Support Israel

[Guest shiloh357]

Golden Eagle I am  sorry, but  can not make any sense of your graft, but let me say this I believe all the scriptures, but do you ?

eg: 1 Timothy 2:4  do you truly believe this verse ? I do, how about this one 1 John 4:14. Do understand I believe these verses, so therefore I believe the prophecies of Isaiah eg: 52:10 ...;and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. Now think about this and then ask me a question I can answer without pages of lengthy explanation.  when I say "go figar" { figured; figuring; figures}  it means to consider ( think over) its just harmless Kiwi slang I picked up.    

 

 

The point of the grafting is that according to Romans 11 and Paul's olive tree metaphor, Gentiles are grafted into Israel (the part of Israel that has trusted in the Messiah, Jesus).   Following the metaphor Paul presents, a wild olive branch is grafted into a cultivated olive tree.   The wild olive branch doesn't become a cultivated branch.  It is simply connected to the sustenance of the cultivated olive tree.  It will produce the fruit of the tree it is grafted into.

 

Gentile believers are grafted into the cultivated Olive Tree known as "Israel."  Gentiles believers don't become Jews in any sense.  The word "Jew"  is not spiritualized in the NT.  Paul makes a sharp distinction between the wild branches and cultivated branches.  That distinction is never blurred by Paul to claim that Gentile believers have become anything different like a "spiritual Jew" or whatever.  That is something that people have tried to pencil into the text, but it is simply not there. 

[Gandalf]

God made promises to Israel, and many of those promises haven't been kept - YET. Does anyone want to hint that God doesn't keep His promises? That would be like calling God a liar. The simple truth is that God will keep all of His promises to Israel at His appointed time. God didn't confuse Israel with the Church which is the Body of Christ and made separate promises to His Church. Israel and the Church are two different entities, and the Church most obviously did NOT replace Israel. One would have to abandon large portions of the Bible to make such a claim and ignore Bible prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled - YET. Take it to the bank - God will fulfill ALL of His promises most perfectly. If you think that God is through with Israel, try reading a Bible some.

Its very straightforward: God fulfils his promises in the New Israel, the Church. There is no problem at all.

[OakWood]

 

God made promises to Israel, and many of those promises haven't been kept - YET. Does anyone want to hint that God doesn't keep His promises? That would be like calling God a liar. The simple truth is that God will keep all of His promises to Israel at His appointed time. God didn't confuse Israel with the Church which is the Body of Christ and made separate promises to His Church. Israel and the Church are two different entities, and the Church most obviously did NOT replace Israel. One would have to abandon large portions of the Bible to make such a claim and ignore Bible prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled - YET. Take it to the bank - God will fulfill ALL of His promises most perfectly. If you think that God is through with Israel, try reading a Bible some.

Its very straightforward: God fulfils his promises in the New Israel, the Church. There is no problem at all.

 

 

 

This is absolute nonsense. The Church is NOT the new Israel. You might as well say that adultery no longer means adultery, or that Jesus is a metaphor for Buddha, or that the word Jerusalem now means New York.

 

This is wrong in my opinion. You can't just change the meaning of scripture to suit your preferred interpretation!

Edited June 7, 2013 by GoldenEagle
<<< Added text in bold to tone down post. >>>

[Spinning Machine]

OH come now Shiloh you really are pulling at strings and this race card of yours is going to back fire on you very soon, why are you now meddling in a question between me and Nebula ? 

[GoldenEagle]

 

Golden Eagle I am  sorry, but  can not make any sense of your graft, but let me say this I believe all the scriptures, but do you ?

eg: 1 Timothy 2:4  do you truly believe this verse ? I do, how about this one 1 John 4:14. Do understand I believe these verses, so therefore I believe the prophecies of Isaiah eg: 52:10 ...;and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God. Now think about this and then ask me a question I can answer without pages of lengthy explanation.  when I say "go figar" { figured; figuring; figures}  it means to consider ( think over) its just harmless Kiwi slang I picked up.    

 

 

The point of the grafting is that according to Romans 11 and Paul's olive tree metaphor, Gentiles are grafted into Israel (the part of Israel that has trusted in the Messiah, Jesus).   Following the metaphor Paul presents, a wild olive branch is grafted into a cultivated olive tree.   The wild olive branch doesn't become a cultivated branch.  It is simply connected to the sustenance of the cultivated olive tree.  It will produce the fruit of the tree it is grafted into.

 

Gentile believers are grafted into the cultivated Olive Tree known as "Israel."  Gentiles believers don't become Jews in any sense.  The word "Jew"  is not spiritualized in the NT.  Paul makes a sharp distinction between the wild branches and cultivated branches.  That distinction is never blurred by Paul to claim that Gentile believers have become anything different like a "spiritual Jew" or whatever.  That is something that people have tried to pencil into the text, but it is simply not there. 

 

Yes this is what I was trying to communicate. Thanks Shiloh

 

So Spinning Machine do you understand what grafting is now? Do you believe we as Gentile believers are grafted into God's promises to Israel? 

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

my name change sinning to spinning which in my country and others a person who lies is called a head spinner or "spinning a story", lies, I have strong opinions based on  many hours of impartial research, combined with hard evidence, I do admit to being rough man, but I am no ignorant lying anti-semitic bullying racist. God forbid ! 

 

ps: as my harmless slang "go figar" consider or "go medi"  meditate offends I shall stop, as I do not wish to offend, however if the truth in my posts offends, so be it. 

 

 

Since I'm the one who changed your name and I'm the one who put you on Moderator Review I will address this here brother. I changed it from Sinning Machine to Spinning Machine. Sinning Machine didn't sound right to me. It implies that you are a slave to sin. As Believers we are slaves to Christ and not sin would you agree? I meant no offense but your choice in names was unacceptable. Since this is a privately funded message board we reserve the right to moderate the WCF site as we see fit. 

 

From the ToS you agreed to when joining:

This is a privately funded message board, we reserve the right to edit or remove any postings that we feel are detrimental to the fellowship on this board, or detrimental to the witness of the board, as we see fit.

 

I have sent you multiple PM's (Private Messages) but you have not opened them. For reference at the top left next to your name is a little red 1 with an envelope. That is where you can view and respond to PMs. I have also sent you an email that to my knowledge you haven't responded to. While on Moderator Review members are not allowed to start new threads/topics. 

 

Thanks for clarification on the slang terms you used. Instead of slang which we might not understand please use words that are understood across cultures.

 

God bless,

GE

[Gandalf]

 

 

God made promises to Israel, and many of those promises haven't been kept - YET. Does anyone want to hint that God doesn't keep His promises? That would be like calling God a liar. The simple truth is that God will keep all of His promises to Israel at His appointed time. God didn't confuse Israel with the Church which is the Body of Christ and made separate promises to His Church. Israel and the Church are two different entities, and the Church most obviously did NOT replace Israel. One would have to abandon large portions of the Bible to make such a claim and ignore Bible prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled - YET. Take it to the bank - God will fulfill ALL of His promises most perfectly. If you think that God is through with Israel, try reading a Bible some.

Its very straightforward: God fulfils his promises in the New Israel, the Church. There is no problem at all.

 

 

 

This is absolute nonsense. The Church is NOT the new Israel. You might as well say that adultery no longer means adultery, or that Jesus is a metaphor for Buddha, or that the word Jerusalem now means New York.

 

This is wrong in my opinion. You can't just change the meaning of scripture to suit your preferred interpretation!

 

I disagree with your opinion; you can't just change the meaning of scripture to suit your preferred interpretation! The Church is very clearly the New Israel, the Zion of God. That's why God's promises make sense!

[nChrist]

 

Gandalf Said:  I disagree with your opinion; you can't just change the meaning of scripture to suit your preferred interpretation! The Church is very clearly the New Israel, the Zion of God. That's why God's promises make sense!

 

Let's go to something real simple for you to reason with. The Church which is the Body of Christ is not waiting for an earthly kingdom, rather we already belong to a Heavenly Kingdom. As Christians, we are also not waiting for a promised land in the Middle East. As Christians, our citizenship is in Heaven, and we are certainly not the "New Israel".

[Guest shiloh357]

 

I disagree with your opinion; you can't just change the meaning of scripture to suit your preferred interpretation! The Church is very clearly the New Israel, the Zion of God. That's why God's promises make sense!

 

 

The problem is that God doens't need a New Israel.  There are no prophecies in the OT about a New Israel.  God never claims that the Church is the New Israel and you cannot provide ONE shred of biblical evidence to that end.  You have been invited to present your evidence, but so far you can't.   Your argument is impotent.

 

The promises that God made to Israel are to Israel alone.  The promises made to the church are different promises.  The church and Israel are radically separate and God never uses those terms interchangably.  He NEVER spiritualizes Israel to mean "the Church."    Nothing has been transferred to the Church from Israel and there is nothing to suggest that it has.  Simply reiterating the same claims like a broken record isn't an argument.  It just you proving that your "theology" has no biblical support.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

God made promises to Israel, and many of those promises haven't been kept - YET. Does anyone want to hint that God doesn't keep His promises? That would be like calling God a liar. The simple truth is that God will keep all of His promises to Israel at His appointed time. God didn't confuse Israel with the Church which is the Body of Christ and made separate promises to His Church. Israel and the Church are two different entities, and the Church most obviously did NOT replace Israel. One would have to abandon large portions of the Bible to make such a claim and ignore Bible prophecy that hasn't been fulfilled - YET. Take it to the bank - God will fulfill ALL of His promises most perfectly. If you think that God is through with Israel, try reading a Bible some.

Its very straightforward: God fulfils his promises in the New Israel, the Church. There is no problem at all.

 

Nope.  God fulfills His promises to Israel in the Millennial reign of Christ.  Israel is always Israel.  Read Ezekial 40-48.