The Law and incest.....

[MissPlaced_56]

LadyC,

Let me explain this a little better to you,When i first began researchin this , i was thinkin that this guy in Georgia had found some antiquated law on the books in Georgia.....Every State has these on their books like the one in NEw Jersey  that states that it's ILLEGAL to pump your own Gas...In MARYLAND, in Baltimore it is ILLEGAL to take a LION to the movies..lol

This is what i was expecting to find.....

AS it turned out this was not the case at all.....as i mentioned early in my reply to you all, i'm not blind, nor am i uneducated in these matters,perhaps a little better educated now....and as i also said,I've seen both sides of this coin played out in my own family....

Lets take the Ashkenzai Jewish Community for example... the horrifying side of this coin is played out everyday,and it's victims pay a horrible price.

aww but you say,this doesn't impact me and your right it doesn't....WE have to look no further in the USA then The DuPonts...they've done agreat job of white washing this issue,but their Spiffy Hospital was Built in the first place to "House" their victims of this tragedy .....aww but you say this doesn't effect me either....and again your right.....BUT IT DOES EFFECT THOUSANDS OF INNOCENT CHILDREN EVERY SINGLE DAY!

aww but you say,we're not in a blood to blood marriage, right again, you're not...but you cannot deny that this issue is real...and no matter how rare it is in your case, there is still that chance that it just as easily could have happened to you.......aww but that doesn't effect me... yes it does.....just because the risk is small and in most cases like yours the risk is no greater then one of your children being born lets say if your a white couple, you give birth to a black child or visa versa...is it rare??yes...Does it happpen?? YES!.. because it's somewhere in your gene code period.

So now perhaps you will better understand my concern over this matter.....I really don't care who marries who....thats really none of my business....IF your happy as a clam in sauce GBU

thats between you , your espoused and GOD...

 MY main concern is the frightening game of Russian Roulette that leaves innocent victims in it's wake..... because there voices go all to often unheard.........

GBU  Sister

Edited July 15, 2013 by MissPlaced_56

[Guest LadyC]

missplaced, i'm sorry i misunderstood. apparently we're not good.

 

you seem overly concerned about the genetics. more so than even the leading genetic experts in the world. there are far more "at risk" couples than cousins, and you seem to ignore this. for me, i think every couple should get genetic counseling to determine what problems their children might be at risk for. 

 

in societies where cousin marriage is preferred (and that is the case in many ares of the middle east), the risks increase after several generations of cousin marriage. this is not a fact i dispute. it's also a fact that bears no relevance to the vast majority of cousins who marry (which account for approximately only 1% of marriages in THIS country). and another consideration, one known well not only to the DuPont family, but the Rockefeller family, to the family behind Max Factor (forget heir name), is that cousin marriage can also strengthen the odds of favorable traits in the family bloodline... mental, physical, etc. the key is to know what genes are recessive... to know if two people are carrying an identical defective gene, or whether they're both carrying desirable recessive genes. this, believe it or not, is commonly practiced by animal breeders. the mating of horses, cattle, dogs, etc. who are related no closer than the equivalent of a first cousin is what produces the best offspring. it comes down to being knowledgeable about what genes each carry. seriously, you can look that up for verification.

 

people who have children without knowing wha lurks in their dna take risks. it doesn't matter if the couple are cousins or not. i'm quite certain you did not have genetic counseling or testing before having your children. that is as much russian roulette as a couple of cousins.

 

you have some idea of genetics, but sadly, you don't have as great a knowledge as you think you have. having a couple somewhere in your family tree who married a cousin, one of whom lost a baby, does not give you any expertise. you acknowledged you have no idea what the baby died from. was it a result of the parents being cousins? possibly, but extremely unlikely. your reaction is emotional. and that's OK. i'm not holding it against you. but i'm sad that you feel the need to feign concern about the "russian roulette that leaves innocent victims in its wake", while you have no such concerns about people who may have a far greater risk of passing deliterious genes to their children. would you advocate that a woman over 38 or 40 should not get pregnant? (much higher risk than cousins...) would you advocate that a person who might have (or have an ancestor who had) the X-linked hemophilia, or the dominant gene for huntington's disease, should not marry? (also much higher risk...)  would you advocate that two european jews should not marry? (identical risk percentage as cousins) i'm sad that you try to mask personal bias and judgment with this so-called concern, because that concern is neither warranted nor legitimate. it's ok to have and admit to a personal disdain for something. just call it what it is.

 

so anyway i guess we're not good, since you have twice now rebuffed my reaching out to you in conciliation. i hope some day your disapproval of me will be erased, and perhaps we can be friends. but for now i won't make any further effort. thank you for at least being willing to open your heart to what God has to say on the subject. 

Edited July 15, 2013 by LadyC

[MissPlaced_56]

LadyC,

We ARE GOOD....

You Dear sister read far more into my explanation to you,then there actually is....

GBU

[missmuffet]

Their are many examples of incest in the Bible.Until God commanded against it,it was not incest.God allowed incest to populate the world.It is a sin today.It causes many problems including genetic problems.It needs to be looked at pre-Law and post-Law.

[KC02]

I thought we were talking about cousin marriage, not incest. I would like to point out to MissPlaced that every couple plays Russian roulette when having a child. The average couple has about a two percent chance of having a baby with a birth defect.

One book I read estimated that marrying one from you own race increases the chances 1 percent. Another 1 percent if you marry someone from the same hometown. I think the book was dated, but it sounds fairly reasonable. In this country, the birth defect hysteria played out in the Eugenic movement. We would sterilize anyone who we thought may have inferior children. At some point, sanity was restored, and this unethical practice ended. Apparently, this was practiced into the 1970 's! http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-06-23-eugenics-carrie-buck_N.htm?csp=usat.me

To be clear, nobody here is defending incest which is clearly prohibited in God's Word. Are we on the same page?

[missmuffet]

I thought we were talking about cousin marriage, not incest. I would like to point out to MissPlaced that every couple plays Russian roulette when having a child. The average couple has about a two percent chance of having a baby with a birth defect.

One book I read estimated that marrying one from you own race increases the chances 1 percent. Another 1 percent if you marry someone from the same hometown. I think the book was dated, but it sounds fairly reasonable. In this country, the birth defect hysteria played out in the Eugenic movement. We would sterilize anyone who we thought may have inferior children. At some point, sanity was restored, and this unethical practice ended. Apparently, this was practiced into the 1970 's! http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2009-06-23-eugenics-carrie-buck_N.htm?csp=usat.me

To be clear, nobody here is defending incest which is clearly prohibited in God's Word. Are we on the same page?

Isn't cousin marriage and incest the same thing?Their is a high incidence of incest among the Amish.They have problems with this among children that are born with problems.

[Guest LadyC]

bopeep, that's what this thread has been about. no, cousin marriage is not considered incestuous by Biblical definition. it's not considered incestuous by medical definitions. and in the majority of the world and more than half the states, it is also not legally defined as incest. 

 

that being said, half the states do prohibit cousin marriage. of those, only a few of the 25 prohibitive states include it in their laws defining incestuous relationships.

 

until 1860 or thereabouts, it was not illegal anywhere in the united states. the eugenics movement was responsible for getting some states to pass laws forbidding it, in an effort to stop the rapid assimilation of immigrants... and so some doctor named bemiss was hired by the government to do "studies" that would not cut the mustard by today's scientific standards saying that cousin marriages were dangerous. most states actually didn't buy into the misinformation bemiss handed over to the government, and refused to pass such laws... but a few did. over the next few generations, however, as it became far less common due to american mobility and families becoming geographically distant, public distaste grew... and for this reason, legislation still occasionally gets passed banning cousin marriage.

 

so by any definition, it is not incest. there is a lot of misinformation out there. i've provided accurate and well researched info in this thread, and others have too. i do hope you'll go back and re-read it.

 

the biggest question here should really be.... if God doesn't frown on it, why should christians redefine it? and if the genetics field finds no medical reason to prohibit it, and most of the states and, in fact, almost every other country in the world, find no legal reason to prohibit it, then why should the secular world condemn it either?

[revolutionist90]

Just to clarify: it is still wrong for heterosexual/homosexual incest between child and parent correct? Also the old testament can be rationalized since there were so few people around so how could one actually find another person. But what about in the new testament?

[Guest LadyC]

revolutionist, incest is still wrong, and it is clearly defined in scripture as those who are direct ascendants, descendants, and siblings. homosexual relationships are also still wrong, although that is not at all the subject of this thread. so to answer your question, yes, whether hetero- or homo- sexual relationships between a parent and child is incestuous and forbidden. God was pretty clear and specific and left no room for doubt. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, it stands to reason that if he had changed his mind about cousin marriages, He'd have made sure it got in the new testament, don't you think? 

 

the truth is, people can cling to mankind's prejudices based on information, or they can settle for what God spelled out. there was no shortage of people in the old testament. biblical scholars who are better with numbers than i am estimate that the number of israelites alone were close to 2 million at the time of the exodus. and it was to moses whom God gave the laws regarding sexual conduct to. it was also moses through whom God commanded the marriages of five women to their first cousins.

 

the NT makes no mention of any prohibited relationships that are not already mentioned in the OT. the lack of anything specifically stated in the NT is not evidence that God no longer allows cousin marriage. to the contrary, the lack of it is evidence that God STILL allows cousin marriage.

 

so the old saying goes, if God is for us, who can stand against us. that applies as much here as it does in the context where it is found in scripture. if God is ok with it, who is society to condemn it? 

 

your questions make me wonder if you are a NT-only believer. would you mind sharing your answer to that?

[missmuffet]

No,the Bible does not say anything about cousins marrying.But it is not safe.Especially first cousins.Their can be genetic problems.Most nations have strict law regarding first cousins marrying.The Bible tells us to obey the laws.I am not sure about second cousins.