Mystery Babylon - could it be Mecca / Dubai?

[BlindSeeker]

 

 

WW - What do you want me to expand on? The AC isn't going to be Islamic.

Give reasons why, using scripture. That's like me saying that the AC is not going to be Lithuanian and leaving it at that! There are a lot of parallels with Islam and the nature of the Beast.

 

The parallels only exist because when the muhammeden (I think followers of muhammed were called muhammeden before they were called islamists/muslims, etc.) wrote the koran they interlaced verses from the Bible/Torah within their own writings.  I am sure, some muhammeden read the Revelation of John and decided to give their "10th immam" the traits of the person least like Jesus Christ as possible.  Which so happens to be the AC.  They did this to sell islam as a legitimate religion.  It's the classic mix a little truth in with fiction and you can convince people it is true.

 

Islam came about over 400 years after Christ died.  So, people in that part of the world knew of Jesus, they were also mostly illiterate, but they had just enough knowledge of Christianity that they could be easily manipulated into believing a lie.  Muhammed came along, and for whatever reason, like many people and false prophets do still today, used religion to gain power and wealth.  Once he got enough followers they began being deifying him as the prophet of prophets. 

 

In my mind, he is no more a prophet than david koresh, or Joseph Smith, Jim Jones, etc. were.  He was just in a time where people were superstitious and ignorant enough to believe he was anything special.  Also, convert or die was a very convicing proposition for most people.

 

To see the koran as a prophetic book, means to make it equivalent to the bible and no Christian should ever make that mistake.  We can expect the world to be gullible enough to believe in the prophecies of the koran.  But Christians should know better.

 

Well said.

[rjp34652]

Babylon is Rome, Italy, which sits on 7 hills, which will be the home base for both the so-called "Christian" antichrist and the so-called "Christian" false prophet.

The AC will NOT be Islamic and neither will the false prophet.

Neither Mecca, Dubai, nor any other Muslim city play a significant role in future prophecy.

***

Here we go with the Catholic bashers once again.    Just once I wish one of these people would do a little more scholarship and a little less brain dead pope hating.

 

The Bible clearly indicates that the anti-Christ and his kingdom will arise out of the Levant, not Italy.

 

Before the city of Rome fell to the Goths in the fifth century, the empire was divided east and west.  The capital of the western empire was Rome and the capital of the eastern empire was Byzantium.   Later the name of the city was changed to Constantinople to reflect the rule of Emperor Constantine.  Despite the fall of Rome in the west, the Roman influence continued in the world until well into the fifteenth century.  

 

In the year 1453, Constantinople fell to the Ottomans - ancestors of the Seljuk Turks who invaded the area centuries before.  Historians commemorate this date as the official end of the European middle ages.   The Ottoman Empire continued until its dissolution following WWI and in 1923 the modern state of Turkey was established.  In 1930 the name of Constantinople was officially changed to Istanbul as it is to this day.   My point is that the Roman Empire continued as a political, economic and military power until well into the fifteenth century.   To simply conclude that Rome is the only possible keystone for the Biblical alignment of international powers in the last days is myopic to say the least.

 

In point of fact, the Bible indicates clearly which city and nation will host satan's power.   Rev. 2:12-13 states that Pergamun is the throne of satan.   If you guessed that Pergamun is in the modern state of Turkey you guessed correctly.   Don't believe me?  Look it up, pilgrim.

 

Islamic end times eschatology indicates that a messiah figure will arise in the end times.  This person will be the twelfth caliph (out of Turkey) and will be named Mohammad al Mahdi.   Muslim predictions are chillingly similar to Christian predictions for the same era.

 

1.

Bible - antiChrist will be a great religious, military and political leader in the last days.

Islam - Mahdi will be a great religious, military and political leader in the last days.

 

2.

Bible - A false prophet will be a secondary figure who will support antiChrist.

Islam - The Muslim Jesus (Isa) will be a prophet who will support Mahdi.

 

3.

Bible - The antiChrist and the prophet will lead a great army to dominate the world.

Islam - Mahdi & Isa (Muslim Jesus) will deploy a great army to win the world for Allah.

 

4.

Bible - False prophet is described as a dragon in lamb's clothing.

Islam - Isa is described as the lamb of God, but will murder anyone who will not submit to Islam.

 

5.

Bible - AntiChrist and his prophet will establish a new world order.

Islam - Madhi and Isa will establish a new world order.

 

6.

Bible - AntiChrist and his prophet will attack to conquer Jerusalem.

Islam - Mahdi and Isa will reconquer Jerusalem for Allah.

 

7.

Bible - AntiChrist will set himself up in the Jewish temple as the seat of authority.

Islam - Mahdi will establish the Islamic caliphate from Jerusalem.

 

8.

Bible - AntiChrist and false prophet will use beheading as the main method of execution.

Islam - Mahdi and Isa will use beheading as the penalty for not becoming Muslim.

 

9.

Bible - The AntiChrist will make a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years.

Islam - The Mahdi will make a treaty through a Levite Jew for 7 years.

 

10.

Bible - The Jewish Jesus will return to defend the Jews in Israel.

Islam - The Dajjal, the Islamic antiChrist (actually Jesus of Nazareth), will gain a great Jewish following and claim to be Jesus Christ.

He will fight against the Mahdi and Isa.

 

11.

Bible - The spirit of antiChrist will specifically deny the doctrines of the Trinity, the incarnation, and the substitutionary death of Jesus upon the cross.

Islam - Denies the trinity.  Denies the incarnation.  Denies the substitutionary death of Jesus upon the cross.

 

I have ten more items to add to the list if anyone is interested.   For more information (and a few sleepless nights) I recommend the book THE ISLAMIC ANTICHRIST by Joel Richardson.

 

No dear reader, the antiChrist will not be a Roman pope.  He will be a Muslim.   

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[other one]

 

 

In point of fact, the Bible indicates clearly which city and nation will host satan's power.   Rev. 2:12-13 states that Pergamun is the throne of satan.   If you guessed that Pergamun is in the modern state of Turkey you guessed correctly.   Don't believe me?  Look it up, pilgrim.

 

 

the throne of Satan has moved to Germany thanks to Hitler who Satan seemed to be his controlling factor.

[OakWood]

 

 

 

In point of fact, the Bible indicates clearly which city and nation will host satan's power.   Rev. 2:12-13 states that Pergamun is the throne of satan.   If you guessed that Pergamun is in the modern state of Turkey you guessed correctly.   Don't believe me?  Look it up, pilgrim.

 

 

the throne of Satan has moved to Germany thanks to Hitler who Satan seemed to be his controlling factor.

 

 

'Has moved' or 'had moved'?  Hitler is dead and buried now.

Nothing in the Bible suggests that the throne of Satan moves to Germany. Hitler may have been an anti-Christ, but there have been many anti-Christs. Surely you're not suggesting that the throne of Satan keeps moving around every time there is an anti-Christ, and even if it does, then it won't be in Germany now because the Nazi regime is gone.

[OakWood]

 

Babylon is Rome, Italy, which sits on 7 hills, which will be the home base for both the so-called "Christian" antichrist and the so-called "Christian" false prophet.

The AC will NOT be Islamic and neither will the false prophet.

Neither Mecca, Dubai, nor any other Muslim city play a significant role in future prophecy.

***

Here we go with the Catholic bashers once again.    Just once I wish one of these people would do a little more scholarship and a little less brain dead pope hating.

 

The Bible clearly indicates that the anti-Christ and his kingdom will arise out of the Levant, not Italy.

 

Before the city of Rome fell to the Goths in the fifth century, the empire was divided east and west.  The capital of the western empire was Rome and the capital of the eastern empire was Byzantium.   Later the name of the city was changed to Constantinople to reflect the rule of Emperor Constantine.  Despite the fall of Rome in the west, the Roman influence continued in the world until well into the fifteenth century.  

 

In the year 1453, Constantinople fell to the Ottomans - ancestors of the Seljuk Turks who invaded the area centuries before.  Historians commemorate this date as the official end of the European middle ages.   The Ottoman Empire continued until its dissolution following WWI and in 1923 the modern state of Turkey was established.  In 1930 the name of Constantinople was officially changed to Istanbul as it is to this day.   My point is that the Roman Empire continued as a political, economic and military power until well into the fifteenth century.   To simply conclude that Rome is the only possible keystone for the Biblical alignment of international powers in the last days is myopic to say the least.

 

In point of fact, the Bible indicates clearly which city and nation will host satan's power.   Rev. 2:12-13 states that Pergamun is the throne of satan.   If you guessed that Pergamun is in the modern state of Turkey you guessed correctly.   Don't believe me?  Look it up, pilgrim.

 

Islamic end times eschatology indicates that a messiah figure will arise in the end times.  This person will be the twelfth caliph (out of Turkey) and will be named Mohammad al Mahdi.   Muslim predictions are chillingly similar to Christian predictions for the same era.

 

1.

Bible - antiChrist will be a great religious, military and political leader in the last days.

Islam - Mahdi will be a great religious, military and political leader in the last days.

 

2.

Bible - A false prophet will be a secondary figure who will support antiChrist.

Islam - The Muslim Jesus (Isa) will be a prophet who will support Mahdi.

 

3.

Bible - The antiChrist and the prophet will lead a great army to dominate the world.

Islam - Mahdi & Isa (Muslim Jesus) will deploy a great army to win the world for Allah.

 

4.

Bible - False prophet is described as a dragon in lamb's clothing.

Islam - Isa is described as the lamb of God, but will murder anyone who will not submit to Islam.

 

5.

Bible - AntiChrist and his prophet will establish a new world order.

Islam - Madhi and Isa will establish a new world order.

 

6.

Bible - AntiChrist and his prophet will attack to conquer Jerusalem.

Islam - Mahdi and Isa will reconquer Jerusalem for Allah.

 

7.

Bible - AntiChrist will set himself up in the Jewish temple as the seat of authority.

Islam - Mahdi will establish the Islamic caliphate from Jerusalem.

 

8.

Bible - AntiChrist and false prophet will use beheading as the main method of execution.

Islam - Mahdi and Isa will use beheading as the penalty for not becoming Muslim.

 

9.

Bible - The AntiChrist will make a peace treaty with Israel for 7 years.

Islam - The Mahdi will make a treaty through a Levite Jew for 7 years.

 

10.

Bible - The Jewish Jesus will return to defend the Jews in Israel.

Islam - The Dajjal, the Islamic antiChrist (actually Jesus of Nazareth), will gain a great Jewish following and claim to be Jesus Christ.

He will fight against the Mahdi and Isa.

 

11.

Bible - The spirit of antiChrist will specifically deny the doctrines of the Trinity, the incarnation, and the substitutionary death of Jesus upon the cross.

Islam - Denies the trinity.  Denies the incarnation.  Denies the substitutionary death of Jesus upon the cross.

 

I have ten more items to add to the list if anyone is interested.   For more information (and a few sleepless nights) I recommend the book THE ISLAMIC ANTICHRIST by Joel Richardson.

 

No dear reader, the antiChrist will not be a Roman pope.  He will be a Muslim.   

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

 

 

It's not just Joel Richardson who believes this, there are others too.  Walid Shoebat also agrees that the anti-Christ will be a Muslim. Check his work out.

[nikki1]

Montana Marv

I have seen a lot of empires not mentioned by some of you.   Ottoman, Spanish, Portugese, German, yet you leave these out.

 

 

Nikki

Rome is #6 and was conquered by what is today known as the Ottoman Turks and predominately muslim

 

I guess you missed what I wrote in my post #56 above.

[other one]

 

 

 

 

In point of fact, the Bible indicates clearly which city and nation will host satan's power.   Rev. 2:12-13 states that Pergamun is the throne of satan.   If you guessed that Pergamun is in the modern state of Turkey you guessed correctly.   Don't believe me?  Look it up, pilgrim.

 

 

the throne of Satan has moved to Germany thanks to Hitler who Satan seemed to be his controlling factor.

 

 

'Has moved' or 'had moved'?  Hitler is dead and buried now.

Nothing in the Bible suggests that the throne of Satan moves to Germany. Hitler may have been an anti-Christ, but there have been many anti-Christs. Surely you're not suggesting that the throne of Satan keeps moving around every time there is an anti-Christ, and even if it does, then it won't be in Germany now because the Nazi regime is gone.

 

That part of the bible is being written to a group of people and really isn't speaking of the antichrist.   However if you are looking for that throne of Satan today, ti resides in Berlin, Germany.  Pergamon at the writing of Revelation and that message to the church there did have the throne.  I would ask if you really beleive the message to the church in Rev, chapter 2 is intended for a church there today.   There is nothing left there but ruins, I am told.

[rjp34652]

 

 

 

 

 

In point of fact, the Bible indicates clearly which city and nation will host satan's power.   Rev. 2:12-13 states that Pergamun is the throne of satan.   If you guessed that Pergamun is in the modern state of Turkey you guessed correctly.   Don't believe me?  Look it up, pilgrim.

 

 

the throne of Satan has moved to Germany thanks to Hitler who Satan seemed to be his controlling factor.

 

 

'Has moved' or 'had moved'?  Hitler is dead and buried now.

Nothing in the Bible suggests that the throne of Satan moves to Germany. Hitler may have been an anti-Christ, but there have been many anti-Christs. Surely you're not suggesting that the throne of Satan keeps moving around every time there is an anti-Christ, and even if it does, then it won't be in Germany now because the Nazi regime is gone.

 

That part of the bible is being written to a group of people and really isn't speaking of the antichrist.   However if you are looking for that throne of Satan today, ti resides in Berlin, Germany.  Pergamon at the writing of Revelation and that message to the church there did have the throne.  I would ask if you really beleive the message to the church in Rev, chapter 2 is intended for a church there today.   There is nothing left there but ruins, I am told.

 

 

Only partly correct.

 

The facade of the temple was built in Berlin during Hitler's design period.  Additionally the altar of Zeus was moved to the same location from Turkey.  Hitler was a frustrated architect and had grandiose designs for rebuilding the capital.  Unfortunately one cannot make war and building projects at the same time and Adolph ended up causing the destruction of the city instead of its remodeling.  Both the facade and the altar survived the bombing and the Russian occupation when almost everything else in the town was blown to smithereens.  Curious.

 

My point in quoting the Revelations passage, as well as stating the history lesson was to refocus attention away from 19th & 20th century interpretations of the  European domination of end times prophecy.  Neither Europe nor America nor the boot of Italy will be creating international policy in those days.  At present Europe is a secular continent with little or no interest expressed in religious terms outside of the Vatican.   The EU is floundering in financial difficulty and political instability.  The British Conservative Party wants to secede from the EU, Scotland wants to secede from UK and Germany is nervous about being left holding the bag.  It's not exactly a status quo situation.  Do not look there for religious guidance in the future.

 

America is rapidly following suite and although churches in the United States still seem to be holding their own against the tide of secularism the political edge they've enjoyed for decades is eroding much more quickly than they realize.  The USA is becoming a nation increasingly opposed to Christian influence if not genuinely hostile toward it.  Although loudly proclaimed to be out of financial danger, the leadership of the US knows America is far from resting on solid financial ground.  There are also disturbing indications that the vaunted military may not be as healthy and combat ready as it once was.  Do not look for religious guidance from America in the future.

 

That leaves the Levant as the center of religious, financial, political and military turmoil for years to come.   This comes as no surprise I'm sure, but to one who wishes to follow international developments it is wise to consider Turkey.  For most of history since Jesus of Nazareth walked the earth, the Turks have had a significant impact on events and policy there.   Today Turkey is growing in what some believe to be Islamic radicalism.  Still some way from that point, there is a definite trend to be observed.   Erdogan intends to lead Turkey toward the twelfth caliphate and only his inner circle can tell what role he'd like to play in it.  Turkey wants to lead and the fact that it is economically viable and politically stable seems to be encouraging them to do what they want - seize the brass ring of Islamic leadership.   The question remains to be asked, what happens if they get what they want?

 

As the prophet said, we shall see.

 

But it is important for the rest of us to know where to look.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Montana Marv]

The war of Ezk 38 and 38 will take the Muslim influence out of the picture.

 

Gog and Magog of the far North (some identify this as Russia, some say Turkey).  Meshech and Tubal (Assyria or Iraq, Asia Minor, Turkey).  Persia (Iran).  Cush (upper Nile region).  Put (possibly Libya).  This looks like much of the Islamic crescent around Israel.  All of these are destroyed.  So Islam is destroyed with them.

 

Israel will have been restored before this confederacy attacks them.  Which it has.

 

So that leaves the European confederacy as the controllers of the world, headed by the ten toes of the revived Roman Empire. (Dan 2:40-43) 

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[OakWood]

The war of Ezk 38 and 38 will take the Muslim influence out of the picture.

 

Gog and Magog of the far North (some identify this as Russia, some say Turkey).  Meshech and Tubal (Assyria or Iraq, Asia Minor, Turkey).  Persia (Iran).  Cush (upper Nile region).  Put (possibly Libya).  This looks like much of the Islamic crescent around Israel.  All of these are destroyed.  So Islam is destroyed with them.

 

Israel will have been restored before this confederacy attacks them.  Which it has.

 

So that leaves the European confederacy as the controllers of the world, headed by the ten toes of the revived Roman Empire. (Dan 2:40-43) 

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

That's an interesting point actually. Don't forget that Satan, devious though he is, always leaves his fingerprint. The religion of the beast may resemble Islam but doesn't necessarily have to be Islam. It will be a new religion, but the Devil won't be able to resist some of his trademarks such as beheading.