2nd Coming

[SkilletRocksMyFace]

Let us not resort to judging who has an open mind or not.

However, I do disagree with the first post.

Which prophosies are you refering to specifically? Christ did fufill all the prophocies in his intial comming, espeicaly those in Isiaih. However the big one he does fufill in the Torah (the jewish text) are in Genesis, in Chapter 3

at vrse 15

Genesis 3:15

I will put enmity between you and the woman,

and between your offspring and her offspring;

he shall bruise your head,

and you shall bruise his heel."

We know that Christ was the seed of woman who destoyed the head of the serpant (sin) when he died (thus the serpant bruised his heel) the nails on the cross. This is further proven by the new testiment

1 Cor. 15:22-25

For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. [23] But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. [24] Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. [25] For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.

Because it is sin that has the power of death, which is the wage

Romans 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Christ did not fail, in fact he did what GOd sent him to do, the opened a way to salvation and ADOPTION into the seed of Abraham.

Romans 11:1-2

I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! For I myself am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, a member of the tribe of Benjamin. [2] God has not rejected his people whom he foreknew. Do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he appeals to God against Israel?

Romans 11:15-23

For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead? [16] If the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, so is the whole lump, and if the root is holy, so are the branches.

[17] But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, although a wild olive shoot, were grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing root of the olive tree, [18] do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you. [19] Then you will say, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." [20] That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but stand in awe. [21] For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. [22] Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off. [23] And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

I support God's chosen people and consider myself a spiritual Jew, hoewver the only means I have of obtaining that is by adoption through baptism into Jesu christ.

The Second comming is for us, it is our judgment, the new testiment is very full of this. Instead of repeating myself I will ask you be refered to the thread of immortal souls for proof and hope of the second comming.

peace.

Edited November 16, 2004 by SkilletRocksMyFace

[Guest hubertdorm]

Careful, the Torah is the Bible. It's the Old Testament, just like we read it.

The Torah is only the first five books of the Old Testament, not the entire Bible itself. Yes, the scriptures are written by God, but by themselves they are incomplete. I couldn't claim to have the Bible if I only possessed a few books.

The Tanach includes three sections of the Old Testament. The Torah, the Nevi

[Guest]

Thank you Super Jew! I just try to ask a question, and instead of it being answered I'm ridiculed. The OLD TESTAMENT doesn't speak of a second coming. Still, nobody can tell me why Christians believe in it. A lot of Jews think that reason could be becuase Jesus didn't do what he was supposed to the first time around.

[Matthitjah]

Bangel,

There were many men even in Jesus time that misconstrued His first Coming as well. Quite literally a whole enitre RELIGION missed it. Why? They were looking for some man pleasing solution to their problems.

The lie you are falling prey to is that He will not return again. This is a lie. This lie proceeds from the very first lie. Which is, "has God really said?"

Well I got news for you God has said. God has spoken on the matter. This you must reckon with. It is not fellow believers you must reckon with. Although we will keep you accountable to the very Word. It is God's Word and Jesus Christ you must reckon with;

Joh

[Guest]

I don't doubt that if the bible is true, Jesus will come again. All I want to know is:Why didn't Jesus fulfill his prophetic duties the first time around? There is nothing in the old testament about a second coming.

[AFaceInTheCrowd]

JESUS speaks of HIS return to get HIS own...John 14:1-3.To say HIS 1st coming was a failure is a slap in the face to all who have chosen HIM as their SAVIOR!

[apothanein kerdos]

The Torah is only the first five books of the Old Testament, not the entire Bible itself.

The way the Jewish bible works is sections of books are often called by the name of the first book in that section. Thus, the "old testament" to the Jews is known as the Torah. Here's further evidence if you need it.

Thank you Super Jew!  I just try to ask a question, and instead of it being answered I'm ridiculed.  The OLD TESTAMENT doesn't speak of a second coming.  Still, nobody can tell me why Christians believe in it.  A lot of Jews think that reason could be becuase Jesus didn't do what he was supposed to the first time around.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No problem. Most Jews ignore a lot of things about the Old Testament. For one, they ignore that God's name in Genesis is actually plural and not singular. However, it makes perfect sense that there will be two commings of the Messiah. While the Torah never explicitly says "There will be two commings of the Messiah", it does teach about two different Messiahs. One of them is one that is offered as a sacrifice to God that acts as a punishment of sin (Isaiah 53). The other, however, is one that brings about the earthly rule of God and the restoration of the Jewish people. Thus a Jew who has studied the Bible realizes they have one of two options to believe; either there are two Messiahs or there are two commings of one messiah.

As why didn't Jesus fufill all of His duties while on earth; it wasn't His purpose at that time. It's not that Jesus failed, it's that He fufilled scripture and will fufill scripture. Afterall, He died and suffered just like the Torah promised He would, so He was a success in that matter. How could He have tied and ruled at the same time? The answer is simple; He couldn't. He has allowed the world to continue as is because He fufilled the promise to bring grace into the world, which He has done. He will soon (I use the word "soon" in a loose manner) return to fufill the rest of the prophecy.

[Guest]

That is the explanation I have been looking for Super Jew. Why do so many Jews think that all of the prophecies should have been fulfilled the first time around. You speak of a messiah that will die as a sacrafice for our sins, and you speak of a messiah that will bring heavan on earth and what not. Why not a messiah that will die for our sins and bring heavan on earth...At the same time? Isn't this what most Jews believe?

[dgolvach]

I don't doubt that if the bible is true, Jesus will come again. All I want to know is:Why didn't Jesus fulfill his prophetic duties the first time around? There is nothing in the old testament about a second coming.

There are alot of things that I don't understand about God's(Jesus) ways. The OT dose speak of a suffering messiah and a conquering messiah. I just take it this way. Jesus said he was God and that he would return. Well.....He's God!! He can do it any way he wants and dosen't even owe us an explaination.

Dan

[apothanein kerdos]

That is the explanation I have been looking for Super Jew.  Why do so many Jews think that all of the prophecies should have been fulfilled the first time around.  You speak of a messiah that will die as a sacrafice for our sins, and you speak of a messiah that will bring heavan on earth and what not.  Why not a messiah that will die for our sins and bring heavan on earth...At the same time?  Isn't this what most Jews believe?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WEll that's an excellent question about why the two must be mutually exclusive. Before I answer it, I want to remind you that many Rabbis have gone to great lengths to try and counter the "suffering" prophecies and say that they really aren't refering to the Messiah. For an example they talk about how Isaiah 53 is talking about the Jewish people...of course once it says that this servant was rejected by his own people, they are then left with a hard way to explain this away. Thus, if they go to such a great length to disprove a suffering Messiah, obviously they believe that they are mutually exclusive (cannot happen at the same time).

As for why do the Jews believe it should happen the first time around, I really don't know. I think admission that the Messiah would come twice would lend credit to Jesus being the Messiah...and that's the last thing any Jew wants to admit.

As for why they cannot occur at the same time...the Jews believe the Messiah will be mortal or at one point was a mortal man. This is why the popular belief of Moses or Elijah or someone who is very similar to them will be the Messiah. How could a mortal man suffer and die yet rule the world at the same time? In one instance we see the Messiah being the suffering servant, we know that he is not in a leadership role and not controling the world. If we view the Messiah as a war hero and conqueor of the world, then he cannot be the suffering servant. In other words, both of these descriptions must happen at different times.