Did Jesus already return?

[xero]

Is this New Jerusalem?

[Sevenseas]

I don't understand why you make this point? The op is not about what makes us closer to God. Sometimes a simple answer is all that is needed.

It is in the nature of a human being to look for an answer of a particular kind. Other answers get rejected.

Look what seduced Eva? Knowledge. What Saul was looking for when enquiring Samuel? He was looking for a simple answer, despite of many answers he already had.

We do receive all the answers we need, I think. Always. Our world is built that way.

We are not waiting on Jesus. He is waiting on us. One may think he is knocking Jesus door. It is Jesus who is knocking your door. Anything that needed to be done - has been done. Anything that needed to be said - has been said. This world is about us now, waiting its destruction.

I did not say anything that you do not know. Right? I am sorry about that. I cannot give short answers, I cannot give long answers, I cannot give any answers. I can only say what we already know. All we are left to do is soften our hearts, leave them open to mercy.

I believe you may be referring to a certain well know painting when you state Jesus is knocking on the door........we actually invite Him to live inside of us by the Holy Spirit, and

once He resides in you, He is on the INSIDE and not the OUTSIDE.so, I have to disagree with what you wrote.

By the way, it's EVE not Eva....

I don't agree with your philosophical account of questions/answers or how the world is built...I find that if one does not have answers, one should either start looking or avoid telling others what

to do or a combination of both.

God definately answers, else why bother to pray. God gives us hope...He does not turn us into jaded philosophers who sound like they have more in common with Kafka then the Bible.

God tells us to SEEK AND WE WILL FIND. If a person's attitude revolves around themself, then, they will not find. I have found and so have many others

[xero]

Eve isnt even Eve her name is Chavvah in hebrew meaning life giver cause she is the mother of all living. Cue rainbow, "The more you know."

[Sevenseas]

and that's all you got? rules illustrated...thank you

[Tinky]

The Bible says every eye will see Jesus when He returns.

Look, he is coming with the clouds," and "every eye will see him, even those who pierced him"; and all peoples on earth "will mourn because of him." So shall it be! Amen." (Revelation 1:7)

I have eyes - you have eyes. Did you see Him? I didn't.

Be patient, and be at peace. He will come when the time is exactly right.

[1peterlight]

I got my revelation scriptures messed up. I was thinking that the 1000 years was 1000 more years of Satan, after he is released, but it is peace for 1000 years then he is let loose with no fixed date of time to act. This was part of my problem. I was wondering if Jesus could have came, had a peaceful stretch of time here on earth, then satan has been with us for close to the 1000 years and he could've deceived humans into believing nothing had happened yet. I knew every eye would see him, I was thinking there may've been some kind of mass deception again on satans part to just have Jesus' return and peace on earth stricken from history somehow so that we may be tested by him without knowing what has already taken place in revelation. Basically be in the 1000 years and not realize it. Only I thought it was 1000 years of satans trickery. I had to go back to revelation and re read.

[Guest]

I got my revelation scriptures messed up. I was thinking that the 1000 years was 1000 more years of Satan, after he is released, but it is peace for 1000 years then he is let loose with no fixed date of time to act. This was part of my problem. I was wondering if Jesus could have came, had a peaceful stretch of time here on earth, then satan has been with us for close to the 1000 years and he could've deceived humans into believing nothing had happened yet. I knew every eye would see him, I was thinking there may've been some kind of mass deception again on satans part to just have Jesus' return and peace on earth stricken from history somehow so that we may be tested by him without knowing what has already taken place in revelation. Basically be in the 1000 years and not realize it. Only I thought it was 1000 years of satans trickery. I had to go back to revelation and re read.

Countdown

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:1-6

To

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. Revelation 20:7-10

Judgement

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20:11-15

[before time]

My first post I have four more to go.

 

I can see from this forum we are in the millennium reign, spiritual restoration, or else the subject matter will be sports etc.

[John S]

Has Jesus Christ already returned - NO

He won't return until He ends the Tribulation - which hasn't begun yet.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, 1peterlight.

 

Matthew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

27 "For the Son of Man is going to come with His angels in the glory of His Father, and then He will reward each according to what he has done. 28 I assure you: There are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."



I can't get myself past these verses. I've tried convincing myself it could mean the transfiguration, but frankly, I feel that is a go to when hitting a brick wall. Is there any possibility we are in the 1000 years? I know there has been no time of peace. But these verses sound so immediate.

 

Gary is right about Matthew 16:27-28 referring to Matthew 17:1-13. Remember, chapter divisions in the Bible are NOT inspired, and they're fairly arbitrary, although some translators tried to keep verse and chapter divisions fairly, logically organized.

 

Consider also the other Synoptic Gospels, as well. They all three have this account:

 

 

Mark 9:1-13

1 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.

2 And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.

3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

4 And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus.

5 And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

6 For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid.

7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

8 And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

9 And as they came down from the mountain, he charged them that they should tell no man what things they had seen, till the Son of man were risen from the dead.

10 And they kept that saying with themselves, questioning one with another what the rising from the dead should mean.

11 And they asked him, saying, Why say the scribes that Elias must first come?

12 And he answered and told them, Elias verily cometh first, and restoreth all things; and how it is written of the Son of man, that he must suffer many things, and be set at nought.

13 But I say unto you, That Elias is indeed come, and they have done unto him whatsoever they listed, as it is written of him.

KJV

 

Luke 9:27-36

27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.

28 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

29 And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering.

30 And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias:

31 Who appeared in glory, and spake of his decease which he should accomplish at Jerusalem.

32 But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him.

33 And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

34 While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud.

35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

36 And when the voice was past, Jesus was found alone. And they kept it close, and told no man in those days any of those things which they had seen.

KJV

 

This vision is indeed a FORETASTE of the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom, but it was just a vision, as Gary noted, not the actual event which is still in the future.

 

Now, regarding Matthew 10:23, this is hard for most Christians to understand UNTIL, that is, the light dawns upon them! Remember, Yeshua` was BORN KING OF THE JEWS. His lineage in Matthew 1 is designed specifically to confirm His claim and legitimacy to the throne of David, and many things happened during His "ministry" (actually, during His OFFER OF THE KINGDOM TO Y'HUDAH) that cannot be understood apart from this perspective. His forerunner and herald, Yochanan the Immerser (John the Baptist), proclaims Him as the Messiah of God, and even the very miracles He performed in God's power were to authenticate His claims and His message, the gospel of the Kingdom. That's a focus on the "KINGDOM," not on the word "gospel." All "gospel" means is "good news." It is the "good news about the Kingdom!" And, what is that "good news?"

 

 

Isaiah 52:7

7 How beautiful upon the mountains are the feet of him that bringeth good tidings, that publisheth peace; that bringeth good tidings of good, that publisheth salvation; that saith unto Zion, Thy God reigneth!

KJV

 

Thus, this is the true "gospel" that both Yeshua` and His herald proclaimed!

 

Based on this information, His focus was to provide a legitimate offer of the Kingdom to Y'hudah (Judah) and to Isra'el. Now, see how this played out when Yeshua` sent out His disciples in Matthew 10:

 

 

Matthew 10:1-23

1 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner of disease.

2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach (herald), saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand (within your grasp).

8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

9 Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses,

10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.

11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, inquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.

12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.

13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

21 And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.

22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

KJV

 

Thus, this is NOT even close to being similar to the Great Commission. Their mission here, DURING OUR LORD'S OFFER OF THE KINGDOM, was ONLY to the "lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

 

What Yeshua` was saying was that He would be following them as they went from town to town, heralding the coming of the King, and that they wouldn't have covered all the towns of Isra'el before the Son of Man caught up to them! This passage was ONLY for that time period in His "ministry" and is NOT for the time after His death and resurrection!