WN: Israel has every right to defend itself against Iran - Jerusalem

[Gandalf]

And it shall come to pass That just as you were a curse among the nations, O house of Judah and house of Israel, So I will save you, and you shall be a blessing. Do not fear, Let your hands be strong. Zechariah 8:13

Relevance?

[Guest shiloh357]

Among other many reasons, because Egypt moved two divisions into the Sinai Peninsula. Nasser thought that Israel was going to attack, having believed reports that Israel was massing it's troops to attack Syria, which were false. You might take note that two divisions wouldn't nearly be enough to attack Israel, and that the military plan used was a defensive one.  If Egypt was going to attack they would've put a lot more troops over there, and if Israel really thought that they would lose, they would not have attacked. They did not steamroll Egypt due to some "miracle", they won because Egypt was not ready for war, and Israel was.

 Burning Ember, you have it completely wrong.   Both Egypt, Jordan and Syria were openly calling for Israel’s destruction.  They were openly preparing for war with Israel.

First of all, here are some quotes from President Nassar just prior to the Six Day War:

 

"Our aim is the full restoration of the rights of the Palestinian people. In other words, we aim at the destruction of the State of Israel. The immediate aim: perfection of Arab military might. The national aim: the eradication of Israel." – President Nasser of Egypt, November 18, 1965 

 

"Our basic objective will be the destruction of Israel. The Arab people want to fight . . . The mining of Sharm el Sheikh is a confrontation with Israel. Adopting this measure obligates us to be ready to embark on a general war with Israel." – Nasser, May 27, 1967 

 

"We will not accept any ... coexistence with Israel. ... Today the issue is not the establishment of peace between the Arab states and Israel .... The war with Israel is in effect since 1948." – Nasser, May 28, 1967 

 

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel . . . . to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not declarations." – Nasser, May, 30, 1967 after signing a defense pact with Jordan's King Hussein 

 

Nassar and other Arab leaders made it clear that the complete destruction of Israel was the goal and that Israel would be pushed into the sea.

Secondly, Egypt had far more than 2 divisions.  Egypt had seven divisions and over 1,000 tanks deployed on the borders against Israel.  Egypt was very much prepared for war and the fact that Israel was outnumbered nearly 50 to 1 due to being surrounded by multiple Arab nations who would join Egypt against Israel makes Israel's victory so much more stunning.   Israel was not in a position to win and the West Point Military Academy War College will not study Israel's war for independence, the Six Day War or the Yom Kippur war, because Israel's victories in those wars cannot be explained in military terms.  

 

The Hand of God is the only reasonable explanation for Israel's victories.  In each case, Israel was hopelessly outnumbered, the enemy had better weapons, and more of them. In each case, the world expected Israel to be wiped out and in every case, Israel didn't just survive; they won and won big.

 

 

 

Israel actually refused to give back the Sinai Peninsula, the primary objective of the Arab states was to change the status quo of negotiations as Israel refused to return The Sinai to Egypt, and The Golan heights to Syria. It took the 1978 Camp David Accords to give the Sinai back.

Israel didn’t have the Sinai or the Golan at that time.  The Sinai was taken by Israel in self-defense when the Egyptians (who possessed the Sinai) invaded Israel from the South during the Yom Kippur War.  Israel didn’t have the Golan Heights until the end of Six Day War when they took it in self-defense against the Syrians who held it from 1948-1967.

 

Egypt had far more than two divisions deployed.  Egypt deployed seven divisions and 1,000 tanks.   Altogther, the Arab forces had Israel hopelessly outnumbered and outgunned.  Israel was outnumbered by 50 to 1 when you consider that Israel was ringed by the military forces of Egypt, Syria and Jordan (and possibly Lebanon). 

 

 

 

Now, this might just be me, but I don't think giving back something that you have stolen from someone else is "generous".  Gaza didn't belong to Israel in the first place. It was part of Egypt under the 1949 Armistice Agreement. Kind of like how the West Bank was part of Jordan under the same agreement. Until Israel invaded, and took that land.

But Israel didn’t invade or steal the land.   Jordan used the West Bank as a staging area from which to launch its attacks on Israel during the Six Day War.   Egypt staged its attacks on Israel during the same war.   Israel’s presence was made necessary because Israel was under attack by two numerically superior forces.

 

The West Bank and Gaza were not the property of anyone.  They were under the administrative control of Jordan and Egypt respectively, but the the West Bank and Gaza were and are the last remaining pieces of terroritory under the British Mandate that are not under the sovereign control of any nation.  So neither parcels of land belonged to anyone.  Israel didn’t take anything from anyone.  Israel has taken over administrative control of West Bank and relinquished control to the Palestinians because of pressure from western nations who argued that the Palestinians would use Gaza to create a nation.  Israel was promised that reliquishing control of Gaza would bring more peace to the region. 

 

Instead, what Israel got was a 500% increase in mortar and rocket attacks and increased terrorism.  Instead of Gaza being the precursor to a Palestinian nation, it is now headed by Hamas which is a terrorist organization that was elected on a platform that looks like it came straight from Mein Kampf.  The election of Hamas stunned the west and proved to the world that the Palestinians have no intention of creating a state.  Hamas has no agenda or aspirations on creating a Palestinian nation.  Their obsession is with destroying Israel, even if they have to destroy the Palestinian people in the process.

 

Israel’s presence inGaza and the West Bank were/are consistent with international law that allows the rentention of any land gained in self-defense.   Israel was fighting a defenisive war against the Egyptians, Jordanians and the Syrians and because Israel won, Israel retained the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights.

 

Contrary to liberal and Arab propaganda, Israel did not steal anything at all.  Israel’s presence in the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan were/are meant to provide a military buffer to prevent Egypt, Jordan and Syria from staging any further attacks on Israel from those areas.

[hupo]

I must admit I get carried away at times, so if I have stepped on anyone's personal foot, I hereby apologize

 

Good work, moderators. I am impressed with the way you are running this thread

[Gandalf]

Bless you hupo!

 

Its an emotive subject for many people; you have shown the courage of humility.

[hupo]

Thank you Gandalf

 

Although we obviously disagree on the threads topic I must tell you something:

 

My philosophy is that life is like skating in an ice rink. Life is about moving.

On ice one needs friction to move. No friction. No movement. No life!

 

It's views such as you present here, that supply plenty of friction for me and I just have to thank you for that

 

Sounds nuts, I know, but I mean it 

 

OK.... bell just rang for the next round