The Law and incest.....

[MissPlaced_56]

The passage that deals with incest in the Bible is as follows I believe. There may be others.

 

Lev. 18:6-18

 

⁶ ‘None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord. ⁷ The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness. ⁸ The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness. ⁹ The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover. ¹⁰ The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness. ¹¹ The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness. ¹² You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is near of kin to your father. ¹³ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is near of kin to your mother. ¹⁴ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother. You shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. ¹⁵ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law—she is your son’s wife—you shall not uncover her nakedness. ¹⁶ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. ¹⁷ You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness. They are near of kin to her. It is wickedness. ¹⁸ Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.

 

God bless,

GE

Golden Eagle,thank you so much for your input here....as usual very well put!!.. and much appreciated!!

[Aldebaran]

I appreciate the concerns that the OP shared because it's definitely a valid question in light of how things are going in our society.  In the interest of full disclosure, I must tell you that I am married to my first cousin and have been for 20 years.  We have two delightful children, 17 and 18 years old, who are in perfect health and exceptionally bright.  I am also an evangelical Christian and while I'm no Charles Spurgeon, I am probably more familiar with God's Bible than a few others.

 

In the Genesis account, we see several instances of cousin marriage, as we should expect.  It's probably obvious to anyone who reads the account of Noah that his grandsons would have had to marry his granddaughters (cousins but probably not siblings).  The most famous Genesis cousin marriage was Jacob who married both of his uncle's daughters (his first cousins).  Of course, his grandfather, Abraham, married his own half-sister, something that would later be prohibited when Moses received the Law (Leviticus), so we cannot conclude from Jacob's account or these others that we are still permitted to marry cousins.  For that, we must look toward the Law handed down to Moses.

 

It is true that the Bible admonishes us to avoid incestuous relationships and with great penalty, depending on the degree of consanguinity (loosely, shared blood).  It's important to note that immediately after God commanded Moses that no one is to approach anyone "close of kin", He then defined for Moses exactly what that meant.  He specifically mentioned ancestor/descendant relations (i.e., father/daughter, mother/son, grandparent/grandchild).  He also mentioned step-parent/step-child (something some of our states actually permit, provided both are consenting adults) and aunt/nephew relations (also permitted in some jurisdictions).  What is not mentioned in the Levitical prohibition is cousin marriage in any degree (1st, 2nd, 3rd, and so on).  This is important because we're talking about instructions of what to do and not to do that came from the same God who gave very detailed instructions, right down to the finest detail, of how to build the tabernacle and its furnishings.  Cousin marriage isn't just some accidental omission that's wrapped up in the first line ("close of kin") with the rest being only for example's sake.  What followed, as described above, were very detailed prohibitions.

 

When we fast-forward to Numbers 36, written as an account of events that occurred long after Moses received the Law, we see that God specifically ordained the marriage of several women to their male cousins with the idea being the preservation of inheritance.  Clearly, God had no problem with cousin marriage 40 years after giving the Moses the Law.  Those are the easy examples but if you read through the many genealogies that follow, you'll notice that there are others.  

 

You'll also notice that even when Paul expands on the definition of sinful relations in Romans to include female homosexual acts which are not mentioned in Leviticus, that he did not also include cousin marriage.  In other words, there is no added New Testament prohibition.  Indeed, one could argue that the New Testament concept of "Christian Liberty" opens a lot of doors where the Law is concerned.

 

So, that begs the question: why is it so common in Christian circles for us to hold such a strong repulsion toward cousin marriage?  To answer that, we must look to it in two parts.  First, we must look at Church history.  Cousin marriage was quite common and not a consideration until several hundred years after the New Testament Church was formed at the Pentacost.  What changed?  The Roman Catholic Church (or at the time, The Church) had fallen prey to the secular philosophies of the period as well as to the power struggles common of any large Earthly organization that is run by people.

 

The influence of secular philosophies of the period caused the Church to view the material as fallen and sinful but the soul as a separate and inherently "good" nature.  This led to a belief that one must deny all of the material (that which God created) except for the bare minimum necessary for providing a vessel for the more pure soul, which added a great many sexual prohibitions, eliminating marriage from the priesthood and proscribing abstinence even in marriage.  Indeed, married couples were told on what days of the week or month that they should abstain from sexual relations and these prohibitions grew to six or more days a week.

 

Combine this with the reach for power.  As Christianity spread, it found that toppling existing structures of government in favor of a Church-ordained government was difficult because most communities tended to operate in "clannish" ways, much like you will find if you visit present-day Pakistan.  The Church leaders of the day saw this as an impediment to the Church's ability to extend its influence so it added to Canon Law (separate of Biblical Law) a prohibition of marriage to the 7th degree of consanguinity (3rd or 4th cousins, depending on interpretation).  Over the following centuries, this was rolled back gradually, with the Roman Catholic Church (RCC) removing prohibition of second cousins in my lifetime and permitting first cousin marriage with appropriate dispensation.

 

The Reformation brought us great thinkers, like John Calvin, who believed that each person should be educated sufficiently to be able to read and interpret the Scriptures without the need of a priest.  The Scriptures were translated into local languages; under the RCC, they were translated from their original Greek and Hebrew into Latin, the language of the specially educated, making them inaccessible to the common man, even if he could read and write in his own language.  In time, many Protestant communities adopted marriage laws and traditions that reflected what they found in the Scriptures.  This is why some states have laws that permit cousin marriage.

 

Now, fast-forward once again to the age of Charles Darwin and the subsequent Eugenics movement.  Darwin, ironically married to his own first cousin and the product himself of cousin marriage, came to believe that cousin marriage was harmful.  Using what would later be debunked as dubious and erroneous science, the Eugenicists implored states to adopt more restrictive laws, believing that children born of cousin marriage were "feeble minded" and worse.  They believed what they were doing was for the greater good of a superior society and many of their laws, including prohibitions on interracial marriage, were stricken from the books.  Only laws prohibiting cousin marriage remain.

 

How does this pass down over time?  Well, consider the story of the newlywed woman who wanted to make a roast for her young groom.  She had never made one before so she called her mother.  Her mother told her to get a roasting pan, cut off the ends of the roast and put it in the pan.  The daughter asked, "why would I cut off the ends?"  The mother answered, "well, that's how your grandma taught me to make a roast."  The daughter pressed, "but why would she do that?"  The mother replied, "well, I don't know.  Let's get her on a 3-way call and ask her.  The granddaughter called her grandmother and asked, "Grandma, Mom is on the phone with me and she's helping me make a roast.  She told me to cut the ends off and I just wondered why."  The grandmother replied, "well, I don't know why you do it, but when I married your grandfather, we didn't have a roasting pan big enough, so I cut of the ends to make it fit!"

 

The moral of the story is, of course, that we often adopt what we learn without even realizing why we believe what we do.  So, in light of the centuries of Church prohibition and the Eugenics movement, it's easy to see why we find such a strong revulsion to cousin marriage, even in Reformed churches.  We were simply raised that way.

[Guest]

How does this pass down over time?  Well, consider the story of the newlywed woman who wanted to make a roast for her young groom.  She had never made one before so she called her mother.  Her mother told her to get a roasting pan, cut off the ends of the roast and put it in the pan.  The daughter asked, "why would I cut off the ends?"  The mother answered, "well, that's how your grandma taught me to make a roast."  The daughter pressed, "but why would she do that?"  The mother replied, "well, I don't know.  Let's get her on a 3-way call and ask her.  The granddaughter called her grandmother and asked, "Grandma, Mom is on the phone with me and she's helping me make a roast.  She told me to cut the ends off and I just wondered why."  The grandmother replied, "well, I don't know why you do it, but when I married your grandfather, we didn't have a roasting pan big enough, so I cut of the ends to make it fit!"

 

The moral of the story is, of course, that we often adopt what we learn without even realizing why we believe what we do.  So, in light of the centuries of Church prohibition and the Eugenics movement, it's easy to see why we find such a strong revulsion to cousin marriage, even in Reformed churches.  We were simply raised that way.

 

lol

 

~

 

Welcome~!

[Aldebaran]

 

 

Welcome~!

 

 

Thank you! 

[GoldenEagle]

 

The passage that deals with incest in the Bible is as follows I believe. There may be others.

 

Lev. 18:6-18

 

⁶ ‘None of you shall approach anyone who is near of kin to him, to uncover his nakedness: I am the Lord. ⁷ The nakedness of your father or the nakedness of your mother you shall not uncover. She is your mother; you shall not uncover her nakedness. ⁸ The nakedness of your father’s wife you shall not uncover; it is your father’s nakedness. ⁹ The nakedness of your sister, the daughter of your father, or the daughter of your mother, whether born at home or elsewhere, their nakedness you shall not uncover. ¹⁰ The nakedness of your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, their nakedness you shall not uncover; for theirs is your own nakedness. ¹¹ The nakedness of your father’s wife’s daughter, begotten by your father—she is your sister—you shall not uncover her nakedness. ¹² You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s sister; she is near of kin to your father. ¹³ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your mother’s sister, for she is near of kin to your mother. ¹⁴ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your father’s brother. You shall not approach his wife; she is your aunt. ¹⁵ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your daughter-in-law—she is your son’s wife—you shall not uncover her nakedness. ¹⁶ You shall not uncover the nakedness of your brother’s wife; it is your brother’s nakedness. ¹⁷ You shall not uncover the nakedness of a woman and her daughter, nor shall you take her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, to uncover her nakedness. They are near of kin to her. It is wickedness. ¹⁸ Nor shall you take a woman as a rival to her sister, to uncover her nakedness while the other is alive.

 

God bless,

GE

Golden Eagle,thank you so much for your input here....as usual very well put!!.. and much appreciated!!

 

 

Sure no problem sister. Here’s how I view this passage:

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our mother or father naked. Vs. 7

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our father's wife naked. Vs. 8

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our father's daughter or mother's daughter naked. In other words our sister or half sister. I believe on the flip side this can also be applied to our brother or half brother. Vs. 9

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our father's daughter or mother's daughter naked. In other words our grandchildren. Vs. 10

 

Again we should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our half sister naked. Can also apply to half brother. Vs. 11

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our aunt who is our father’s sister naked.  Vs. 12

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our aunt who is our mother’s sister naked. Vs. 13

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our father’s brother or his wife naked. Again the idea of aunt or uncle. Vs. 14

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our children’s spouse naked. Vs. 15

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our sister in law naked. Vs. 16

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) a woman’s daughter naked. Nor should we take a woman’s granddaughter as a wife. Vs. 17

 

We should not look upon (and by inference have sexual relations with) our wife’s sister naked. Vs. 18

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Notice also what is not mentioned: cousins.

[Guest LadyC]

Aldebaran, you've summed up everything very nicely. i see you're new here... how did you happen upon worthy at just the right time? LOL, i would have thought maybe you were from cousincouples.com, but i don't recognize you from there, either. well put, though, you're very knowledgeable! so welcome to worthy... and if you join over there, welcome there too!

[Guest LadyC]

Missplaced_56, i have to tell ya... it was quite a surprise to see this thread. i've wondered for years when my two "virtual worlds" would collide, so to speak. when i first came here, i contacted one of the staff and shared my story, because i'd been shunned from a few christian boards because my email address at the time referenced another site that i used to run... a sister site to cousincouples, one that was more dedicated to trying to educate lawmakers. anyway, i contacted someone here before ever posting on the board, to make sure that i wouldn't be rejected. i wasn't... but it's not a subject that i talked about here on the boards either.

 

anyway, i want you to know that you are not alone in your thoughts towards cousin marriage. even among christians, although nobody here has been negative about it, there are a lot who oppose it, and i'm sure they'll show up here. anyway, i'm not offended by your repulsion. i do hope that you'll open your heart, and really pray about this and see what God reveals to you. i'm not expecting you to take my word for anything. i know this sounds weird, but i feel kinda bad for you that at this point, nobody has backed up or validated your concerns! while i sure can't and won't do that, i do understand where you're coming from. (there was a time when i felt like you did! and when i fell in love with mark, i threw myself into prayer and into the bible, waiting for God to bring down that sledge-hammer telling me "NO"... which is when i started discovering how common it was in scripture and realized God wasn't condemning me.) 

 

so really, i just want to give you a virtual hug, and tell you not to feel bad about starting this thread and voicing your opinion.

 

by the way, can you tell me what show it was that your daughter watched? it's possible that i may have appeared on it.  earlier in our marriage i did a number of tv interviews. one for 20/20 with john stossel, one for a news show that was hosted by shepard smith (from fox news... the show was called "the pulse"), and a couple of others that i can't even remember it's been so long.

[KC02]

Wow! There has been a surprising amount of positive information posted here about cousin marriage. This has been especially interesting to see the public's reaction, especially Christians, to such a union. I personally edited the following page; I think it gives a fairly good overview of Biblical marriages between cousins. The first thing I learned at Bible college was that Joseph & Mary were related. Either they were 1st cousins or possibly 1/2 first cousins. We can't tell from the Biblical text. More here: http://www.cousincouples.com/?page=religion

 

Negative reactions toward cousin marriages are a distinctly American thing judging from civil laws (i.e. no European country prohibits cousin marriages). The Catholic Church banned cousin marriages to the nth degree once. It appears to be the result of wanting more power and control over clannish groups as someone else has already pointed out. Today you can get a dispensation any marry a cousin if you are Catholic. I'm unaware of any Protestant group that refuses to marry cousins.

Someone pointed out that it could be sinful if you feel condemned about it (Rom 14), but then again, so could chewing gum. I agree with the general premise, however. Concerning Titus 3:1, cousins rarely commit incest. Incest is predicated upon a state’s prohibition of cousin marriage. In other words, if it’s not illegal, then it can’t, by definition, be incest. However I agree that we should generally obey the laws of the land so long they don’t contradict God’s Law.  Laws against cousin marriage are contrary to God’s Law or at least amends it. In any case, cousins can always find a nearby state to marry them if their state prohibits it.

 

FWI, I’m not proselytizing for cousin marriage, only for Jesus. I don’t suggest that anyone pursue their cousin. Marriage is complicated enough without the extra drama that comes when cousins marry. Most people you will meet in heaven will be ones who have married a cousin. As Christie pointed out, historically, 80 percent of all marriages have been between cousins.

 

There is nothing wrong with it, although it is a little odd in our culture for cousins to hook up and marry. Please cut us some slack since God is fine with it. Finally, the increased risk of cousins having a baby with a birth defect is about the same as a woman over 40 having a baby (1.7 – 2.4) increased risk. Scientists conclude that does not put cousins in any special group to be concerned about. The laws in the USA that prohibit cousin marriage predate modern genetics, which were just being discovered in the 1960’s onward. So, the laws were based upon inaccurate information and an unfounded fear that their offspring would be inferior (to put it mildly).

[LadyKay]

When people talk about incests I think of a father and daughter or brother and sister. I have never consider being allowed to marry your cousin incests. I am fairly sure that if we all took a really good look at are family trees, there is most likley a  counsin in there somewhere.

Edited July 12, 2013 by LadyKay