Israel's Promise and Being Grafted In...

[nebula]

Another problem may be due to misunderstanding what "chosen" means.

Right. To borrow a quote -

"But Anakin Skywalker was the "chosen one", and look at what happened to him!"

Being "chosen" isn't always the best place to be.

[Guest ninhao]

I. First what is a Biblical Covenant?

A Biblical Covenant is an agreement between God and humanity recorded in the text of the Bible. [ /quote]

II. Second what are the three primary Covenants in the Bible?

A. Abrahamic Covenant: – Gen. 12, 15, & 17 (New Covenant)

1. Who was it given to?

Exclusively to Abraham and his descendents through Jesse (Is. 11:1-2). All the families of the earth would be blessed by this covenant. (Gen. 12:3)

2. What was the promise?

God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth.

Gen. 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,

From your family

And from your father’s house,

To a land that I will show you.

² I will make you a great nation;

I will bless you

And make your name great;

And you shall be a blessing.

³ I will bless those who bless you,

And I will curse him who curses you;

And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

It is important to note that this covenant was unconditional. It is explained that Abraham was looking for a better, heavenly land who’s builder is God. (Heb 11:8-16) This seed was Jesus Christ. (Gal. 3:16)

3. To who or did/does the promise apply?

All of Abraham’s descendents and those adopted as children of Abraham into God’s family through the price paid at the cross Jesus Christ and His resurrection. (Gen. 17:17, Gal. 3:7, 26-29)

4. How long would it last?

It is an everlasting covenant. (Gen. 13:15) It is not replaced by any later covenant. (Gen. 17:17) It was to replace the Mosaic Covenant. (Heb. 8:13)

5. Who was the mediator between God and Mankind?

Jesus. (Gal. 3:7, 1 Tim. 2:5)

6. How does it work?

Again, this New Covenant could not be broken and was unconditional. The focus is on God’s grace and mercy. Make no mistake – salvation is absolutely free to mankind (John 3:16) but extremely costly to God (1 Jo. 4:9, Rom. 5:8 - His Son Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross). Abraham accepted by faith God’s promise. So this covenant is based on faith in God’s promises. "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.” (Gen. 15:6) Jesus Christ who was Messiah foretold (Gen. 12:3, Dan. 7:13, Is. 7:14, Is. 9:6) in the OT died for all people that all should no longer live for themselves but for God through Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 5:14-15) God revealed that those who Believed in Jesus Christ would be grafted into the promise made to Israel. (Rom. 1:16) The Uncircumcised (Gentiles - (Eph 2: 11) are now a part of the Circumcision (God’s chosen people of promise - Israel) through Christ’s atonement sacrifice of blood (and his life) for our sins at the cross (Eph 2: 13).

Jesus didn’t abolish the law but instead to fulfill the law. When Christ gave the summary of the law (Matt. 22:36-40), Jesus didn't do away with it. Jesus said specifically that on all the rest of law and the prophets depend on the two great commandments (Love God, Love people). He got to the heart of the issue - motivation and inner transformation. (Rom. 12:2)

Matt. 5:17

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

7. What is the sign of this covenant?

Circumcision was the outward sign of Israel (Gen. 17:10) but physical circumcision had to be matched with circumcision of the heart or the internal sign. (Deut. 30:6, Jer. 4:4) Christians lives are the testimony to God’s grace – a sweet aroma or fragrance of gratefulness to God. (2 Cor. 2:15) Jesus Christ’s sacrificial love is the standard. (Matt. 22:36-40 - Love God, Love people; John 15:13; 1 Cor. 13)

Hello GE,

It is also interesting that only God "signed" the Abrahamic covenant in a ceremony that resembles an oath in blood where the party that breaks it will forfeit his life. I think this is correct. So basically God staked His life on this covenant and we know this is the strongest possible seal.

Gen 15:12-17 KJV And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. (13) And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; (14) And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. (15) And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. (16) But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. (17) And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

God swore this covenant upon Himself.

Heb 6:13 KJV For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

[GoldenEagle]

All:

I think a key distinction to make in this thread is everything exists for God. Not the other way around. The Church exists to bring honor to God. Israel exists to bring honor to God. Do you agree?

We are not the main character in God’s play of history, present, and future. God is the main character. Do you agree?

God bless,

GE

You are exactly right. Another problem may be due to misunderstanding what "chosen" means. Some people think chosen means "favorite." The use of chosen in regard to Israel means that they are selected to fulfill a purpose, namely to be a light to the world. They will fulfill that purpose before it's all over.

I agree Shiloh. God's not done with Israel yet. Chosen doesn't necessarily mean favorite.

Yes, and that's the problem with RT. The focus is on the Church.

I agree Matthitjah. We should keep our focus on God and His glory. Not on the Bride of Christ.

[GoldenEagle]

Another problem may be due to misunderstanding what "chosen" means.

Right. To borrow a quote -

"But Anakin Skywalker was the "chosen one", and look at what happened to him!"

Being "chosen" isn't always the best place to be.

Lol too funny Neb.

[GoldenEagle]

Hello GE,

It is also interesting that only God "signed" the Abrahamic covenant in a ceremony that resembles an oath in blood where the party that breaks it will forfeit his life. I think this is correct. So basically God staked His life on this covenant and we know this is the strongest possible seal.

Gen 15:12-17 KJV And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him. (13) And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years; (14) And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance. (15) And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age. (16) But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. (17) And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

God swore this covenant upon Himself.

Heb 6:13 KJV For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,

True Ninhao. God swore the covenant upon Himself. And yet God gave his firstborn for the redemption of humanity. Amazing love isn't it?

Great thoughts and additions!

God bless,

GE

[larryt]

If other people would like to comment Larry there is really no reason to stop them. This is a discussion thread open to anyone after all. But I see your point. There is no rule that states that one must reply to others comments. So… Here we go.

1. Let’s start at the beginning. How do we define a Covenant? What are the Covenants that God has established?

2. How do we define what is a promise? We know God fulfills but does God break His promises?

3. Replacement Theology: The concept that the Church (Body of Christ) has replaced Israel. There is a specific thread about this here where shiloh357 explains it a lot better I believe than I could:

Coming back to the beginning and your question on covenants and promises. I would like to know what you think I already know what shiloh thinks on this and if he can restrain himself and let you answer for yourself I would appreciate it.

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.

Grace & Peace

LT

I'm glad we revisited this LarryT. To answer the question in bold we need to know what we're talking about - terms must be defined. It seems apparent to me that I'm going to anwer my own questions... So what do I think? First what are Covenants?

The Three Covenants I will mention that are relevant to our discussion...

I. First what is a Biblical Covenant?

A Biblical Covenant is an agreement between God and humanity recorded in the text of the Bible.

II. Second what are the three primary Covenants in the Bible?

A. Abrahamic Covenant: – Gen. 12, 15, & 17 (New Covenant)

1. Who was it given to?

Exclusively to Abraham and his descendents through Jesse (Is. 11:1-2). All the families of the earth would be blessed by this covenant. (Gen. 12:3)

2. What was the promise?

God promised to Abraham a land, a great nation, a great name, and a blessing that would include all the families of the earth.

Gen. 12:1-3

Now the Lord had said to Abram:

“Get out of your country,

From your family

And from your father’s house,

To a land that I will show you.

² I will make you a great nation;

I will bless you

And make your name great;

And you shall be a blessing.

³ I will bless those who bless you,

And I will curse him who curses you;

And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

It is important to note that this covenant was unconditional. It is explained that Abraham was looking for a better, heavenly land who’s builder is God. (Heb 11:8-16) This seed was Jesus Christ. (Gal. 3:16)

3. To who or did/does the promise apply?

All of Abraham’s descendents and those adopted as children of Abraham into God’s family through the price paid at the cross Jesus Christ and His resurrection. (Gen. 17:17, Gal. 3:7, 26-29)

4. How long would it last?

It is an everlasting covenant. (Gen. 13:15) It is not replaced by any later covenant. (Gen. 17:17) It was to replace the Mosaic Covenant. (Heb. 8:13)

5. Who was the mediator between God and Mankind?

Jesus. (Gal. 3:7, 1 Tim. 2:5)

6. How does it work?

Again, this New Covenant could not be broken and was unconditional. The focus is on God’s grace and mercy. Make no mistake – salvation is absolutely free to mankind (John 3:16) but extremely costly to God (1 Jo. 4:9, Rom. 5:8 - His Son Jesus Christ’s sacrifice on the cross). Abraham accepted by faith God’s promise. So this covenant is based on faith in God’s promises. "Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness.” (Gen. 15:6) Jesus Christ who was Messiah foretold (Gen. 12:3, Dan. 7:13, Is. 7:14, Is. 9:6) in the OT died for all people that all should no longer live for themselves but for God through Jesus Christ. (2 Cor. 5:14-15) God revealed that those who Believed in Jesus Christ would be grafted into the promise made to Israel. (Rom. 1:16) The Uncircumcised (Gentiles - (Eph 2: 11) are now a part of the Circumcision (God’s chosen people of promise - Israel) through Christ’s atonement sacrifice of blood (and his life) for our sins at the cross (Eph 2: 13).

Jesus didn’t abolish the law but instead to fulfill the law. When Christ gave the summary of the law (Matt. 22:36-40), Jesus didn't do away with it. Jesus said specifically that on all the rest of law and the prophets depend on the two great commandments (Love God, Love people). He got to the heart of the issue - motivation and inner transformation. (Rom. 12:2)

Matt. 5:17

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

7. What is the sign of this covenant?

Circumcision was the outward sign of Israel (Gen. 17:10) but physical circumcision had to be matched with circumcision of the heart or the internal sign. (Deut. 30:6, Jer. 4:4) Christians lives are the testimony to God’s grace – a sweet aroma or fragrance of gratefulness to God. (2 Cor. 2:15) Jesus Christ’s sacrificial love is the standard. (Matt. 22:36-40 - Love God, Love people; John 15:13; 1 Cor. 13)

B. Mosaic Covenant: Exodus 19-24 (Old Covenant)

1. Who was it given to?

Moses and the children of Israel at Mt. Sinai. (Ex. 19:2)

2. What was the promise?

This covenant is a conditional (If Israel obeyed, then God would bless them) covenant.

“Then Moses went up to God, and the LORD called to him from the mountain and said, “This is what you are to say to the descendants of Jacob and what you are to tell the people of Israel: ‘You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. 5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.” (Ex. 19:3-6)

3. To who does or did the promise apply?

This applied to the people of Israel. (Ex. 19:3-4)

4. How long would it last?

The Mosaic Covenant was a temporary, conditional covenant (Ex. 19:5-6), and was broken by Israel. The Mosaic Covenant was to end with the coming of the Messiah. This covenant was completed in and through Jesus Christ. (Lev 6:1-39, Deut. 28, Mal. 3:5.)

5. Who was the mediator between God and Mankind?

Moses. (Ex. 19:3-4) Moses says “We will do it all.” (Ex. 19:8)

6. How does it or did it work?

This Mosaic Covenant was to end with Christ. (Heb. 8:13) The focus is on God’s holiness (A consuming fire – Ex. 24:17) and mankind’s need of a true mediator in Messiah – Jesus Christ. Moses was the mediator between God and mankind. Israel was to obey all the law as set forth in the 10 commandments on tablets of stone. (Ex. 24:17) Moses was delayed so the people fell into idolatry by making a golden calf to worship. (Ex. 32:1-6) Moses broke the first tablets when he got mad at Israel for following after idols. (Ex. 32:19-20) Moses goes back up to Mt. Sinai so God can write His laws upon the tablets of stone. (Ex. 34:1-2)

The Mosaic covenant was ratified as Moses recounted the law, people said “we’ll obey,” built an alter, set up 12 pillars, sacrificed to God, the covenant was read, the people again say “we’ll obey,” Moses sprinkles blood on the book and the people, there was a Mosaic covenant meal, and then the people went up. (Ex. 24:3-8)

7. What is the sign of this covenant?

Circumcision was the outward sign of Israel. (Gen. 17:10) The Law of the 10 Commandments was the standard.

C. Covenant To Israel:

(See the first 3 posts to this thread. )

Your thoughts on the covenants? Did I miss something?

God bless,

GE

You defined the covenants well but my question was about being fulfilled.

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.

[GoldenEagle]

You defined the covenants well but my question was about being fulfilled.

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.

The Mosaic Covenant ended with Jesus Christ. Mankind could not save itself or fulfill the law. We were in need of a Savior.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the Abrahamic Covenant as salvation to the world. God is gathering to Himself His people for His glory. This Covenant shows that God is the Pursuer of souls, Lover of mankind, Savior of the world, Redeemer, and Righteous Judge. - all for the glory and honor of His name.

I'm unsure about the Covenant to Israel to be honest... I don't believe that Jesus Christ has finalized His work with Israel (Rom. 11). There are still many Jews that will come to know Christ IMO before He returns. I would need to study this further. Anyone else have any insight into this?

Your thoughts Larry?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

PS - See this site for more: http://www.hebrew4ch...ael/israel.html

This graph gives us a good picture of where Jews and Gentiles relate to the Church. Grafted-in Gentiles and Remnant Jews are saved by Jesus Christ and therefor part of the Church. Ethnic Jews are ethnic Israel and Gentiles are the rest of those who are not saved.

Picture of grafting...

God bless,

GE

[Matthitjah]

Ninhao's answer supplies some of the answer.

Christ's work is complete in it's Justification before God but we are not complete in Sanctification and God is not complete in His work within the Body. There will be many who join even in this late hour right up to the consummation.

The fufillment of the Promise again was threefold;

Natural (Israel)

Spiritual (Christ)

Physical (Nations like Ishamael)

God has placed all three under Christ's Reign. That means that there is a fulfillment of all three aspects that has to be met in Christ.

We read all through the Bible that Natural Israel is fulfilled in possession of the Land. However, tied to that is the Spiritual renewal as has already been shown. There is also an aspect of Christ receiving the inheritence of the Physical Nations. He already Judicially owns them it, but has yet to take full possession of them.

Here's an idea of what that will look like;

Re 11:15

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdom of this world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever.

One further note. The table of the Nations is set according to the number of children of Israel;

De 32:8

When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

De 32:9

For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.

Peace,

Dave

[nebula]

Question: Are all, and I do mean all, the promises and covenants fulfilled in Jesus Christ? Yes or no will suffice.

Was the Covenant with Noah ("the waters shall never again become a flood to destroy all flesh. ") fulfilled?