No Scripture Identifies the Time for the Rapture

[iamlamad]

Lord avenge the person (scum) who just killed my son (daughter, wife, husband, mother or father).  Avenge their blood.  Be careful, for this same person (scum) may eventually become a believer in Christ.

 

What say you about having someone be given a full cup of vengeance.  Where is grace.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

Luke 6:27

But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

[His Ambassador]

If Christians would read Rev. 20 & 21 they would know what is going to happen in the end times and there would be no "rapture theory".

[ENOCH2010]

lamad no-one has been to "heaven" and returned

[iamlamad]

This thread is interesting. People cut snippets from scripture, often not including the context, and just seem to insert it into the future where is suits their pet doctrines. This seems to be the case very often, in this thread and others, with two ideas from scripture, especially:

 

No one knows the day nor the hour,

and

coming like a thief

What is interesting about the no one knows the day or the hour verse, is that many people try to apply it to indicate that a pre-trib rapture might be imminent. I find that to be rather gutsy, to apply a verse that is in the context of Jesus second coming after the tribulation to a pre-trb rapture that even pre-tribbers agree, is never mentioned in the passage.

 

It is understandable, since books and pastors and other sources have been doing that a lot in the last half century, why would people think any differently (unless they carefully read their bibles). What is really remarkable though, is how many people use that verse, even after being shown that their understanding is an error.

 

If we compare that verse to what Paul said, in 1 Thes. 5, it seems to say the same thing: Paul gave us the classic rapture verse, then three verses later said that the Day of the Lord comes as a theif in the night. Jesus said HE will come as a thief in the night. NO ONE knows when the thief comes, or they were be prepared. I think, then, these two phrases are really saying the same thing. So back to Paul: what was his intentions are putting the DAy of the Lord three verses after the rapture? It is very simple: Paul is speaking of a SUDDENLY. In Chapter 5 he gives us a perfect paradigm, comparing what happens to two groups of people at this sudden event. What IS this sudden event? It is the rapture. When the dead in Christ rise, in one microsecond or less, it will cause a great, worldwide earthquake, for the dead in Christ are found around the world. (See Matt. 27 where Jesus died and "the earth did quake ...and he graves were opened - and the earthquake when the two witnesses were raised.)

 

So at this sudden event, the rapture of the church, at a time of peace and safety, those in the darkness get the sudden destruction of a world wide earthquake, like nothing ever seen on earth before. But those in Christ do not get this earthquake, for they get "salvation" [rapture] and get to "live together with him (so shall we ever be with the Lord). Revelation is in perfect agreement with this. The fifth seal church age martyrs ask how long, and they are told they must wait for the very last martyr killed as they were, as CHURCH AGE martyrs. So WHEN will be the last church age martyr? Of couse at the END of the church age. What will END the church age? Of course, the rapture of the church will END the church age.  So they are told they must wait for the rapture. How amazing then, the rapture is between the 5th seal and the 6th, the VERY NEXT event, but not seen by John. What we see is the world wide earthquake at the 6th seal. That is the earthquake caused when the dead in Christ rise. It is no accident that John saw the church in heaven in the very next chapter.

 

Therefore, Paul teaches us that the rapture comes at a time of peace and safety and at a time when NO ONE KNOWS, as a thief in the night.

 

I understand that the pre-trib rapture doctrine is important to some, even more important than what the bible teaches, but I would think that they would use other verses, and not depend on mis-representing what scripture says. There is no possible way that verse is intended to imply a pre-trib rapture.

Not that it has not been said before, not that is is not already known by some here who abuse scripture, but for the sake of those who might be mislead, let's get the facts on the table once again.

 

ha ha! In fact, the bible TEACHES a pretrib rapture; just some have not seen it.  It is clear in 1 Thes. That the rapture comes as the trigger for the SIGNS of the Day of the Lord, as seen at the 6th seal.  As proof, John saw the church in heaven in chapter 7. But John does not open the 70th week (the 'trib') until the 7th seal. So clear as day, the rapture is PRETRIB.

 

 

From Matt 24:

 

 36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 "For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah. 38 "For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.

NASB

What is it that no one knows the day ot the hour of? Clearly, the verse is making a referance to some time that Jesus was just referring to.

 

What Jesus had just said was:

Matt 24:29-31

29 "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken,  30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. 31 "And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other. 

NASB

What do we see there? We see Jesus coming to gather His elect, and it says that it will be immediately after the tribulation. This is not interpretation, this is just reading what it plainly says. There is no rapture in view at all, UNLESS it is a post-trib rapture.

 

I agree, THERE IS NO RAPTURE in view. This is a gathering from HEAVEN and earth, while Paul's rapture gathers from the earth. Paul's rapture comes at a time of peace and safety, and it is CERTAINLY not a time of peace and safety when the planet is mostly destroyed and most of the sinners in it have been destroyed. NO ONE will be saying peace and safety after the tribulation of those days! Those left alive will be scared out of their witts, sitting in the dark, gnawing their tongues for pain. Next, clearly this gathering is after the days of GT, while Paul's rapture is before. They cannot be the same gathering.

 

So, to understand the text in the simplest way, without adding information that is not in the passage, we would understand that Jesus is coming to gather His elect, after the tribulation.  Agreed. But WHO are the elect here?

 

But then comes the objections: that the gathering of the elect here, cannot be the rapture, because no one knows the day or the hour, and if it is after the tribulation, they will know once the tribulation has begun, that His coming is imminent.

These objections are WRONG! There is NO TIME GIVEN as to how long after the days of tribulation! Jesus does NOT return at the 7th vial that ends the week. The marriage and supper take place in heaven AFTER the 70th week has concluded, and BEFORE Jesus gets on the white horse. Of a truth, NO ONE will know when He is coming, except His bride that will return with Him.

 

This of course is true, after the trib, His coming is imminent, however it is not imminent yet!

 

It is imminent, since His coming is at a time of peace and safety and will be the trigger for the DAy of the Lord, that begins at the end of chapter 6.

 

Is this good exegesis, to assume that this is not the rapture because people will know it is about to happen? No, it is horribly sloppy exegesis.

Agreed! VEry sloppy. The rapture at 4:1 is perhaps even sloppier!

 

Jesus said those words nearly 2000 years ago when the tribulation was going to be about 2000 years in the future or maybe a lot more. So, just as Jesus said, no one knew (in the present tense 2000 years ago).

He did not say that no one would ever know, did not say that those in the tribulation would not know, only that no one knew as of the time Jesus spoke those words. He never applied the 'no one knows' concept to future generations, so it is improper for us to do so now.

 

it is just as probable that Jesus still does not know the exact time, and is leaving this entirely up to the Father.

 

Now, just in case there was a chance that someone would come along and change Jesus words as if to say:

"no one will ever know the day or the hour", Jesus made sure that He could not be misunderstood, except by those who want to be deceived, or are willing to be deceived, or just arent paying close attention. This is ironic, since much of Matt 24, is about warnings not to be deceived, and the signs that will take place, so that people will know when the time is near, yet people manage to turn it around to say that no one will know, how sad.

 

Even without thinking the passage through. you know that He did not mean no one would ever know, unless we assume that even those who found themselves experiencing it, wouldn't know either.

 

OF COURSE people will know as they are being raptured, and those left behind will know it happened. But I still believe only the FAther knows the exact time. All of heaven is now waiting for His command to go get the bride. many people that have been to heaven and returned to write about it tell us this. It is written that something can be established with two or three witnesses. We have many more than that. Time and time again I have read from these personal witnesses: they were told that all of heaven is waiting on word from the FAther. IT fits what scripture says.

 

So, how did Jesus assure against misunderstanding? He told us it would be like in the days of Noah. And then he pointed us to some specifics:

 

Matt 24:38-40

38 "For as in those days which were before the flood they were eating and drinking, they were marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39 and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away; so shall the coming of the Son of Man be.

NASB

 

In the days  of Noah, there were two groups of people, the group that would be saved on the ark, and those who would be lost in the judgement of flood.

I don't think that was the point Jesus was making! His point was that they had NO CLUE as to timing: they were living life to the fullest, marrying, etc, right up until the day the rain came and floated them all away. When they got up that morning they had NO CLUE it was their last day on earth. I think this is the point Jesus was making. SAme point with Lot.

 

One group, was living life as normal, like nothing was going to happen, they were marrying and giving in marriage. Why would Jesus provide the details about this group marrying? Of what use is that detail? It is actually a key to understanding who the people in Noah's time are, and who they are not. There were 8 people saved on the ark, Noah and his wife, and Noah's three sons and their three wives. So, on the ark, were 8 people, all married. Therefore, we know that those who were marrying, was not Noah's family. and of those who are not Noah's family, it says:

"and they did not understand until the flood came and took them all away"

Of couse, we know that Noah understood, he and his family had been building the ark, because they knew the flood was coming. They were not surprised. Only the unbeleivers were surprised at being caught in the judgement of God,  while Noah and family, were safe from the wrath of God, even though they were not removed from the earth.

 

HIs point was they were living life just like almost everyone is doing today - with NO CLUE the rapture is imminent and it will bring the Day of the Lord. It will come SUDDENLY with no warning, just like in Noah's day, NO WARNING. Just like in Lot's day, NO WARNING. As Paul said, "as a thief in the night."

 

Luke gives us other details:

 

Luke 17:25-37

 26 "And just as it happened in the days of Noah, so it shall be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, they were marrying, they were being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 "It was the same as happened in the days of Lot: they were eating, they were drinking, they were buying, they were selling, they were planting, they were building; 29 but on the day that Lot went out from Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all. 30 "It will be just the same on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

 

 

(This shows again, that we are not looking at a pre-trib rapture, but at our Lord's revelation after the tribulation.) Notice that in Luke's version, it says of those who were being given in marriage, that "the flood came and destroyed them all."       Continuing:

 

Note, "UNTIL THE DAY" and "ON THE DAY."  His warning is about TIMING. They had no clue that was their LAST DAY on earth.  There is not even a HINT of a rapture here: this is speaking of the TIMING of His coming on the white horse. There is no rapture seen in Rev. 19, and the gathering in Matt. 24 is not the rapture.

 

31 "On that day, let not the one who is on the housetop and whose goods are in the house go down to take them away; and likewise let not the one who is in the field turn back. 32 "Remember Lot's wife. 33 "Whoever seeks to keep his life shall lose it, and whoever loses his life shall preserve it. 34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two men in one bed; one will be taken, and the other will be left. 35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken, and the other will be left. 36["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."]  37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?" And He said to them, "Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered." 

NASB

 

This "taken" here I believe is speaking of the parable of the tares taking place. The tares are taken.  This parable is NOT speaking about the rapture which will come 7 years previous.

 

This is the same conversation, and the same reference to Noah's time is made. If you read it carefully, and keep in mind that the ones taken, are the ones taken to destruction, not those on the ark, you will understand what is being said. Here we see verses that people sometimes use (mistakenly) and apply them to the rapture (whether pre-trib or post-trib or whatever. about "one taken the other left".

 

Agree, NO RAPTURE here.

 

People will say: "see! Two men will be in a field, one taken in the rapture, the other left behind"!

Look again carefull at the context, as in the days of Noah, some are taken (to destruction) some are left (in God's protection).

 

I think you have the WRONG Idea about Noah. Jesus comment was about TIMING, not about taken and left.

 

Now, if you are paying attention, Jesus just told us, that as in the days of Noah, some will be saved from destruction at His coming, while others will be taken. Those taken are not those in a rapture, they are taken to their deaths. Clearly Jesus knew people would still misunderstand this, that is why He gave these clues. However, He must think we are really dense (we are) because He gave us yet another clue to make it even more clear,

Again from Luke:

 

Luke 17:

34 "I tell you, on that night there will be two men in one bed; one will be taken, and the other will be left. 35 "There will be two women grinding at the same place; one will be taken, and the other will be left. 36["Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left."] 

37 And answering they said to Him, "Where, Lord?"

 

What are the desciples asking when they ask "where"?

two possibilities where are they left? or where are they taken to. We already know the are in beds, on roofs, in fields, no one needs to ask where they are left, the question is, where are the taken to.  Jesus tells them:

 "Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered." 

NASB

 

To answer their question "where?"  He said to them, "Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered." 

They are taken to their deaths, where their bodies will be feasted upon by vultures. Vultures and bodies are not a description of a rapture.

Now, if you still have the understanding that in the context of Matt 24, where the day and hour passage is,

where the context is Jesus second coming after the tribulation,

 

and that when Jesus said that no one 2000 years ago knew when His second coming after tribulation

 

would be actually means that:

 

'no one would ever know when a pre-trib rapture will be'

 

( a rapture that is never mentioned once in the whole passage,) then I think you are beyond hope  in terms of good exegesis.

 

I agree, this is NOT ABOUT Paul's rapture that comes 7 years before this. ONLY PAUL had the revelation of the rapture. We can find it NO WHERE ELSE. Not in Matt. 24, NOT in Luke 21 and NOT in Mark. John did not SEE the rapture so did not write about it, but he DID see the raptured church in heaven in chapter 7. Therefore, if we wish to know the TIMING of the rapture, there are only THREE places we can go, for only three places speak about the rapture. Paul's letters (1 & 2 Thes)  and John in Revelation 7.

 

However, please understand that this does not mean that your belief in a pre-trib rapture is wrong, it only means that that is not what is being taught in the Matt 24 context. I should also point out though, that even if this were teaching an at any moment coming, that any moment can also include a post-trib coming as a possibility. There is no proof, nor even evidence here, of a pre-trib coming, and now that you have seen that this context does not support a pre-trib rapture, if anything it is contra-indicated, you should cease using this passage that way, it is an abuse.

 

Agreed! Good exegesis, except I think you erred about the intent of Jesus with Noah and Lot.

 

The verses about 'coming like a thief', are also abused and stripped of their contexts, and are never applied to a pre-trib scenario. Let's get them all here for later referance:

 

1 Thess 5:1-7

5:1 Now as to the times and the epochs, brethren, you have no need of anything to be written to you. 2 For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night. 3 While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like birth pangs upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you like a thief; 5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness; 6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.

NASB

 

Note that this verse is only three verses AFTER the classic rapture verse! It does not take those in the light as a thief, because they are CAUGHT UP! (And they are watching!)

 

2 Peter 3:9-13

 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, on account of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! 13 But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

NASB

 

The day of the Lord comes as a thief, because the rapture comes as a thief (no one knows when) and it is the trigger for the signs of the day, and the Day will start soon after the signs.

 

Rev 3:2-4

2'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. 3'Remember therefore what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. If therefore you will not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you.

NASB

 

Rev 16:12-16

12 And the sixth angel poured out his bowl upon the great river, the Euphrates; and its water was dried up, that the way might be prepared for the kings from the east. 13 And I saw coming out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs; 14 for they are spirits of demons, performing signs, which go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them together for the war of the great day of God, the Almighty. 15("Behold, I am coming like a thief. Blessed is the one who stays awake and keeps his garments, lest he walk about naked and men see his shame.") 16 And they gathered them together to the place which in Hebrew is called Har-Magedon.

NASB

 

Did you notice, that there are 4 verses about Jesus coming like a thief? Did you notice that none of them are in the context of a pre-trib rapture? Did you notice that non of them is applied to a true follower of Jesus? In fact, did you notice the watchful, obedient Christians were specifically excluded? Did you notice these verses are all about coming in judgement?

 

I disagree. The one in 1 Thes. 5 is only 3 verses after the rapture, and Paul is STILL talking about the rapture. In chapter 5 he gives us the timing of the rapture. The day comes like a thief because the rapture comes as a thief. There will be NO WARNING. The world will only see the worldwide earthquake (as the dead in Christ are raised) and then following, the signs in the sun and moon, as in Joel 2 and Rev. 6.

 

I urge you brothers and sisters, when you hear people promoting the pre-trib rapture, and using these and other phrases, that you go immediately to your bibles, to see what the scripture actually says, instead of gathering teachers to yourselves, that tell you what your itching ears want to here. We were warned against this very thing:

 

I agree: there is only three  places to determine the timing of the pretrib rapture: Pauls two letters and John in Rev. 7.

 

1I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

 

Is the pre-trib rapture doctrine ear tickling? Sure it is. Therefore, be careful, perhaps it is one such myth that people in the latter times will come to embrace instead of sound doctrine. Whether it is or isn't, there is no reason to contrive proof texts and evidences from scripture, where the verses themselves do not indicate it. If pre-tribism is true, and the Lord wants us to understand that, then there is no need to misuse scripture to do it, it will be there in the text, without twisting, without taking it out of contexts, and without importing ideas and assumptions to the text.

 

I  disagree. The pretrib rapture is the TRUTH of scripture. it sounds nice because it IS nice: God did not set an appointment with His wrath, and He has provided a way of escape! I suggest all people that believe in a post trib rapture begin PRAYING that they will be found worthy to escape all these things! After all, that is SCRIPTURE.

Very good post, Omegaman!

 

Lamad in Green!

[George]

George, just read it in context! JEsus leaves the wedding supper to get on the white horse and come to earth.

It doesn't say that Jesus "leaves" the marriage feast.  It says the Bride is now READY.

 

May I ask what you think this particular passage is referrring to?

 

Isaiah 25:6-9 On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.  And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the LORD has spoken. It will be said on that day, "Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

 

God bless,

 

George

 

[bornagain2011]

If it is a post trib rapture, who are the people having children during the 1,000 year reign? If the rapture happens AT the 2nd coming and all believers are given glorified bodies while the unbelievers are cast into hell, who does that leave left with normal bodies? The Jews? Wouldn't they be believers by that time and so also given glorified bodies? The believers with glorified bodies?...but wont we be like the angels who aren't married? No marriage=no more babies. If the Post trib is true, I would like to know who this 3rd group of people is that have normal reproducing bodies!

[Montana Marv]

 

George, just read it in context! JEsus leaves the wedding supper to get on the white horse and come to earth.

It doesn't say that Jesus "leaves" the marriage feast.  It says the Bride is now READY.

 

May I ask what you think this particular passage is referrring to?

 

Isaiah 25:6-9 On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.  And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the LORD has spoken. It will be said on that day, "Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

 

God bless,

 

George

 

 

 

George

 

That particular passage is referring to a post-mill time.  A parallel passage is Rev 21:3b,4 - Now the dwelling (New Jerusalem) of God is with men, and he will live with them.  They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.  He will wipe every tear from their eyes.  There will be no more death, or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed.

 

So yes there will be feasting even post mill.  For death is not removed until Satan is thrown into the Lake of Fire forever and forever.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[iamlamad]

 

George, just read it in context! JEsus leaves the wedding supper to get on the white horse and come to earth.

It doesn't say that Jesus "leaves" the marriage feast.  It says the Bride is now READY.

 

May I ask what you think this particular passage is referrring to?

 

Isaiah 25:6-9 On this mountain the LORD of hosts will make for all peoples a feast of rich food, a feast of well-aged wine, of rich food full of marrow, of aged wine well refined.  And he will swallow up on this mountain the covering that is cast over all peoples, the veil that is spread over all nations. He will swallow up death forever; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from all faces, and the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for the LORD has spoken. It will be said on that day, "Behold, this is our God; we have waited for him, that he might save us. This is the LORD; we have waited for him; let us be glad and rejoice in his salvation."

 

God bless,

 

George

 

 

What does Revelation SAY?

 

^{Rev. 19:4} And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia.

 

WHERE is this? The four and twenty elders were seen around the throne in heaven in chapter 4. So this seen is STILL IN HEAVEN.

 

⁵ And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great.

⁶ And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for the Lord God omnipotent reigneth.

⁷ Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.

 

There has been NO CHANGE in location, so this scene also is IN HEAVEN. (Unless you wish to add meaning to these verses.)

 

Scene STILL IN HEAVEN AFTER the supper:

 

¹¹ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse;.....

 

What can we believe from this? Jesus is about to LEAVE heaven.

 

I have no idea of the meaning of your verse in Isaiah. Verses in the New Testament are much clearly in meaning than in the Old, in general. It is always wiser to form doctrine from New testament verses, and fill in missing pieces from the Old.

 

Lamad

[Micheal Westin]

This Rapture topic is based on Two major sets of Scriptures.

 

The first being:

 

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  to add further; v 37, 38 -  as in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered into the Ark.

 

The Second being:

 

John 1:1, 2, 14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,  He was in the beginning with God...  And the Word was made flesh and made his dwelling among us.  Being the Word is Jesus.

 

Here we see that all the Spoken Word and all the Written Word (Bible) is from Jesus the Son.  Everything contained in the Scriptures is of Jesus the Son.  He knows everything which is in the Word (Bible), because He is the Word.

 

Look at the words before Noah entered the Ark.  People eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.  They were having a good ole happy time.  Just as people are acting today.  A time of merriment.

 

In Contrast; those during the  70th Week are going through terrible times.  Earthquakes, severe famines, all the grasses burning up, hiding in the rocks, all living creatures in the sea dying, the sun searing people.  Calamity, people being distraught.  People living in fear, was is going to come up next. 

 

This is a totally different environment than what was going on before the flood.  Having a big party.

 

Now back to the main point;  Scripture does not give a hint of when the Rapture will occur, for only God the Father knows, Not God the Son (Word).  If you say it is in Scripture, you make God a liar, for He is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  How many god the fathers do we have out here knowing the timing of the Rapture.

 

This is a difficult subject, everyone has their opinion, they try to base it on Scripture, which is of Jesus.  That is where most fail.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

In your comparison you equate the people outside the ark as Christians, when in fact you should of compared Christians with Noah and his sons who had built the ark, those outside the ark were eating and drinking had no idea what was about to happen, while Noah and his family knew very well what was about to occur

day and hour unknown? yes will the second coming be a surprise for those who believe, according to Paul, no

will it be like a thief in the night? yes! but again according to Paul, the surprised are  those who live in darkness

As the angels stated Christ second coming will be in like manner, considering the whole earth will see the sign of the Son of Man and mourn it will be a huge event

Edited August 23, 2013 by Micheal Westin

[Montana Marv]

 

This Rapture topic is based on Two major sets of Scriptures.

 

The first being:

 

Matt 24:36 - No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.  to add further; v 37, 38 -  as in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.  For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered into the Ark.

 

The Second being:

 

John 1:1, 2, 14 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God,  He was in the beginning with God...  And the Word was made flesh and made his dwelling among us.  Being the Word is Jesus.

 

Here we see that all the Spoken Word and all the Written Word (Bible) is from Jesus the Son.  Everything contained in the Scriptures is of Jesus the Son.  He knows everything which is in the Word (Bible), because He is the Word.

 

Look at the words before Noah entered the Ark.  People eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage.  They were having a good ole happy time.  Just as people are acting today.  A time of merriment.

 

In Contrast; those during the  70th Week are going through terrible times.  Earthquakes, severe famines, all the grasses burning up, hiding in the rocks, all living creatures in the sea dying, the sun searing people.  Calamity, people being distraught.  People living in fear, was is going to come up next. 

 

This is a totally different environment than what was going on before the flood.  Having a big party.

 

Now back to the main point;  Scripture does not give a hint of when the Rapture will occur, for only God the Father knows, Not God the Son (Word).  If you say it is in Scripture, you make God a liar, for He is the only one who knows the time of the Rapture.  How many god the fathers do we have out here knowing the timing of the Rapture.

 

This is a difficult subject, everyone has their opinion, they try to base it on Scripture, which is of Jesus.  That is where most fail.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

In your comparison you equate the people outside the ark as Christians, when in fact you should of compared Christians with Noah and his sons who had built the ark, those outside the ark were eating and drinking had no idea what was about to happen, while Noah and his family knew very well what was about to occur

day and hour unknown? yes will the second coming be a surprise for those who believe, according to Paul, no

will it be like a thief in the night? yes! but again according to Paul, the surprised are  those who live in darkness

As the angels stated Christ second coming will be in like manner, considering the whole earth will see the sign of the Son of Man and mourn it will be a huge event

 

 

Micheal

 

My comparison is that of "eating, drinking and marrying and giving in marriage".  This was the environment of those who were living on earth when Noah and his family entered the Ark,  Then the door was shut.  This same environment exists here on earth now.  The same as when Noah entered the Ark.

 

Can one say that this environment exists during the times of the 2nd to 6th Seals; or the 1st to 6th Trumpets; or the 1st to 7th Bowls.  A lot of very, very hard times going on during these events.  Death and hardship is everywhere.  Not much joy going around.  Not much eating, drinking and marrying and giving in marriage at this time.

 

So be ready now, not one to seven years from now.  The same environment exists now as before Noah entering the Ark.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv