Listen and discern what cost?.

[The_Patriot21]

again, selene, to me thats a misinterpretation. You are saved by faith alone-no amount of works will ever get us into heaven. But, I would also like to propose to you, is that if you have faith, then you will do the works-not because you have to, but because you want to. Your faith is shown by your works, James 2:18 says yea, a man may say thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without my works, and I will shewthee my faith by my works. Yes, they go hand in hand in a sense, but its not your works that save you, not in the least bit, it is our faith that saves us, period, bottom line. However, they go hand in hand, because if faith is shown by works-works are a symptom of faith (couldnt think of a better word) if you dont have works, then chances are you don't have faith. Its not that you need both to get to heaven, its that if you honestly have faith, then you will honestly follow Christs commands and do the works.

[7angel]

wow, that is the worst misinterpretation of those verses I have ever seen 7angel. Yes, when Christ returns, we will all face judgement. But like ephesians 2:8-9 states, we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works, least any man should boast. You just dont get it-one sin, is enough to erase all our good works and damn us to hell-so if we are judged by our works, which if we havent accepted Christ on this earth, we will be, then we will spend eternity in hell. The Bible is clear on that.

James 2

Faith without works is dead

14 My brethren, What good is if someone says he has faith but has no deeds? Can faith save him?

15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,

16 and one of you says to them, 'Go in peace, be warmed and filled, without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?

17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

18 But someone will say, You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my works.

19 You believe that God is one. Good! Even the demons believe and tremble.

20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21 Was not Abraham justified by works our father, when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

22 You see that faith wrought with his works, and faith was perfected by works?

23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was counted for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God.

24 You see then that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

25 Likewise also Rahab the harlot, was not justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead.

[The_Patriot21]

I believe I just stated that 7angel-and my view on it. I even quoted it. My understanding of it is, yes faith without works is dead-because if there is no works there is no faith.

[OneLight]

Your missing the point 7angel-you and I, we cannot condemn anyone. We condemn ourselves. Yes, God is a merciful God, the most merciful out there-but unless you accept that mercy, you are going to hell. Period. thats what the Bible says, thats what God says, And unless you can find scripture to back that up, then this discussion is over. You may want to sit here and call God a liar-but in the end, Im not, because no matter what you and me say, what God says goes.

But you said and agree, believe in eternal punishment without the possibility of exit,

This thought makes God a God without mercy

You have a skewed view of Gods mercy. God gives mercy to everyone until the day they die, then their fate is sealed. Nobody knows if another person is saved. Only God knows.

What do you think this passage means?

Revelation 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 11 / 15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

.

(1) This vision represents the end of the world is not bad news

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books..

(2) The Bible is a book whose words judge us all, good and evil are written to be known, the two paths, - of which we choose one, if we choose the path of God, we live, the other leads to the second death is hell, why second death? - This life is the first death, the second is coming if we choose evil, death means "resurrection, that is, the second death means resurrection second, because we did not test the first.

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.

(3) In fact we are all dead, just a matter of time, those who pass the test of life, we are the first to be resurrected, those who fail are those of Hades or Sheol, that is, those of the second death. also raised, but more pain.

And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

(4) Death and Hades "- were thrown into the lake of fire, how do you understand? - What is thrown into the lake of fire is not the man, but what dwells in man, death and sin, which does not is written in the book, only God knows, we can not know because it is not written

I am not sure whom this reply is to, but since I am the last on you quoted, I will assume it is toward me, since you did not mention anyone, or post, in particular.

1. It all depends on if you are saved or not, if it is bad news or not. To the saved, this is the day we have waited for!

2. Death mean just that, death. Resurrection means living again. They do not have the same meaning.

Death

G2288

thanatos

1)

the death of the body

a)

that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which the life on earth is ended

b)

with the implied idea of future misery in hell

1)

the power of death

c)

since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived as being very dark, it is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness i.e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin

2)

metaph., the loss of that life which alone is worthy of the name,

a)

the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell

3)

the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell

4)

in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell

3. The first resurrection is found in Revelation 20:4-7, which is not Great White Throne Judgment, but 1000 years prior.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then

I saw

the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received

his

mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This

is

the first resurrection. Blessed and holy

is

he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

4. Let's read what the word tells us about whether or not man is cast into the Lake of Fire or not:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is

the Book

of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire

. This is the second death.

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It seems that anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire, so your understanding is flawed.

[The_Patriot21]

I believe I just stated that 7angel-and my view on it. I even quoted it. My understanding of it is, yes faith without works is dead-because if there is no works there is no faith.

That's why I said they go together just as St. James says in the Bible. An atheist, for example, can always do human good works. That won't save him at all because he has no faith. A person who has faith, but does not allow himself to submit to God in doing His will is also not going to cut it. His faith is dead. It's not faith alone or good deeds alone. I think St. James is saying both faith and the good works that comes from God.

I submit to you, that if he has no works, then he has no faith in the first place.

[GoldenEagle]

I believe I just stated that 7angel-and my view on it. I even quoted it. My understanding of it is, yes faith without works is dead-because if there is no works there is no faith.

That's why I said they go together just as St. James says in the Bible. An atheist, for example, can always do human good works. That won't save him at all because he has no faith. A person who has faith, but does not allow himself to submit to God in doing His will is also not going to cut it. His faith is dead. It's not faith alone or good deeds alone. I think St. James is saying both faith and the good works that comes from God.

I submit to you, that if he has no works, then he has no faith in the first place.

I agree Patriot.

[OldShep]

I believe I just stated that 7angel-and my view on it. I even quoted it. My understanding of it is, yes faith without works is dead-because if there is no works there is no faith.

That's why I said they go together just as St. James says in the Bible. An atheist, for example, can always do human good works. That won't save him at all because he has no faith. A person who has faith, but does not allow himself to submit to God in doing His will is also not going to cut it. His faith is dead. It's not faith alone or good deeds alone. I think St. James is saying both faith and the good works that comes from God.

I submit to you, that if he has no works, then he has no faith in the first place.

I agree Patriot.

Dennis

[GoldenEagle]

wow, that is the worst misinterpretation of those verses I have ever seen 7angel. Yes, when Christ returns, we will all face judgement. But like ephesians 2:8-9 states, we are saved by grace through faith, and not of works, least any man should boast. You just dont get it-one sin, is enough to erase all our good works and damn us to hell-so if we are judged by our works, which if we havent accepted Christ on this earth, we will be, then we will spend eternity in hell. The Bible is clear on that.

I agree. It seems while we have taken time to explain Scripture to you... You will not listen or cannot understand 7angel.

Edited October 8, 2012 by GoldenEagle

[7angel]

Your missing the point 7angel-you and I, we cannot condemn anyone. We condemn ourselves. Yes, God is a merciful God, the most merciful out there-but unless you accept that mercy, you are going to hell. Period. thats what the Bible says, thats what God says, And unless you can find scripture to back that up, then this discussion is over. You may want to sit here and call God a liar-but in the end, Im not, because no matter what you and me say, what God says goes.

But you said and agree, believe in eternal punishment without the possibility of exit,

This thought makes God a God without mercy

You have a skewed view of Gods mercy. God gives mercy to everyone until the day they die, then their fate is sealed. Nobody knows if another person is saved. Only God knows.

What do you think this passage means?

Revelation 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 11 / 15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

.

(1) This vision represents the end of the world is not bad news

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books..

(2) The Bible is a book whose words judge us all, good and evil are written to be known, the two paths, - of which we choose one, if we choose the path of God, we live, the other leads to the second death is hell, why second death? - This life is the first death, the second is coming if we choose evil, death means "resurrection, that is, the second death means resurrection second, because we did not test the first.

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.

(3) In fact we are all dead, just a matter of time, those who pass the test of life, we are the first to be resurrected, those who fail are those of Hades or Sheol, that is, those of the second death. also raised, but more pain.

And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

(4) Death and Hades "- were thrown into the lake of fire, how do you understand? - What is thrown into the lake of fire is not the man, but what dwells in man, death and sin, which does not is written in the book, only God knows, we can not know because it is not written

I am not sure whom this reply is to, but since I am the last on you quoted, I will assume it is toward me, since you did not mention anyone, or post, in particular.

1. It all depends on if you are saved or not, if it is bad news or not. To the saved, this is the day we have waited for!

2. Death mean just that, death. Resurrection means living again. They do not have the same meaning.

Death

G2288

thanatos

1)

the death of the body

a)

that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which the life on earth is ended

b)

with the implied idea of future misery in hell

1)

the power of death

c)

since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived as being very dark, it is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness i.e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin

2)

metaph., the loss of that life which alone is worthy of the name,

a)

the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell

3)

the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell

4)

in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell

3. The first resurrection is found in Revelation 20:4-7, which is not Great White Throne Judgment, but 1000 years prior.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then

I saw

the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received

his

mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This

is

the first resurrection. Blessed and holy

is

he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

4. Let's read what the word tells us about whether or not man is cast into the Lake of Fire or not:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is

the Book

of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire

. This is the second death.

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It seems that anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire, so your understanding is flawed.

In Greek mythology, Thanatos (Greek: Θάνατος (Thánatos), "Death,"[1] from θνῄσκω - thnēskō, "to die, be dying"[2]) was the daemon personification of death. He was a minor figure in Greek mythology, often referred to but rarely appearing in person.

This is Greek mythology, nothing to do with the subject at hand

[OneLight]

Your missing the point 7angel-you and I, we cannot condemn anyone. We condemn ourselves. Yes, God is a merciful God, the most merciful out there-but unless you accept that mercy, you are going to hell. Period. thats what the Bible says, thats what God says, And unless you can find scripture to back that up, then this discussion is over. You may want to sit here and call God a liar-but in the end, Im not, because no matter what you and me say, what God says goes.

But you said and agree, believe in eternal punishment without the possibility of exit,

This thought makes God a God without mercy

You have a skewed view of Gods mercy. God gives mercy to everyone until the day they die, then their fate is sealed. Nobody knows if another person is saved. Only God knows.

What do you think this passage means?

Revelation 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 11 / 15

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

.

(1) This vision represents the end of the world is not bad news

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books..

(2) The Bible is a book whose words judge us all, good and evil are written to be known, the two paths, - of which we choose one, if we choose the path of God, we live, the other leads to the second death is hell, why second death? - This life is the first death, the second is coming if we choose evil, death means "resurrection, that is, the second death means resurrection second, because we did not test the first.

The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them.

(3) In fact we are all dead, just a matter of time, those who pass the test of life, we are the first to be resurrected, those who fail are those of Hades or Sheol, that is, those of the second death. also raised, but more pain.

And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

(4) Death and Hades "- were thrown into the lake of fire, how do you understand? - What is thrown into the lake of fire is not the man, but what dwells in man, death and sin, which does not is written in the book, only God knows, we can not know because it is not written

I am not sure whom this reply is to, but since I am the last on you quoted, I will assume it is toward me, since you did not mention anyone, or post, in particular.

1. It all depends on if you are saved or not, if it is bad news or not. To the saved, this is the day we have waited for!

2. Death mean just that, death. Resurrection means living again. They do not have the same meaning.

Death

G2288

thanatos

1)

the death of the body

a)

that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul and the body by which the life on earth is ended

b)

with the implied idea of future misery in hell

1)

the power of death

c)

since the nether world, the abode of the dead, was conceived as being very dark, it is equivalent to the region of thickest darkness i.e. figuratively, a region enveloped in the darkness of ignorance and sin

2)

metaph., the loss of that life which alone is worthy of the name,

a)

the misery of the soul arising from sin, which begins on earth but lasts and increases after the death of the body in hell

3)

the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell

4)

in the widest sense, death comprising all the miseries arising from sin, as well physical death as the loss of a life consecrated to God and blessed in him on earth, to be followed by wretchedness in hell

3. The first resurrection is found in Revelation 20:4-7, which is not Great White Throne Judgment, but 1000 years prior.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then

I saw

the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received

his

mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This

is

the first resurrection. Blessed and holy

is

he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

4. Let's read what the word tells us about whether or not man is cast into the Lake of Fire or not:

Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is

the Book

of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire

. This is the second death.

And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

It seems that anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire, so your understanding is flawed.

In Greek mythology, Thanatos (Greek: Θάνατος (Thánatos), "Death,"[1] from θνῄσκω - thnēskō, "to die, be dying"[2]) was the daemon personification of death. He was a minor figure in Greek mythology, often referred to but rarely appearing in person.

This is Greek mythology, nothing to do with the subject at hand

Sorry, but you are wrong. That is from Strong's Concordance, which is a simple explanation of biblical terms.

You can check for yourself, which I do encourage you to do.

Death, as used in Revelation: Death

G2288 , which is the numbering system Strong uses.

I encourage you to use these tools, even bookmark them.