A Philosophical Look at Hell

[ByFaithAlone]

I have a question I have been wrestling with and I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter. Hell, commonly understood, is a place of eternal separation from God which is going to be the worst possible experience that anyone can ever hope to achieve. The major philosophical problem I am running into was posed to me by a deist friend of mine who was questioning whether the idea of hell was in some manner an injustice. His argument was as follows in roughly the order of the conversation we had (this is not a logic argument and is not in proper premise-conclusion form - I realize this).

(1) God creates human race

(2) The human race is finite

(3) Through actions of their own (this is assumed as I currently am holding a Molinist position of free will), part of the human race is justly condemned to separation from God.

(4) To be just, the punishment must fit the crime

(5) Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a finite crime

(6) Even if original sin, the sins of all humanity was taking into consideration, based on (2) we would still require a finite punishment

(5) and (6) are particularly intriguing to me and have kept me thinking. I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As always, I look forward to dialogue.

Regards,

BFA

[~candice~]

The crime is not finite, where did you get that from?

A sin is committed against and infinitely perfect and holy God. How do you quantify a penalty when you offend an infinite?

[Guest]

..... I have a question I have been wrestling with and I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter. Hell, commonly understood, is a place of eternal separation from God....

Ask Jesus

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:47-48

And Leave The Rest To The Philosophers

Yea, hath God said, Genesis 3:1(c )

[gdemoss]

It all went wrong here:

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they [were] naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

The opinion was born. After that it only mattered whether people were willing to let God be the one who was right. End of story. Due to mans personal opinion, he is capable of judging God immoral for creating an eternal hell and tossing in those who refuse to see things his way.

[ayin jade]

Due to mans personal opinion, he is capable of judging God immoral for creating an eternal hell and tossing in those who refuse to see things his way.

And that judgment on the part of man would be a sin.

Read Job 40

[Guest]

God creates human race....

Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

The human race is finite....

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:20-22

Through actions of their own (this is assumed as I currently am holding a Molinist position of free will), part of the human race is justly condemned to separation from God.....

For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

To be just, the punishment must fit the crime....

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Romans 5:12

Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a finite crime....

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 6:23

Even if original sin, the sins of all humanity was taking into consideration, based on (2) we would still require a finite punishment....

And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission. It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. Hebrews 9:22-28

~

Believe

That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: John 1:9-12

Or Perish

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

So Be Wise Beloved

When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh. Matthew 2:10-11

And Be Blessed

Love, Joe

[Jayyycuuup]

I have a question I have been wrestling with and I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter. Hell, commonly understood, is a place of eternal separation from God which is going to be the worst possible experience that anyone can ever hope to achieve. The major philosophical problem I am running into was posed to me by a deist friend of mine who was questioning whether the idea of hell was in some manner an injustice. His argument was as follows in roughly the order of the conversation we had (this is not a logic argument and is not in proper premise-conclusion form - I realize this).

(1) God creates human race

(2) The human race is finite

(3) Through actions of their own (this is assumed as I currently am holding a Molinist position of free will), part of the human race is justly condemned to separation from God.

(4) To be just, the punishment must fit the crime

(5) Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a finite crime

(6) Even if original sin, the sins of all humanity was taking into consideration, based on (2) we would still require a finite punishment

(5) and (6) are particularly intriguing to me and have kept me thinking. I was wondering people's thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. As always, I look forward to dialogue.

Regards,

BFA

Maybe I am looking into this a bit too far- but something caught my attention. . . you described all these finite things- then describe our punishment as finite- do you believe in Universalism?

[Guest]

When I read the OP, my first thought was along the line of what Candice expressed. That the crime is not finite.

I can think only to add, that it might be difficult for some to accept that crime against God, is that big a deal.

Perhaps that might be more easily understood if we think about how we think about other things. I a person stood accused of pulling the wings off of a Malaria infected Mosquito, we would scarcely expect to see that person punished, for cruelty to animals, in spite of the fact, that that is what it is. If person were to kill a dog on a whim, most of us would expect some sort of punishment, but we would not expect the punishment, to rise to the same level as it would be for killing a human on a whim, see the progression?

(5) Eternal punishment is never a just punishment for a finite crime.

On point 5, I think the premise is also faulty. Humanity is not the moral arbiter of the universe, we are not in the position to pronounce what is just, and what is not, we can only pronounce what our sense of justice is, that that varies from person to person. God is the one who understands justice, our job is to accept that He is the only one who knows and dispenses justice.

We, on the other hand, are very fortunate, that God, in addition to being just, is also full of mercy and love, and because of that, some are spared justice. So the bigger question is, not wondering about those who are sent to Hell, but pondering why we do not all have to join them as we deserve.

[~candice~]

Right ome. The other thing that bugs me is what the idea of a finite sin does to the sacrifice of Christ. I believe He paid the ultimate sacrifice. But dying for the forgiveness of a finite set of sins is different to an infinite set / infinite weight of sins. Jesus had to be perfect for a reason.

[Guest ninhao]

This line of reasoning has always confused me.

A sin against an infinite God requires an infinite sentence. How does this work logically ?

Whether I hold this position or not I haven't found it logical at this stage.