I need help here friends

[Guest idied2]

Greetings Adstar,

I hope you are not listening to this nonsense about Melchizedek being God. No one at any time has seen God, but only the Son. The Holy Spirit was never given to be IN a person until Pentecost.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

Dad Ernie

In the following scripture. Was CHRIST saying that HE is FATHER GOD?

John 14

8 Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'?

So since CHRIST is GOD THE FATHER born of man for HIS purpose. Why would you think HE would be any different in a body he created a different way for a different purpose?

Heb 5:10

called by God as High Priest "according to the order of Melchizedek,"

Eph 2:22

in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

In CHRIST JESUS

[Dad Ernie]

Greetings idied2,

So since CHRIST is GOD THE FATHER born of man for HIS purpose. Why would you think HE would be any different in a body he created a different way for a different purpose?

I'm not sure what you are getting at, please explain.

While you are at it, do you believe the following verses:

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father) full of grace and truth.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Hebrews 7:22-28 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. 23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: 24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. 26 For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; 27 Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. 28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

[borntorebel]

idied2 says,

The first part of the trinity is Melchizidek. The first part of the trinity is CHRIST. The first part of the trinity is GOD. And the first part of the trinity is the HOLY SPIRIT.

idied2, you have "four" entities as part of the "trinity", which means a group of three. Are you now saying it's a "quadinity", or "quadrinity", or "quadrupinity"? I personally believe this is Jesus. Why do I believe this?

"For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken (Jesus?) pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, 'Thou art a priest for the ages after the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God." Heb. 7:12-19.

Now I haven't done alot of study on this recently, I am going on what i was taught previously. I am going to go into a deeper study of this in the future though.

May God's grace, power and peace be with you,

Ron

[Anne]

Oh, i'm gonna go research this one and pray. Get back to you, good question though.

[Adstar]

Oh, i'm gonna go research this one and pray.  Get back to you, good question though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hello Anne i will be looking forward to your reply maybe i will be able to get an answer if God is willing.

All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Anne]

WAS MELCHISEDEC CHRIST?

An interpretation of Melchisedec

References: Hebrews Chapter 7 verses 1-3.

An exposition of Hebrews by Arthur W Pink.

A commentary on the Holy Bible by Matthew Henry and Thomas Scott.

Verse 1.

[borntorebel]

Anne posts an explanation of Melchisedec. Here are some scriptural problems with this interpretation;

So why did Abraham do this?  Well Abraham was deemed, by his prosperity, to be the patriarch of all his descendants.

Abraham was the patriarch of all his descendants because out of his loins came all of his descendants, as well as the spiritual descendants, of which we are. It had nothing to do with Abraham's prosperity. He could have been a poor man and still been the patriarch of all his descendants. Wealth does not a patriarch make.

We can see from the meeting between Melchisecdec and Abraham that Abraham recognised Melchisecdec’s lineage.  By Abraham giving to him a tenth of his spoils Abraham was showing recognition of Melchisecdec’s lineage (Refer to Levi).  Yet Melchisedec recognised God had chosen Abraham as the father of many nations, hence as a priest of Jehovah, (Levi) he blessed Abraham.

One can infer that Abraham recognized the lineage of Melchisedec, but that doesn't make it true. Scripture says nothing about Abraham recognizing the lineage of Melchisidec. We know Melchisedec had no lineage from what God tells us in Heb. 7:3. This person also refers to Melchisedec's lineage to Levi and the Levitical priesthood. Let's look at the scriptures this person leaves out (understandably so, since they disprove his theory);

"Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils. And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham: But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises. And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him. If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood. And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest: (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament. And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them. For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself. For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore." Heb. 7:11-28.

Ok, let's look at this more closely and see exactly what God has to say about Melchiisedec. Abraham, the patriarch of the all his descendants (and remember, it's not just the Israelites), gave a tenth of his spoils, from the battle to rescue Lot, to Melchisedec. God says how great this man (Melchisedec) is to receive this offering from Abraham, even though only the Levites were authorized to receive the tithes of God's people, who came from the loins of Abraham. God says that he whose descent isn't from the lineage of Levi (as the Levitival priests did and had to have in order to be priests) received tithes from Abraham. God then says the less (Abraham and his descendants) are blessed by the better (Melchisedec, doesn't God refer to Christ in this way also?). God then tells us that Levi )and the priesthood of Levi), who receives tithes, paid tithes in Abraham to Melchisdedec because Levi was yet in his father's loins. Now, God then addresses the Hebrew knowledge that the Levitical priesthood was the vessel through which the law was given to them. If this priesthood was perfect ( as some believed), why was there a need that another priest would need to come according to the order (succession) of Melchisedec and not be of the order (succession) of Aaron? Here's the kicker that disproves this persons theory; "For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law" v. 12. God tells us here, as well as other places in the NT, that the priesthood had to be changed in order for the new covenant to be established. Then we see where God relates this directly to Jesus;

"For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. For it is EVIDENT that our Lord sprang out of Juda (God tells us right here in these 2 verses whom Melchisedec is); of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood" v. 13-14.

God has already told us Melchisidec, at the time Abraham met him, had no lineage, yet here God tells us this persons lineage is of the tribe of Juda. God then tells us another priest arose of similitude to Melchisedec who is made after the power of eonian life, not a carnal commandment. The previous commandment is disannulled because it was weak and unprofitable (God's words, not mine) for it made nothing perfect like the hope of Christ has, bringing us close in relationship to God. This new priesthood was even made with an oath, which the Levitical priests didn't have to take. By this oath was Jesus made a surety of a better covenant. By this Christ was made the perfect priest, only having to sacrifice for the sins of man one time, giving us the hope we now hold dear. The law made the physical priests (Levites) while the word of oath, which was before the law, made the spiritual priest, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ!

Melchisedec isn't of the Levitical priesthood in any way, shape or form. This is another instance of man twisting God's word to fit their own beliefs.

“first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem; which is, King of Peace.”

Apply the brakes here and let’s think for a moment, is the bible saying that this is the King of righteousness himself? The King of Peace? Are we to take it that the Bible speaks of Christ Jesus?

No, I am certain that we are not.

The name Melchisedec, means righteous, what the Bible is undoubtably referring to here is in reference to his character, the type of man he was, the Bible is saying now here is a righteous man.  So we see that Melchisedec was a righteous man, maybe the people of his kingdom did mark him as a TYPE of messiah, who can say, we weren’t there.  Also note that he was the King of a place Salem, which by interpretation has the meaning of peace.

Let's look at what the meanings actually are.

Melchisedec (Greek)- Strong's #3198 - of Hebrew origin {#4442}; Melchisedek (i.e. Malkitsedek), a patriarch.

Melchisedec (Hebrew) - Strong's #4442 - from #4428 & #6664; king of right.

So we see that the name meant "King of what is right." Now this can mean righteousness, but it can also mean prosperity. God places His interpretation on this name by telling he is King of righteousness. It wasn't because he was a righteous man (nto saying he wasn't) or because the people of his kingdom marked him as a type of messiah (where does it say anything about the people in his kingdom? Once again this person adds to God's word.) From the verses shown in the above quote, we can see God wasn't talking about a physical king, but rather a similitude of the spiritual King to come, Jesus Christ.

So where are we now? What have we learned?

1. Melchisedec was a king.

2. Melchisedec was a priest (order of Levi).FALSE;

3. King in a place called Salem (peace).King of Salem, not in a place;

4. He was a righteous man.

5. Friend of Abraham

6. Abraham and Melchisedec were connected in lineage.FALSE

7. Melchisedec’s lineage was more ancient to that of Abraham’s. see next post

8. Melchisedec recognised God had chosen Abraham as the father of many nations and as a priest of Jehovah he blessed Abraham. Scripture never tells us he recognized Abram as the father of many nations.

Verse 3.  “Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.”

This is the hard one, isn’t it?  What a person will read here, if they are not careful, is that Melchisedec had no mother or father or descendants, he wasn’t born nor did he die.  I want to look at this before I move on to the last section.

HUH?!? Well, since that's exactly what God said here, then yes, that is what a person will read here. Amazing how far so called "theological scholars" will go to fit God into their little "belief" boxes.

Verse three appears to be referring to the circumstances of Melchisedec’s ancestry, that there is no reference to Melchisedec’s ancestry does not mean he was the messiah, nothing is recorded in scripture as to his parentage or pedigree, nor is anything recorded in scripture as to the beginning or end of his life, therefore  it is not at all surprising to me that some have concluded he typically resembles the son of God, whose existence is from eternity to eternity, who had no predecessors and will have no successor.

A very true statement here. However, he once again changes what is actually said in Heb. 7 to fit his belief; "...having neither beginning of days nor end of life;" It doesn't say that there is no record of his birth or death, but God says that he had no beginning of days or end of life. God said it, that settles it.

We will now see that we must look closer in order to squeeze THIS truth of God into the false belief this man espouses;

But if you look closer we find that Melchisedec was without descent, meaning genealogy, meaning his name was simply not found in the public genealogical registers, I’m led to believe that this is typical of the priesthood of Levi, that no one knew who his mother or father was does not mean he was the Son of God.

The first sentence here is correct. This is the proper interpretation of what it says in Heb. 7:3. He is wrong abut the Levitical priesthood however. Only the direct descendants of Aaron could be Levite priests. It doesn't say anything in scripture about the Levitical priests not knowing who their father's or mother's were.

What I see of Melchisedec was that he was a righteous man by character, hence the name King of Righteousness, that he ruled with righteousness in the city of Salem, meaning peace, he was a good man, a Godly man who walk in the path of the great Jehovah, he was not Christ, however he was a heartfelt follower of God a faithful servant of the Great Jehovah himself.

Yes, I truly believe this is what this man sees, for if he saw it truthfully, he must abandon his theological belief system.

Lastly, the bible says it in one little word,

“but made like unto the Son of God; abideth in priesthood continually.”

Like, likened, meaning to resemble, if  Melchisedec was the Son of God then the bible would have said he was the Son of God.

He was likened unto the Son of God because he couldn't have been called the Son of God until God used the holy spirit to conceive Jesus in Mary's womb. Scripture tells uses the same terminology to describe Christ's "resemblance" to God. Does that mean He isn't also God? NO!

Let’s say a person beauty is likened unto that of an English rose in the early morning of spring sun, does no mean that person is a rose!  Get my meaning?

Yes, I get what you mean, but neither this passage or book are parabolic.

May God's power, grace and peace be with you,

Ron

[Anne]

Rebel shall we agree to disagree, you believe this priest was Christ, i do not, we are both strong in our beliefs, and as such may find ourselves misinterpreting what the other is saying, just to prove a point.

You said "Amazing how far so called "theological scholars" will go to fit God into their little "belief" boxes."

That's not a very nice thing to say Rebel, but i love you anyway.

Your friend in Christ Jesus

Anne

[Guest Colossians]

Melchizadek was Christ.

1. He had no beginning.

2. He was worshipped.

3. He received tithes.

4. He blessed Abraham.

5. He was greater than Abraham.

6. He is given preeminence by the writer of Hebrews in both the account, and over Abraham.

I do not recall one instance in the OT that ANYONE has seen the Lord.

Probably because you haven't read Ex 24:10.

Probably also because you haven't understood that one of the men who sat with Abraham eating in his tent before Sodom, was Christ.

Statements by individuals, other than God, I believe are not accurate, such as Jacob's. He wrestled with an "angel of the Lord"

Jacob wrestled with Christ: "I have seen God face to face".

Edited November 20, 2004 by Colossians

[Guest PistosHuios]

This is what my New King James Bible says...

Melchizidek is a type of Christ in his high priestly ministry.

Like  Melchizidek Jesus Christ is a universal priest, and he is at once both Priest and King. The silence concerning Melchizidek's ancestry, pedigree, birth and deathillustrates the eternal and changeless priesthood of Christ.

The fact that Abraham paid tithes to, and was blessed by Melchizidek shows Melchizidek's superiority. Thus he is a true typical representative of Christ who is alive forever more.

Yomotalking

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is by far the most accurate and profitable of all the answers to this question.