Did Jesus Claim Divinity or Prophethood?

[ayin jade]

The verses you posted were from the Old Testament, from the Law of Moses, which Christians dont follow

You cant call yourself a Christian if you dont believe in the Bible...im so confused now. I thought yall believed in all the books.

I remembered people saying this to me, so i found somethin in the New Testament.

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that iam come to destroy the law, or the prophets; Iam not come to destroy but to FULFILL"

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That was the passage I had in mind when I posted that He fulfilled the Law. All of the Old Testament points to God's plan for redemption of mankind through His Son, Jesus. I believe in the bible, in all of it. But the Law was given to us to convict us of sin, so that God may be glorified in our redemption. Now that Jesus has come, with His New Covenant, the Mosaic Law, that covenant, is not applicable to us. I would be happy to explain further if you wish.

[ayin jade]

one more thing, tell me where and who said those hadiths, i need to find em for myself.

Like which person said it or where its stated

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I will not post that link on this thread. Such a link does not glorify our Lord. I will PM you the link though.

[ayin jade]

Mohammed considered Christ a good prophet; Christ pronounced Mohammed to be a false prophet (John 10:10; Matthew 24:11).

Prophet Muhammad proclaimed the same message, worship only one God and not 3

No, Mohammed did not proclaim the same message as our Lord Jesus.

Our bible, THE word of God shows that Jesus taught us to love the Lord with all our heart, mind and soul, and to love others as ourselves. Jesus also taught that through His death and resurrection, that we can be granted forgiveness of our sins. Jesus taught that the work of God was to believe in Jesus, as Messiah, as Lord. The Trinity is not 3 gods. The Trinity is one God, complex and in 3 persons. Like the core, skin and meat are all part of an apple. Like ice, steam and water are all H2O water.

I might add that the quran doesn

[ayin jade]

The verses you posted were from the Old Testament, from the Law of Moses, which Christians dont follow

You cant call yourself a Christian if you dont believe in the Bible...im so confused now. I thought yall believed in all the books.

I remembered people saying this to me, so i found somethin in the New Testament.

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that iam come to destroy the law, or the prophets; Iam not come to destroy but to FULFILL"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would also like to add that the Law and the entire Old Testament point to Jesus, to God's plan of salvation through Jesus. When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and the prophets, He meant that the Law and the Prophets pointed to Messiah, and He is Messiah. Through Jesus, man is reconciled to God. Praise the Lord for His mercy and grace!

[ayin jade]

Mohammed claimed that there was but one God, Allah; Christ claimed that He was God (John 10:30-31; John 8:58-59; John 5:18; John 14:9).

Throughout the whole Bible, Jesus preaches about one God, yet he never said WORSHIP ME, IAM YOUR GOD.....He also prays to God when he was on the cross...why would he pray to himself? Makes no sense at all

Again, the Trinity. That is a concept you would have to understand better I think. Jesus did accept worship. Jesus did say He was God. That is why the Jews of that day wanted to stone Him, for the blasphemy of equating Himself to God.

John 8: 56- 59

56Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad."

57"You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!"

58"I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" 59At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

John 12: 12-16

12The next day the great crowd that had come for the Feast heard that Jesus was on his way to Jerusalem. 13They took palm branches and went out to meet him, shouting,

"Hosanna! "

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!"

"Blessed is the King of Israel!" 14Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,

15"Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion;

see, your king is coming,

seated on a donkey's colt."

16At first his disciples did not understand all this. Only after Jesus was glorified did they realize that these things had been written about him and that they had done these things to him.

Be careful Nazim, you are hearing about our Lord, about salvation for mankind, for you. This is important for your eternal life. Salvation comes through Jesus. You need to believe in Him to be saved. Mohammed, the quran, your allah do not save. Only Jesus saves. Praise God for His mercy on us.

John 12:47-48

47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.

Acts 4: 12

12Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved."

Romans 10:9-10

9That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

[Guest Nazim Ali]

Again, the Trinity. That is a concept you would have to understand better I think. Jesus did accept worship. Jesus did say He was God. That is why the Jews of that day wanted to stone Him, for the blasphemy of equating Himself to God.

Where did he say "I am God, so worship me"? Your only showing me a verse that you think he said he was God.

"Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!"

Your right about this verse. He was only a prophet of God. Most of the authors of the Gospel are unknown. Even Christian scholars admit it. I will send you a link if youd like since i cant post it here.

I would also like to add that the Law and the entire Old Testament point to Jesus, to God's plan of salvation through Jesus. When Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law and the prophets, He meant that the Law and the Prophets pointed to Messiah, and He is Messiah. Through Jesus, man is reconciled to God. Praise the Lord for His mercy and grace!

No, your wrong, let me show you the verse under the verse i posted last time.

Matthew 5:17-33 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 21 Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing. 27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery

He's acknowledging the Laws Moses(PBUH) put forth! So you cant say he CANCELLED them.

The verses you posted were from the Old Testament, from the Law of Moses, which Christians dont follow. The Lord Jesus plainly showed us that those who are with sin should not stone an adulterous woman. He fulfilled the Law. We live under mercy and grace. We live per the moral code, but not the religious or judicial code in the Law. Would you like more understanding of how we live for the Lord?

According to Matthew, Jesus(PBUH) Acknowledges the Old Testament and not only that, he REPEATS them! So if Christians dont believe in the Old Testament, then they cant say their Christians.

No, Mohammed did not proclaim the same message as our Lord Jesus.

Luke 24:36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you

Sound familiar? Arabic translation: Asalam Alaykoum

Matthew 26:39 And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

Say: Whether ye believe in it or not, it is true that those who were given knowledge before hand, when it is recited to them, fall down on their faces in humble prostration. Quran 17:107

Fell on his face and prayed. Muslims everywhere fall on their faces and pray to God.

003.049 "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

003.050 "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.

003.051 "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"

003.052 When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets:I am not come to destroy, but to fulfilll

Both the Quran and the Bible says he comes to fullfill what Moses(PBUH) sent. There are much more, but these are a few.

Our bible, THE word of God shows that Jesus taught us to love the Lord with all our heart, mind and soul, and to love others as ourselves. Jesus also taught that through His death and resurrection, that we can be granted forgiveness of our sins. Jesus taught that the work of God was to believe in Jesus, as Messiah, as Lord. The Trinity is not 3 gods. The Trinity is one God, complex and in 3 persons. Like the core, skin and meat are all part of an apple. Like ice, steam and water are all H2O water.

Your right, Jesus(PBUH) did teach to love the Lord, but he never said that he was the Lord. Why should an innocent person pay for other peoples sins? Wheres the justice in that? H20 properties arent equal like you claim the Trinity is.

I might add that the quran doesn

Edited December 6, 2004 by Nazim Ali

[Sola Scriptora]

Nazim:

It would simply be honest of you to admit you DO NOT believe what the Bible says. You DO NOT believe what the Lord Jesus Christ said. Just admit it. Stop pretending you believe the Bible and that the bible supports Islam. It doesn't. You have to be deranged or dishonest to say it does.

The Bible clearly teaches Jesus Christ is the Lord and CREATOR of the whole universe. In every book, on every page.

[ayin jade]

Nazim:

It would simply be honest of you to admit you DO NOT believe what the Bible says.

[Guest Nazim Ali]

Nazim, the quran shows that allah tells the angels to worship man. How can this be? Our bible tells us that all things are for the glory of God, not man. Angels worship the Lord too, never man. Why does your quran say otherwise?

From the quran, from a website link you posted in fact.

We said to the angels, 'Prostrate to Adam!' and they prostrated, with the exception of Diabolis. He refused and was arrogant and was one of the disbelievers. (2:34)

002.030 Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I will create a vicegerent on earth." They said: "Wilt Thou place therein one who will make mischief therein and shed blood?- whilst we do celebrate Thy praises and glorify Thy holy (name)?" He said: "I know what ye know not."

002.031 And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: "Tell me the names of these if ye are right."

002.032 They said: "Glory to Thee, of knowledge We have none, save what Thou Hast taught us: In truth it is Thou Who art perfect in knowledge and wisdom."

002.033 He said: "O Adam! Tell them their names." When he had told them, Allah said: "Did I not tell you that I know the secrets of heaven and earth, and I know what ye reveal and what ye conceal?"

002.034 And behold, We said to the angels: "Bow down to Adam" and they bowed down. Not so Iblis: he refused and was haughty: He was of those who reject Faith.

Read it in context. He's showing the angels his creation. He NEVER said to worship man! Your trying to twist what it says.

Read these verses from the Bible. Tell me if it means to worship others other then God.

Genesis 19:1 - And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Genesis 23:12 - And Abraham bowed down himself before the people of the land.

Genesis 27:29 - Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee.

There are more, but you get the point.

http://www.bibleontheweb.com/

[Guest Nazim Ali]

(Judges 21:10-24 NLT)

So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan.

Why keep the virgins?(LUST)

The Israelite assembly sent a peace delegation to the little remnant of Benjamin who were living at the rock of Rimmon. Then the men of Benjamin returned to their homes, and the four hundred women of Jabesh-gilead who were spared were given to them as wives. But there were not enough women for all of them. The people felt sorry for Benjamin because the LORD had left this gap in the tribes of Israel. So the Israelite leaders asked, "How can we find wives for the few who remain, since all the women of the tribe of Benjamin are dead? There must be heirs for the survivors so that an entire tribe of Israel will not be lost forever. But we cannot give them our own daughters in marriage because we have sworn with a solemn oath that anyone who does this will fall under God's curse."

Then they thought of the annual festival of the LORD held in Shiloh, between Lebonah and Bethel, along the east side of the road that goes from Bethel to Shechem. They told the men of Benjamin who still needed wives, "Go and hide in the vineyards. When the women of Shiloh come out for their dances, rush out from the vineyards, and each of you can take one of them home to be your wife! And when their fathers and brothers come to us in protest, we will tell them, 'Please be understanding. Let them have your daughters, for we didn't find enough wives for them when we destroyed Jabesh-gilead. And you are not guilty of breaking the vow since you did not give your daughters in marriage to them.'" So the men of Benjamin did as they were told. They kidnapped the women who took part in the celebration and carried them off to the land of their own inheritance. Then they rebuilt their towns and lived in them. So the assembly of Israel departed by tribes and families, and they returned to their own homes.

Explain this verse to me. How can it say its ok to kidnap women, force them to marry, then have sex?(RAPE)

Then it goes on to say, its ok, theres nothing wrong with it youre not guilty.