Why we observed Sunday as the Sabbath?

[AnotherTraveler]

This might be way off the mark on this thread, but I hope not.

The sabbath was made for man.

I personally can tell you that for me Sunday is a work day, and every minister of the gospel that serves on Sunday will tell you the same. I need a "sabbath" day, and often it is Saturday or Monday, but too many times it is a good idea that did not happen.

Ask any mother that has to get the family up and fed and dressed and to church on time (and often also teaches Sunday school) if she feels like Sunday is a day of rest. (To say nothing about Sunday dinner expectations.)

(Mark 2:27 KJV) And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

I am not an observer of certain days, as I feel that everyday is a good day to love the Lord, but I really have enjoyed this thread.

[Guest yod]

so you are in the ministry AT? That explains a lot! Have I told you lately that I love you???

I move equally in both worlds, hebraic and hellenistic. I go to church usually because my wife and I have found a good AoG church that has a lot of programs for all ages of kids.

But I have spent most of my walk in messianic congregations because I find the jewish teachers to have a deeper understanding of the Torah...which is the foundation of the New Testament so they also understand and teach the hidden mysteries of Messiah better overall.

I love the WHOLE church! And I've been on both sides of the Sabbath debate since before being born again....so I agree with Paul that we should let no man judge us in our observance of days because, after all, our outward rituals, traditions, and observances aren't what is of primary importance.

That is not to say that they aren't important at all....but that is not the "fast" the Lord wants from us.

Those who go to church on Sunday and take Saturday off seem to be fulfilling the legal requirements of the law better than any other "method" but so what? Will we say that is our justification for acceptance into the Kingdom?

Those who honor the ancient Sabbath experience (not in a legalistic SDA way) something that Sunday church-goers will never know. There simply isn't a way to explain it. The church would do well to grasp the idea of a day of rest and community.

Either way....we all live to the Lord and He alone is the judge.

But then there are also facts which remain factual regarding how the church began meeting on Sunday. It is not a biblical concept. I'm only interested in knowing the truth so there are no holy cows when it comes to this subject.

The early church would meet for a motza-shabbat service for fellowship. THIS was the first day of the week where Paul would accept an offering for the poor saints of Jerusalem. THIS was the time when Paul preached until midnight.

This was also a Saturday evening.....not a Sunday morning.

At some point in the early centuries, there arose a division between jews and gentiles in the church. An overview of the Book of Romans will show that this was probably the very reason Paul wrote the book!

And when the church finally became predominantly gentile....well....there went the neighborhood.

And a proper understanding of the Torah, the Prophets, and the literature writings was lost.

Constantine didn't necessarily "do" this but he did codify it into law.

[borntorebel]

Matthew 5:17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Let's see what else Jesus had to say here in this passage called the "Beatitudes".

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Mt. 5:21-22

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." Mt. 5:27-28.

"Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. Mt. 5:31-32.

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away. Mt. 5:38-42.

"Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" Mt. 5:43-44.

So we see here from the mouth of Jesus that He actually required a higher standard from christians. Under the old covenant, you could stare at a woman and lust after her and not commit a sin, but under the new covenant you can't even lust after a woman or you have sinned. You could be angry at your brother and, as long as you didn't kill him, you didn't commit a sin. However now, under the new covenant, it is a sin to even be angry at your brother without cause. Under the old covenant, it was ok to get revenge, but under the new covenant, we're commanded by Jesus to turn the other cheek when struck and if someone wants to take you to court to take away your shirt, give them your coat also. If you don't lust after a woman, you won't commit fornication. If you don't get angry with your brother, you won't comit murder. If you turn the other cheek, you exemplify the attitude of our Father God. The same result will be achieved in some of these, in others it has been changed, but the standard has been raised because we have the power of Jesus and His holy spirit to help us in our daily life.

If that is so then why did all of His disciples and apostles continue the observance of Sabbath and Torah? The only leg you have to stand on is Acts 15 where the leadership of the church at Jerusalem ruled that gentiles don't have to be circumcised. They did however mention some dietary rules (from the Torah) which have been omitted from classic christian theology and they also mentioned that Moses was being taught every Sabbath.

This was lost in the early church because of the enmity that arose between jews and gentiles once the church became predominantly gentile. You should see some the virulently anti-semetic things written by the early church fathers!

This passage you speak of tells us that Paul was in attendance. Let's see what else Paul has to say about this subject;

"But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of your's become a stumbling block to them that are weak." 1 Cor. 8:8-9.

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: are things are lawful for me, but all things edify not....Whatever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake. For the earth's is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof. If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake. But if any man say unto you, 'This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not FOR HIS SAKE that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof." 1 Cor. 10:23-28.

Now, was Paul an uneducated Jew? Was he a blasphemous Gentile who knew nothing of the Torah? Thankfully, he tell sus;

"that...he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, and Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ." Phillipians 3:4-7.

So we see here that Paul had no problem with Gentiles eating meat sacrificed to idols. He told them not to let their freedom in Christ be a stumbling block to those whose hearts held that (eating food sacrificed to idols) to be a sin. So then did Paul stray from the teachings of God? Did he teach blasphemous ways? No, he taught freedom in Christ, but also taught that we are to be more concerned about your brethren than our own freedoms.

May God's power and peace be with you,

Ron

Edited November 9, 2004 by borntorebel

[Guest philws]

Rom 14:5-8

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.

8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

(KJV)

[Guest yod]

So then did Paul stray from the teachings of God? Did he teach blasphemous ways? No, he taught freedom in Christ, but also taught that we are to be more concerned about your brethren than our own freedoms.

May God's power and peace be with you,

Ron

very salient point!

[Guest philws]

every day in Yashua's Word is our Sabbath !

Heb 4:1-11

1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.

6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

(KJV)

Matt 11:28-30

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

(KJV)

[AnotherTraveler]

so you are in the ministry AT? That explains a lot! Have I told you lately that I love you???

Yea, thanks, that's very nice of you to say.

And when the church finally became predominantly gentile....well....there went the neighborhood.

Well said! We did indeed manage to mangle a lot of truth over the years without our Jewish brethren to straighten out some of our ideas.

I have had to change so much in order to grasp what the scriptures really say, and I am so very aware that having held so many wrong ideas that I finally "got" and a little light broke into my thinking, that in all likelihood, I still hold many ideas that are undiscovered error and wait for the light to burst in and declare what is and what is not truth.

I used to really be worried about all these blind areas, but I realized one day that my salvation does not depend on my having all the right ideas, but on my trusting in the Lord's salvation, purchased in blood, to wash away my sin and the sin of the world.

On a seperate note, last year I went with a couple other men to a Synagogue (that sure doesn't look right to me, but I can't figure out how to spell it) and it was a very wonderful time. I met very seriously devoted people that really were both patient with my gentile ignorance and not at all judgmental about my believing in Jesus as the Christ.

I was surprised to meet a family that were Christian and also Jewish, and they are very faithful attenders there, and they are highly regarded by the others that attend there. I believe that they are in the perfect will of God to be exactly where they are, but I know others that would really have a problem with them not leaving the Synagogue and attending a Christian Assembly.

I am so thankful for Worthy! This is a very special place.

[wordsower]

Romans 14 is the end of all to this subject.

Let each be convinced in his own mind.

That leaves plenty of room for Saturday Sunday and everyday alike.

If I speak in tongues of angels and of men but have not the love of God I am nothing but a bunch of noise.

Love fulfills the law. Let's just love everybody and when we get that done lets worry about all this other non-salvific stuff.

[Guest Hebrew Hammer]

Romans 14 is the end of all to this subject.

Let each be convinced in his own mind.

That leaves plenty of room for Saturday Sunday and everyday alike.

If I speak in tongues of angels and of men but have not the love of God I am nothing but a bunch of noise.

Love fulfills the law.  Let's just love everybody and when we get that done lets worry about all this other non-salvific stuff.  

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, yet lets also understand that the Sabbath was never changed by God to Sunday as a number of groups do suggest.

The way you keep it? Well that is your bag

[wordsower]

True, yet lets also understand that the Sabbath was never changed by God to Sunday as a number of groups do suggest.

The way you keep it? Well that is your bag

Agreed. (but I haven't met anyone that said Sunday was the Sabbath except for Suzanne. ) Love ya Suz

Well, that settles that.

whew!