Thug Tactics & Giving

[Fez]

 

 

 

 

Consider this as well:

 

On the other hand, people are going to be judged by what they say about the pastor, and how they respond to his leadership. The pastor's testimony about the members of his flock is going to come into play at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." There are many people that serve for years around local churches, but they do so with much complaining and criticism of the pastor. A lot of their service in the local church is going to go up in smoke at the Judgment Seat of Christ, because of the grief and trouble that they have caused their pastor(s). Remember, we are not judged according to just the amount of things that we do for God, but the sort (the quality) of what we do (right reasons, motives, attitudes, etc.). I Corinthians 3:11-15 says, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work OF WHAT SORT it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

 

 

Excerpted from: http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/pastrjud.htm

That is wrong and dangerous. What it is saying is that if I am in Benny Hinns "church" he is going to tell God how I did? He is partially responsible for my soul, and not God. He is a "god"?

 

As to the second underlined scripture, the author has read the scripture completely wrong. They have to give account as to how they pastored others, not how those who they pastored did. Being a Pastor is a gift, and every pastor will be accountable before God as to how they used the gift, but it puts no onus on them to be responsible, not report on your walk.

 

God knows more about you, and the Pastor, that either would ever begin to know.

 

Follow God, not the man, and in the case of this linked site, stay away from it, or at least question it against scripture.

 

 

 

Nonsense. This has nothing to do with following the man!

 

If a pastor has led people astray, he will be held responsible for that. If he has been a true and godly leader, he will be rewarded for it. There is a higher standard for leaders before the throne.

 

If people are resistant to the truths he preaches---and LIVES---from the word of God, then they will suffer for that, and for causing hardship in those who lead them. The bible says what it says. You can disagree if you like.

 

James 3:1

Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly.

 

No not nonsense. It is you that postulated that a pastor will be held responsible before God for the state of his congregation was it not?

 

You have still not proved this to be the case. He will be held responsible for what he says, and what he teaches, yes, but to think that he is responsible for the spiritual state of those who he pastors before God, is just plain wrong. I sin and it's my pastors fault? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

Please enlighten me as to your comment.

 

 

I don't 'postulate' anything that God doesn't say.  The Lord Himself teaches it in His word. You can accept it or not---it's your decision. You choose to put a spin on it. If I make my pastor's job hard by my behaviour or refusal of correction, then I will be responsible to God for that. If he teaches error, he is accountable to God for passing it on to us.

 

It is a Spirit-led pastor's joy to lead well, for he knows he is accountable to God for the spiritual well-being of those God places under his influence.

 

But that;s not what you said, you said..

 

The pastor is responsible to God for the flock's spiritual health. If you don't receive correction, you are a rebellious child to God.

And that is what I have an issue with. The pastor is responsible for what he says, what he teaches and how he acts, but he is not responsible for my spiritual health to God. That is too great a burden for any man to bear. I am responsible for my spiritual health. The pastor teaches me what to eat, but if I refuse to eat it, this does not make him responsible to God for my fall, it makes me responsible. Can you see what I am getting at?

[Floatingaxe]

 

 

 

 

 

Consider this as well:

 

On the other hand, people are going to be judged by what they say about the pastor, and how they respond to his leadership. The pastor's testimony about the members of his flock is going to come into play at the Judgment Seat of Christ. Hebrews 13:17 says, "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you." There are many people that serve for years around local churches, but they do so with much complaining and criticism of the pastor. A lot of their service in the local church is going to go up in smoke at the Judgment Seat of Christ, because of the grief and trouble that they have caused their pastor(s). Remember, we are not judged according to just the amount of things that we do for God, but the sort (the quality) of what we do (right reasons, motives, attitudes, etc.). I Corinthians 3:11-15 says, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work OF WHAT SORT it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

 

 

Excerpted from: http://www.libertygospeltracts.com/question/prequest/pastrjud.htm

That is wrong and dangerous. What it is saying is that if I am in Benny Hinns "church" he is going to tell God how I did? He is partially responsible for my soul, and not God. He is a "god"?

 

As to the second underlined scripture, the author has read the scripture completely wrong. They have to give account as to how they pastored others, not how those who they pastored did. Being a Pastor is a gift, and every pastor will be accountable before God as to how they used the gift, but it puts no onus on them to be responsible, not report on your walk.

 

God knows more about you, and the Pastor, that either would ever begin to know.

 

Follow God, not the man, and in the case of this linked site, stay away from it, or at least question it against scripture.

 

 

 

Nonsense. This has nothing to do with following the man!

 

If a pastor has led people astray, he will be held responsible for that. If he has been a true and godly leader, he will be rewarded for it. There is a higher standard for leaders before the throne.

 

If people are resistant to the truths he preaches---and LIVES---from the word of God, then they will suffer for that, and for causing hardship in those who lead them. The bible says what it says. You can disagree if you like.

 

James 3:1

Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly.

 

No not nonsense. It is you that postulated that a pastor will be held responsible before God for the state of his congregation was it not?

 

You have still not proved this to be the case. He will be held responsible for what he says, and what he teaches, yes, but to think that he is responsible for the spiritual state of those who he pastors before God, is just plain wrong. I sin and it's my pastors fault? Is that what you are trying to say?

 

Please enlighten me as to your comment.

 

 

I don't 'postulate' anything that God doesn't say.  The Lord Himself teaches it in His word. You can accept it or not---it's your decision. You choose to put a spin on it. If I make my pastor's job hard by my behaviour or refusal of correction, then I will be responsible to God for that. If he teaches error, he is accountable to God for passing it on to us.

 

It is a Spirit-led pastor's joy to lead well, for he knows he is accountable to God for the spiritual well-being of those God places under his influence.

 

But that;s not what you said, you said..

 

The pastor is responsible to God for the flock's spiritual health. If you don't receive correction, you are a rebellious child to God.

And that is what I have an issue with. The pastor is responsible for what he says, what he teaches and how he acts, but he is not responsible for my spiritual health to God. That is too great a burden for any man to bear. I am responsible for my spiritual health. The pastor teaches me what to eat, but if I refuse to eat it, this does not make him responsible to God for my fall, it makes me responsible. Can you see what I am getting at?

 

 

You are taking issue with God's word. I know where you are coming from but you don't seem to get that the pastor is responsible for the general spiritual well-being of those placed in his care. He is held to a higher standard, which is why a man needs to be particularly gifted, called and anointed to that position.

[Guest]

Well, it would seem we've gotten a bit off track from a couple basically being coerced into giving more than they felt led to by thier church leadership.

 

 

Thread's highjacked already, so press on.

[Floatingaxe]

Well, it would seem we've gotten a bit off track from a couple basically being coerced into giving more than they felt led to by thier church leadership.

 

 

Thread's highjacked already, so press on.

 

 

I am not carrying on with any highjacking.