50 States Filed For Secession

[ayin jade]

I swore an oath to defend the country against all enemies, foreign and domestic. What could be a bigger enemy that a traitor?

The country or the constitution?

I believe what the obama administration is doing to this country is traitorous.

would you mind listing the actions he has taken that you view as traitorous?

Would it make a difference? You do not view his actions that way. Is it worth it to spend time making a long post detailing why I feel this way only to have you dismiss my words?

As pat said, what happened in libya is one such action alone.

[nebula]

Gator, I was contemplating this late last night, and I as I considered your posts, it seems to me as if you are taking the issue personally. Why? If you believe thee petitions will fizzle into nothingness, why get angry? Why not just roll your eyes and ignore the folly?

[OneLight]

This is indeed a slippery slope. Some of the reasons the 2nd Amendment was created is for

• deterring a tyrannical government;
  
• repelling invasion from anyone, including from the inside;
  
• suppressing anarchy;
  
• the right of self-defense;
  
• enabling the people to organize a militia system
  

Many see the Obama policies as being tyrannical in nature, changing the US to an extreme that they are not comfortable with. Many also see that by including those who support the Sharia Law being included in the Government, Obama is indeed changing the US from the inside.

[OneLight]

This is indeed a slippery slope. Some of the reasons the 2nd Amendment was created is for

• deterring a tyrannical government;
  
• repelling invasion from anyone, including from the inside;
  
• suppressing anarchy;
  
• the right of self-defense;
  
• enabling the people to organize a militia system
  

Many see the Obama policies as being tyrannical in nature, changing the US to an extreme that they are not comfortable with. Many also see that by including those who support the Sharia Law being included in the Government, Obama is indeed changing the US from the inside.

who in the Fed Govt supports Sharia Law being included in our laws?

and I also have to ask, that in a country that is set up the way that our is, if the Bible is used as a basis for our laws, does that not also open the door for other religious text to also be used?

At one time, I believe it was Mao who claimed that he need to do nothing to destroy our nation, that we will destroy ourselves from the inside. By admitting those who follow the Sharia Laws into office, this would be the first step in opening the discussion just by allowing them to hold office. Let me ask you this. If you knew someone was a thief, would you open your doors and let them into your house giving them access to all you have? Sharia Law and the Constitution are much at odds with each other, both being a foundation of how to run a nation. Are you led by your beliefs or do you leave them at the door?

Freedom of religion in a cultural setting is what is allowed, not as a ruling body like Sharia Law dictates. You cannot mix the two.

[SavedByGrace1981]

Gator, I was contemplating this late last night, and I as I considered your posts, it seems to me as if you are taking the issue personally. Why? If you believe thee petitions will fizzle into nothingness, why get angry? Why not just roll your eyes and ignore the folly?

That is a good question, and I guess because this sort of thing is just a snap shot of what is wrong with our country. I would say it has come down to "my way or the highway" for most people, but that does not even get to the heart of the matter, it is deeper than that.

We have been split along party lines and that is all that matters. We have smart, intelligent people that are so taken in by the rhetoric that they seem check their brain at the door when it comes to this sort of thing. All that matters is the (D) or the ® next to the name of the person in question.

The truth of the matter is that the actions of the Repubs and the Dems are not all that different, all that is different are the words, but that seems to be enough for more and more people on both sides. I am on another forum that has a left lean to it and the far left on there are mirror images of the far right people on here. Our country is going down the tubes and we are too busy fighting each other to do anything about it, which is just the way the people in DC want it to be.

Look at the few post above by Butero. He and I have had many discussions and he is a highly intelligent person, so why is he so blinded in this area. Obama has done nothing that is not a continuation of the previous administration. But somehow I dont recall Butero speaking of GWB this way. And why not, because GWB has a ® by his name and Obama has a (D).

Also to be honest the ignorance of what an actual succession would mean and entails bothers me. If you are going to call for something, you better understand the consequences. Are these people ready to have armed guards on the borders of states controlling who goes from one to the next? Will they have to get a visa to go and visit their family members still living in the US. What happens to the interstate highways? Are we going to cut all power lines and utilities that cross state lines of the states that are now enemies of the US?

People today vote on one or two social issues, and nothing else matters. This is not the way to run a country, but it is what we do. Somebody says they are against abortion and gay marriage it does not matter that they are completely liberal in their fiscal policies, those on the right will vote for them anyway, and then complain when we are stuck with what they voted for.

And finally, our system was built on compromise, it will not work without it, it cannot work without it and our country will fail without it. But neither of the far left or the far right radicals want compromise. Above Butero said he wants nothing but gridlock till OBama is out of office. Then what? We get another GWB and all will be good? Or will the Dems then refuse to compromise till their person is back in office and nothing will ever get done.

Right now the party is more important than the country, the post above bear that out. Till we can get past this we are doomed to failure.

So yea, I take it personally because I didnt give 20 years of my adult life to see our country torn apart from the inside by people who have to have it their way or no way at all. I served my country to leave my children a better place to live, and the radicals on both sides are ruining our country, and they are proud to be doing so.

Well stated, Gator - you've made a cogent case for your point of view. And, if it applied to 1996, 2000, or 2004, I would agree with it about 90 percent.

I took the liberty of highlighting a statement from your post, and that is what I would like to focus on.

What I see in Obama and the current crop of democrats running the country is something that I've never seen in my previous study of US politics. Now, I'm going to state my case. I don't expect you to agree with it - but I present it here in the hopes that you may begin to understand a different point of view (mine, and perhaps shared by others.)

Obama does not like the US Constitution. Our founding document - the basis for our laws. I know that's a provocative statement in and of itself, but I've seen and heard enough evidence to convince me it is true.

To me, someone holding that view is disqualified for any Federal office - especially the office of President. Obviously others do not see it that way, so here we are.

I believe we are experiencing an unprecidented level of corruption in the country. The likes of which we've never seen. I first saw that with the passage of Obamacare, especially the way it was done. Open bribes to senators. Changing the rules of the Senate. No attempt at bi-partisanship at all.

Then it was passed, and some of us held out hope that this OBVIOUSLY un-Constutional monstrosity would be overturned. We waited, and waited. Finally, it came down to one man on the Supreme Court. And we all know what happened.

This is where I am really going to go out on a limb (you can call me a nutcase if you want), but I believe (and I will continue to believe to my dying day) that Supreme Court Justice John Roberts was somehow forced to vote the way he did. Of course I have no proof of this ('cuz I'd probably be dead if did), but very powerful forces DECIDED we would have socialized medicine - and socialized medicine we shall have.

Now I don't really want to get off topic and onto the subject of Obamacare - other than to say I believe that is a huge part of where we are now.

I don't have time to post all I wanted to say, but I'd like to leave you with this: I am a policial conservaive (more accurately, a small L libertarian). You are a political liberal. I don't know you, obviously, but I'd venture to guess you are a good, honorable man who loves his country.

I've lived a long time and seen many presidential elections. I've never been a political liberal, but there were liberals on the national stage I could admire. Hubert Humphrey was one - a good, decent man who I truly believe loved his country (over his party). Harry Truman (before my time) was a liberal, but again - an honorable man. Jimmy Carter - by most accounts, a failed president. But a liberal and, I believe, a good and honorable man.

I honestly don't see that today in the democrat/liberals that are on the national stage. Chuck Schumer? Harry Reid? Nancy Pelosi?

To me, these seem to be polital hacks that should have never risen above the office of dog catcher. I just don't see any good, honorable people on the "liberal" side.

Blessings!

-Ed

[The_Patriot21]

I dont think its a mistake at all-his actions show a complete disregard for it. The mistake is calling it a "living document" no its not a living document, its a document that preserves our rights, and our freedoms-you start changing it, and we lost those-viewing it as a "living document" is in itself, a complete disregarde and dislike of it. And Obamacare is socialized medicine-have you actually compared it to health care systems in say, Russian for instance? until you do, dont say that its not.

[OneLight]

At one time, I believe it was Mao who claimed that he need to do nothing to destroy our nation, that we will destroy ourselves from the inside. By admitting those who follow the Sharia Laws into office, this would be the first step in opening the discussion just by allowing them to hold office. Let me ask you this. If you knew someone was a thief, would you open your doors and let them into your house giving them access to all you have? Sharia Law and the Constitution are much at odds with each other, both being a foundation of how to run a nation. Are you led by your beliefs or do you leave them at the door?

Freedom of religion in a cultural setting is what is allowed, not as a ruling body like Sharia Law dictates. You cannot mix the two.

Without a doubt we will fall from the inside just like all great empires.

I agree that Sharia Law should not be included in our laws. But again, if you fight to base our laws on the Bible, you cannot then complain when other religious text are used as well. Well, you can complain, but it will fall on dear ears.

who in the Fed Govt supports Sharia Law being included in our laws?

I have not said anyone has come out in support of Sharia Law, but that the Obama administration have included those who are devout Muslims to hold office inside out Government, those who strictly follow Sharia. The question is, when will they try to implement their foundation into our government? Be assured that they do not leave their faith at the door when they go to work.

As for backing our constitution with scripture, it was founded on scriptural basis and should be upheld as such. Allowing one to live their life in private according to their belief is a far stretch from allowing them to change the US by their beliefs. We were who we were and it is time to return to who we were and stop allowing every whim and doctrine to change us. Being a melting pot of the world is based on a standard that did not include the US to become like those who move here, but for them to live freely in a country that does not hinder their personal beliefs, as long as their beliefs do not go against our laws. They chose to move here to be free from the oppression they were living in, and they willingly accepted our outstretched hand. The problem is, once they are here, they want to change us to be like them instead of accepting the freedom as it stands. This is wrong.

[ayin jade]

Would it make a difference? You do not view his actions that way. Is it worth it to spend time making a long post detailing why I feel this way only to have you dismiss my words?

As pat said, what happened in libya is one such action alone.

I think it always helps to be able to support accusations that are made.

I have in other threads. I do not really wish to spend time chasing down facts in order to prove my assertions to you when I do not see that it would make a difference. I have much better things to do with my time.

I have over the last few years seen obama say and do things that are traitorous. I do not believe he has the best interests of this country at heart. I am not a republican so I have no political axe to grind. I view politicians individually not as a party.

[bornagain2011]

Why should we not let muslims practice their religion in our white house? Does 'death to infedels' mean anything to you? And there is a HUGE difference between a satanic cult and the True faith of Jesus Christ, which teaches to love our enemies and pray for those hurting us.

The muslims HATE this country, they think of us the same way Israel thought of other villages in the old testament, muslims believe we are a godless country with no morals just like Sodom in the Bible....and yes they are right, except for the true remnant of God fearing bornagain believers.

[SavedByGrace1981]

Thanks for the well thought out reply. I think it is a mistake to say that Obama does not like the Constitution. He views it as a "living" document. It is a view that many people hold. I am sort of torn on it personally. Times change and our country and it's laws need to change also, and they have at least 17 times.

With all due respect, I think you are wrong here. While it's accurate to say liberals have believed the Constitution is a "living document" for years - (that's how Justice Blackmun in 1973 found "emanations" and "pernumbras" to manufacture a "right" to abortion where obviously one did not exist) - I believe Barack Obama's beliefs go far beyond that.

The signs were there- way even before the 2008 election - if anyone took the time to look for them.

I agree with the first part 100%, but I think it extends to both parties equally. ObamaCare is a weak, watered down version of what Obama wanted. To me ObamaCare was Obama's greatest failure as a leader. He wasted his time and his political capital and didn’t get what he wanted.

Again, I have to respectfully disagree here, and here's why. While it's true that he might not have gotten 100 percent of what he wanted THEN (look at all the deals and bribes they had to pull to get what they eventually got), he knows with certitude that government entitlements - once created - never not only go away, but become bigger, bigger and even bigger and more intrusive

Look at Social Security. Look at Medicare.

Obama's GOAL is a government run, single payer health care system. It was in 2003, and there is no evidence to suggest it does not remain so today. He is just willing to implement it incrementally.

I am not beyond believing this could be true. But we do not have socialized medicine yet. we might, but ObamaCare is not it.

Again, see my response above.

I really am not a political liberal, and most liberals I know would be mad that you associated me with them. If there is a label that comes close to me it is a "conservatarian". The smaller the Govt the better in my opinion. I would like to know what ideas I have put forth that make you label me as a Liberal.

I do apologize for referring to you as a political liberal if you indeed are not one. When I wrote what I did this morning, the second cup of coffee had not fully kicked in and perhaps I was guilty of running a lot of poster's thoughts together in my mind.

But just so you understand - I can respect someone's political viewpoints - even when they differ from my own. The only thing I cannot respect is when I perceive someone is mouthing "talking points" which are not their own. For when you did deeper, they cannot support or defend their beliefs. And yes, you DO see that on both sides.

I agree 100% on this with the liberals, but I also see the exact same thing on the conservative side. Boehner, Romney, Bachmann, even McCain. As far as I can tell there are no good, honorable people in Washington at all. And in my opinion the reason for that is that both parties know that roughly 40% of the country will vote for them no matter what they do. Nobody is held accountable because we are too busy hating on the other party to ever think about voting for them.

I don't QUITE agree there is no one on the conservative side who I consider good or honorable (although I might agree that there are too few). You mentioned Michelle Bachmann - what has she said or done that you believe is not honorable? I would have enthusiastilly supported her candidacy if she had become the nominee - as far as I can tell, she is for Constitutionally limited government and conservative principles.

The icing on the cake re: Bachmann? The GOP establishment hates her, too. They literally provided NO support for her congressional campaign (I think they would have been happier if her opponent won). That fact alone makes her A-OK in my book.

Rick Santorum, too, is an honorable man.

But I see we've wandered way far afield from the OP. I'll take most of the blame for that. Let me try to get us back with this one concluding thought:

The secession movement that we are seeing represents boiled over frustration. Yes, I agree - it is not going to "go anywhere." But there are people who are truly, deeply frustrated and do not know what to do. You may not agree - and that's fine - but I see the country has passed a "tipping point" - with the level of corruption (In the media, in the Federal Government, and even most state governments)

I do not see "voting" as a viable alternative anymore. THAT is the frustration I feel - and I'm sure others share.

Am I going to "do anything" about it? (Laughing). No, I'm too old, and I've never been able to handle any kind of firearm (although I'm a firm believer in the 2nd Amendment). I suspect few others - beyond whining and moaning on the internet - will "do anything", either.

Perhaps this is what it looks like when a civilization (country) implodes?

Sadly, however, there likely will be those who DO "do something". Do I think there might be violence? It is a distinct possibility.

So me - I'm going to pray harder than ever - and try to draw ever closer to God. I want to discern what His will is in all this.

All Christians (both politically liberal and politically conservative ones) should do the same.

Blessings!

-Ed