So how many times should I turn my cheek?

[LessThan Any]

Giving specific answers to hypothetical questions may get us into trouble. We are not be led by the Bible alone. An atheist can use the Bible alone to judge a persons actions. There are thousands of denominations based on the Bible because of a mixed message coming not from the Spirit alone, but the Holy Spirit mixed with the spirit of man.

 

The Holy Ghost in a person's heart is to lead us by bringing the Word to Life within us so that when the time comes to make a decision it will as Jesus made all of His decisions, correctly in the eyes of God.

 

If we decide that our limit is 2 times or even 7 times, or whatever number we in our carnal minds decide, we are wrong. It is not in man that walks to direct his own steps (Jerem 10:23). 

 

God should be the One deciding when to apply mercy and when to apply vengeance, which is His. Is defense different? Perhaps, but the lead of the Holy Ghost is always, or should always, be in us to make the correct decision, God's decision for the moment. Give God the glory! 

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

 

me? well it certainly isn't my place to hold anything against anyone because my judgement has no eternal significance.

besides, anything done to me in unrighteousness will end up working towards my best interests.  why not forgive, and rejoice in my tribulation as i am exhorted to?

 

Rom 12:20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

 

 

what then would you say, does withholding forgiveness imply if not a lack of love in some form?

Maybe we need to look at little deeper into this.

 

I have already shown how God loved us before we came to repentance so withholding forgiveness does not imply a lack of love.

 

We become forgiven by God after we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ.

 

Act 10:42-43  And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.  (43)  To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

 

There is no remission ( forgiveness ) of sins until we believe. There is no belief until we repent they are hand in hand.  

 

Mar_1:15  And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

 

BBTB can you tell me why you will forgive without repentance when God will not ? Maybe you have a scripture that suggests God forgives without repentance please post it for consideration.

 

brother nin,

 

the discrepancy is in how i have defined a withholding of forgiveness then.  thank you for clarifying this for me.

 

God's forgiveness, while contingent upon repentance and belief, is only granted through an act of pure and self-less love.

 

but if God withheld that avenue of reconciliation for us to be able to repent, then that would truly be withholding forgiveness.  a true withdrawal of mercy.  an indefinite prohibition of God's forgiveness would indeed be loveless.

 

so i can agree with you, God's withholding of forgiveness does not imply a lack of love.

but that's God.

 

can you honestly love the assassin of your child without forgiving him?  how pure do you believe that love would be?

would he have to show some form of remorse for you to do so?

 

or do you believe the more righteous action would be to forgive, and allow God to sort out his heart?

 

--------

 

my answer to your question was in what you quoted of me:

 

 

 it certainly isn't my place to hold anything against anyone because my judgement has no eternal significance.

 

whether or not this person's heart was grieved enough to repent for their actions, is not my place to judge.  i am not worthy of condemning another.

 

in other words, what could i possibly hope to achieve in not forgiving someone?

 

love to you.

[CAP73]

I recently started a new job and my boss has, what my dad would call, "little big man's disease.  He is very verbally offensive to me.  I never said a word, but it was so bad that three of my co-workers went and told the manager about it.  The manager called me in and told me that it would not be tolerated at all.  I simply told her, "I don't respect him enough that what he says offends me.  My problem is, he's not teaching me how to do the job".  Just my two cents.  Spend with care.

[Guest ninhao]

 

brother nin,

 

the discrepancy is in how i have defined a withholding of forgiveness then.  thank you for clarifying this for me.

 

God's forgiveness, while contingent upon repentance and belief, is only granted through an act of pure and self-less love.

 

but if God withheld that avenue of reconciliation for us to be able to repent, then that would truly be withholding forgiveness.  a true withdrawal of mercy.  an indefinite prohibition of God's forgiveness would indeed be loveless.

 

so i can agree with you, God's withholding of forgiveness does not imply a lack of love.

but that's God.

 

can you honestly love the assassin of your child without forgiving him?  how pure do you believe that love would be?

would he have to show some form of remorse for you to do so?

 

or do you believe the more righteous action would be to forgive, and allow God to sort out his heart?

 

--------

 

my answer to your question was in what you quoted of me:

 

 

 it certainly isn't my place to hold anything against anyone because my judgement has no eternal significance.

 

whether or not this person's heart was grieved enough to repent for their actions, is not my place to judge.  i am not worthy of condemning another.

 

in other words, what could i possibly hope to achieve in not forgiving someone?

 

love to you.

 

 

Yes I can honestly say I will love the assassin without forgiving him. This is what God requires from me.

 

Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

It is much harder to love someone who shows no remorse but this is the lesson Jesus taught.

 

Luk_23:34  Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

 

I think the righteous action is the way God has showed us.  We are taught to love people not withstanding their repentance status.

 

Rom_5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

I think we need to look closely at this God wishes all to be saved.

 

1Ti 2:3-4  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;  (4)  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

Therfor God calls all people to repent and believe the Gospel with the gain salvation.

Concerning the repentance of someone who sins against us what will we achieve by not forgiving. We will achieve the call to repentance and a clear conscience. Think for a moment of a world in which we do not expect repentance but forgive regardless. Why would a person ever repent ?

 

Don't confuse un forgiveness with a lack of love Brother BBTB but think of it as a call to repentance which may not come unless provoked. ( please forgive the formatting I repent of it's messiness )

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

 

Yes I can honestly say I will love the assassin without forgiving him. This is what God requires from me.

Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 

It is much harder to love someone who shows no remorse but this is the lesson Jesus taught.

 

Luk_23:34  Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

 

 

I think the righteous action is the way God has showed us.  We are taught to love people not withstanding their repentance status.

 

Rom_5:8  But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

I think we need to look closely at this God wishes all to be saved.

 

1Ti 2:3-4  For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;  (4)  Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

Therfor God calls all people to repent and believe the Gospel with the gain salvation.

Concerning the repentance of someone who sins against us what will we achieve by not forgiving. We will achieve the call to repentance and a clear conscience. Think for a moment of a world in which we do not expect repentance but forgive regardless. Why would a person ever repent ?

 

Don't confuse un forgiveness with a lack of love Brother BBTB but think of it as a call to repentance which may not come unless provoked.

 

 

i don't believe i could say that i love him unconditionally without forgiving him.

i don't believe Christ asked the Father to forgive them, without Christ having already forgiven.

 

regardless, you must admit there is big bridge between the comparison we are trying to justify here.

we are talking about God's creation made in His image desecrating and bringing a curse upon the habitation made for him, and simultaneously condemning himself to eternal damnation.  man sinning against a Holy God.

 

from there to not forgiving Billy at the job-site because he keeps calling you names is a bit of a stretch.

 

yes, i can appreciate the analogy, but can i love my enemy as myself while holding an apology over his head?  i would have to disagree.

my comprehension and application of love is simply not that pure.

 

a world in which we would not expect repentance...i would call lawless.  but i am not an active agent in that process by telling the boss about Billy, any more than the boss would be.

the only reason anyone would ever repent is because of the conviction God places in their heart.

that drawing on the hearts of men is not dependent upon our expectations.

[Guest ninhao]

the only reason anyone would ever repent is because of the conviction God places in their heart.

that drawing on the hearts of men is not dependent upon our expectations.

 

 

BBTB why do you think Jesus taught to expect repentance from our brothers ?

 

Mat 18:15-17  Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.  (16)  But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.  (17)  And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

[BlessedByTheBest]

because as the body of Christ, we are held accountable to each other.

the 3-step method to seek repentance from one another is a method of accountability that does not offend in return.

 

if one believes God sent His only begotten son to crucifixion, how could one not repent?

and so repentance is expected among us because we are to forgive each other as our Father has forgiven us.

 

a brother who refuses to see he has sinned against his own, is to be considered a heathen.

[Guest ninhao]

because as the body of Christ, we are held accountable to each other.

the 3-step method to seek repentance from one another is a method of accountability that does not offend in return.

 

if one believes God sent His only begotten son to crucifixion, how could one not repent?

and so repentance is expected among us because we are to forgive each other as our Father has forgiven us.

 

a brother who refuses to see he has sinned against his own, is to be considered a heathen.

 

OK BB ( if I may take the liberty of the abbreviation nic )

 

We both accept repentance is a requirement for forgiving a Brother. Why do you insist it isn't a requirement for forgiving a non believer ?

[BlessedByTheBest]

 

because as the body of Christ, we are held accountable to each other.

the 3-step method to seek repentance from one another is a method of accountability that does not offend in return.

 

if one believes God sent His only begotten son to crucifixion, how could one not repent?

and so repentance is expected among us because we are to forgive each other as our Father has forgiven us.

 

a brother who refuses to see he has sinned against his own, is to be considered a heathen.

 

OK BB ( if I may take the liberty of the abbreviation nic )

 

We both accept repentance is a requirement for forgiving a Brother. Why do you insist it isn't a requirement for forgiving a non believer ?

 

 

you can call me meat-head if you like, i won't be offended. 

i don't think i am insisting otherwise, i am only sharing my perspective and raising a few questions.

has anyone ever asked you for forgiveness long after you forgave them? 

 

but to satisfy your question, an unregenerate person is simply not held to the same standards expected of the brethren.

i wouldn't expect a non-believer to, for example, make fun of me for Christ's glory in Christ's name.

 

Col 3:17  And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

 

am i saying a Christian should forgive them without seeing a show of remorse? yes i think a Christian should, but i can understand if you do not.

 

in fact, i would thank the Lord and seek guidance as to why they were placed in my path and how i should go about dealing with them as if there was never an offense.

[Guest ninhao]

you can call me meat-head if you like, i won't be offended. 

i don't think i am insisting otherwise, i am only sharing my perspective and raising a few questions.

has anyone ever asked you for forgiveness long after you forgave them? 

 

but to satisfy your question, an unregenerate person is simply not held to the same standards expected of the brethren.

i wouldn't expect a non-believer to, for example, make fun of me for Christ's glory in Christ's name.

 

Col 3:17  And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

 

am i saying a Christian should forgive them without seeing a show of remorse? yes i think a Christian should, but i can understand if you do not.

 

in fact, i would thank the Lord and seek guidance as to why they were placed in my path and how i should go about dealing with them as if there was never an offense.

 

 

Ok meat head I accept your explanation,

 

God bless you as always,

 

love from nincompoop