. We end up making our own doctrine out of stuff that makes us feel good. That is dangerous.

Family, in the scriptural sense is man married to woman, children, elders, etc. Homosexual unions don't destroy the family, because in this case no family exists in the first place.

What the gay movement is attempting to do is to obliterate the true family to gain their end.

No worries, God will never allow it.

Please start reading a bible.