Immodesty and Lust - From a Man's Perspective

[Sevenseas]

I find myself asking if harlots are still human and if they are, is there hope?

 

What about Rahab?

 

Rahab was one of those unexpected characters in the Bible. Even though she made her living as a prostitute, she was selected for high honor in the Faith Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11.

 

Stop lumping everyone together is the point I am trying to make.  Harlots, bimbos, and even homosexuals are still human beings that Christ died for.

 

Doesn't mean I want to be one or agree with their sin....but without Jesus who knows where I would be?

 

Doesn't that sink in?  Hello?

 

Ok sorry...end of rant

[other one]

I find myself asking if harlots are still human and if they are, is there hope?

 

What about Rahab?

 

Rahab was one of those unexpected characters in the Bible. Even though she made her living as a prostitute, she was selected for high honor in the Faith Hall of Fame in Hebrews 11.

 

Stop lumping everyone together is the point I am trying to make.  Harlots, bimbos, and even homosexuals are still human beings that Christ died for.

 

Doesn't mean I want to be one or agree with their sin....but without Jesus who knows where I would be?

 

Doesn't that sink in?  Hello?

 

Ok sorry...end of rant

you would be hell bound....   along with the rest of us.

[oldzimm]

 

 

 

 

 

Now there is a word and a line that are pet peeves of mind. The word fashionable, the line "..acceptable in society..", these are things of worldly matters, and at times could be created by satan. If the fashion of the time were to be naked in public and it were acceptable by society, would that make it okay? (I don't think so)

 

 

 

OneWithGod, congratulations on breaking those chains.

 

 

Oldzimm

 

It used to not be acceptable in society for women to wear pants or to wear skirts that didn't  fall to their feet. Do we really want to say that we ought to require that? There's clearly a cultural element to all this, particularly when we want to understand the intentions of the woman in question. If she is dressing appropriately to the standards of her society why impute to her ill intent?

 

Again you speak of the subject in a worldly view, and you seem to suggest that to be naked in public is okay, as long as it is the fashion and society accepts it. The fact is we can talk about this subject being right or wrong all we want, but what we think doesn't really matter, it is what God thinks that matters and he clearly tells us in the word not to cause a brother (or sister) to stumble. If we cause a brother to stumble, two have sinned, the one who stumbled and the one who caused the brother to stumble.

 

No, that isn't what I said. What I said is that if you want to judge a woman for what she is wearing it makes no sense to *not* take into account the cultural standard since what is modest in one place and time is completely different in another. That is just a fact. In 1800 US it would be completely inappropriate for a woman to go around in an outfit that is considered perfectly fine to us now, say, capris and a t shirt. Similarly, if a woman went to Saudi Arabia now wearing that she would be considered extremely immodest. Not taking into account the place and time you are at will not allow you to properly judge the intentions of the person wearing whatever it is they are are.

 

The other thing that people should take into account is the feelings of the person in question, who is told that their clothing is 'inappropriate'. The way that people are talking about women in this thread disturb me.

 

It  doesn't matter where you live.Half dressed with half of your body showing is not excepted by God.It is not modest.Whether you live in the United States or Timbuktu.Although I might add the exception might be to natives who have never seen civilization.

 

Is a woman wearing capris and t-shirts being modest, yes or no?

 

I guess that would depend where she is at, but off hand I would say no. Wear a T-shirt that would have Sexual quotes or any other quote that would promote sin and I would say yes.

 

Why have you not answered my questions, like this one, should a women wear a bikini to Church?

 

Oldzimm

[oldzimm]

 

 

The verses from Matthew deal with the one lusting, not about clothes being worn.

One who struggles with lust can find any clothing lust bringing

 

one of the most alluring pictures I've ever seen was of my wife wearing a silk dress very similar to this one only  yellow.

 

 

Otherone's post makes a good point by just the picture. There is a difference between lust and finding somebody attractive. Correct me if I'm wrong Otherone, but when you seen your wife in such a dress did you not find her attractive? Trying to dress (appropriately) in a way that can still attract the opposite sex is not necessary a sin. God designed us this way, everyone one of us who is married were attracted to our spouse by looks, same interest,etc. For what ever reason, I'm sure physical attraction came in somewhere. I'm not afraid to admit when I first met my wife, her beautiful eyes caught my attention, and I was caught hook, line and sinker. I was one of those guy who wasn't going to get married until I was thirty, I guess God had different plans for me. LOL (I was married at nineteen)

 

So what is the definition of attractive? According to the dictionary it is-

1.      providing pleasure or delight, especially in appearance or manner; pleasing; charming; alluring: an attractive personality.

2.

arousing interest or engaging one's thought, consideration, etc.:an attractive idea; an attractive price.

3.

having the quality of attracting.

 

So what is the definition of lust? According to the dictionary it is-

 Lust is an emotion or feeling of intense desire in the body. The lust can take any form such as the lust for knowledge, the lust for sex or the lust for power. It can take such mundane forms as the lust for food as distinct from the need for food. Lust is a powerful psychological force producing intense wanting for an object, or circumstance fulfilling the emotion.

 

So I guess being attracted to somebody of the opposite sex means there is a possibility of a start in a relationship that will last a lifetime. (no sin there)

 

It also sounds like lust is strong desire in the heart, maybe an animal instinct where there is no love. (sounds like it could be sinful)

 

said enough

Oldzimm

[enoob57]

 

 

From John MacArthur:

The Appearance Of Women

How does a woman discern the sometimes fine line between proper dress and dressing to be the center of attention? The answer starts in the intent of the heart. A woman should examine her motives and goals for the way she dresses. Is her intent to show the grace and beauty of womanhood? Is it to show her love and devotion to her husband and his goodness to her? Is it to reveal a humble heart devoted to worshiping God? Or is it to call attention to herself, and flaunt her wealth and beauty? Or worse, to attempt to allure men sexually? A woman who focuses on worshiping God will consider carefully how she is dressed, because her heart will dictate her wardrobe and appearance.

(from The MacArthur New Testament Commentary, Copyright © Moody Press and John MacArthur, Jr., 1983-2007.)

The dress code of God:

1 Tim 2:9-10

9 in like manner also, that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with propriety

and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, 10 but, which is

proper for women professing godliness, with good works.

NKJV

1 Peter 3:1-6

 2 when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3 Do not let your adornment

be merely outward — arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel —  4 rather

let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit,

which is very precious in the sight of God. 5 For in this manner, in former times, the holy women

who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6 as

Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not

afraid with any terror.

NKJV

Is it not unique that within them is this knowledge- and those looking for legislation from without

brings concern of what is lacking within!  Love, Steven

 

 

 

 

And the meaning of those words you bolded have had a 100 different meanings since they were written.

In fact what they mean to you has more to do with when and where you were born than anything from the Bible.

 

I have the absolute in my Lord... as He 'IS' Personal to me in His Leading by The Holy Spirit and His Word.

Therefore the world changes and cultures form from those changes BUT my Lord does not and in His

constant I rest in my heart  for I know Him and He me! There 'IS' One Lord, One baptism, One faith and

One Word and One Teacher but to arrive at these One areas you must be willing to die to self and this

world of compromise... Love, Steven

[alphaparticle]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now there is a word and a line that are pet peeves of mind. The word fashionable, the line "..acceptable in society..", these are things of worldly matters, and at times could be created by satan. If the fashion of the time were to be naked in public and it were acceptable by society, would that make it okay? (I don't think so)

 

 

 

OneWithGod, congratulations on breaking those chains.

 

 

Oldzimm

 

It used to not be acceptable in society for women to wear pants or to wear skirts that didn't  fall to their feet. Do we really want to say that we ought to require that? There's clearly a cultural element to all this, particularly when we want to understand the intentions of the woman in question. If she is dressing appropriately to the standards of her society why impute to her ill intent?

 

Again you speak of the subject in a worldly view, and you seem to suggest that to be naked in public is okay, as long as it is the fashion and society accepts it. The fact is we can talk about this subject being right or wrong all we want, but what we think doesn't really matter, it is what God thinks that matters and he clearly tells us in the word not to cause a brother (or sister) to stumble. If we cause a brother to stumble, two have sinned, the one who stumbled and the one who caused the brother to stumble.

 

No, that isn't what I said. What I said is that if you want to judge a woman for what she is wearing it makes no sense to *not* take into account the cultural standard since what is modest in one place and time is completely different in another. That is just a fact. In 1800 US it would be completely inappropriate for a woman to go around in an outfit that is considered perfectly fine to us now, say, capris and a t shirt. Similarly, if a woman went to Saudi Arabia now wearing that she would be considered extremely immodest. Not taking into account the place and time you are at will not allow you to properly judge the intentions of the person wearing whatever it is they are are.

 

The other thing that people should take into account is the feelings of the person in question, who is told that their clothing is 'inappropriate'. The way that people are talking about women in this thread disturb me.

 

It  doesn't matter where you live.Half dressed with half of your body showing is not excepted by God.It is not modest.Whether you live in the United States or Timbuktu.Although I might add the exception might be to natives who have never seen civilization.

 

Is a woman wearing capris and t-shirts being modest, yes or no?

 

I guess that would depend where she is at, but off hand I would say no. Wear a T-shirt that would have Sexual quotes or any other quote that would promote sin and I would say yes.

 

Why have you not answered my questions, like this one, should a women wear a bikini to Church?

 

Oldzimm

 

So a woman that tried to go a church, in 1800, wearing a t shirt and capris would be considered very immodestly dressed. It seems like we are somewhat agreeing on this point though, that there is a cultural element.

 

If a woman just walked into a church wearing a bikini I'd  find it very strange. People just don't go around wearing bikinis here, so I'd wonder what's up. In that case intentions and circumstance would matter a lot.

[oldzimm]

 

 

So a woman that tried to go a church, in 1800, wearing a t shirt and capris would be considered very immodestly dressed. It seems like we are somewhat agreeing on this point though, that there is a cultural element.

 

 

If a woman just walked into a church wearing a bikini I'd  find it very strange. People just don't go around wearing bikinis here, so I'd wonder what's up. In that case intentions and circumstance would matter a lot.

 

 

Figuring out what would be modest and immodest isn't really that difficult.  If she is wearing something too tight, or showing parts of her body that only a husband should see, then that is immodest.  And the same goes for the man.

 

Now why couldn't I come up with a great answer like that, instead of writing a book. lol

[alphaparticle]

 

 

So a woman that tried to go a church, in 1800, wearing a t shirt and capris would be considered very immodestly dressed. It seems like we are somewhat agreeing on this point though, that there is a cultural element.

 

 

If a woman just walked into a church wearing a bikini I'd  find it very strange. People just don't go around wearing bikinis here, so I'd wonder what's up. In that case intentions and circumstance would matter a lot.

 

 

Figuring out what would be modest and immodest isn't really that difficult.  If she is wearing something too tight, or showing parts of her body that only a husband should see, then that is immodest.  And the same goes for the man.

 

That's  not the same everywhere at all times. That's why i keep asking about the capris, an outfit understood by the vast majority of Americans now to be modest would have been scandalous 200 years ago. Cobalt 200 years ago might have said that's because she shouldn't be showing those parts, say, her shins, off to the public. That's why it seems like the intentions of the woman in question matter a lot, and her culture, before she's judged to be a 'harlot' or loose or seeking the attention of men, or whatever. It seems like perhaps we should seek to not assume the worst about people unless the facts really dictate that, and we don't know that right off the bat based on clothing alone.

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

I guess that would depend where she is at, but off hand I would say no. Wear a T-shirt that would have Sexual quotes or any other quote that would promote sin and I would say yes.

 

 

Why have you not answered my questions, like this one, should a women wear a bikini to Church?

 

Oldzimm

 

So a woman that tried to go a church, in 1800, wearing a t shirt and capris would be considered very immodestly dressed. It seems like we are somewhat agreeing on this point though, that there is a cultural element.

 

If a woman just walked into a church wearing a bikini I'd  find it very strange. People just don't go around wearing bikinis here, so I'd wonder what's up. In that case intentions and circumstance would matter a lot.

 

 

Here's some food for thought. In a church-plant I parcipated in (S. America - reaching socio-economically middle and upper class lost people) during the summer (October-Jan, remember it's the opposite of what happens in the U.S.) we had church services at the beach. Practically every female including the pastors wife and daughers wore a bikini for the services. Guess what? The services started at about noon after a brunch. The Gospel was preached (the sermon was Christ centered), there was praise to God in prayer, there was praise to God in song, and then there was fellowship. Then we would play soccer on the beach, enjoy the sun, play volleyball, talk, share life together. There were about 15 people that came to know the Lord during those times. Another 20 or so that became seekers and came to know the Lord later on that year. Imagine if we never would've followed God's Holy Spirit and had church in shorts (guys wore no shirts) and bikinis (girls).

God cares more about the heart (and the person) than about what one wears. God will do what He will do accomplish His purposes regardless of our speculations, feelings, or opinions. Culture definitely comes into play.

Reminds me of theregarding?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent> our attitude sometimes towards the lost. Also reminds me we need to have more towards fellow Beleivers in Christ.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

 

So a woman that tried to go a church, in 1800, wearing a t shirt and capris would be considered very immodestly dressed. It seems like we are somewhat agreeing on this point though, that there is a cultural element.

 

 

If a woman just walked into a church wearing a bikini I'd  find it very strange. People just don't go around wearing bikinis here, so I'd wonder what's up. In that case intentions and circumstance would matter a lot.

 

 

Figuring out what would be modest and immodest isn't really that difficult.  If she is wearing something too tight, or showing parts of her body that only a husband should see, then that is immodest.  And the same goes for the man.

 

That's  not the same everywhere at all times. That's why i keep asking about the capris, an outfit understood by the vast majority of Americans now to be modest would have been scandalous 200 years ago. Cobalt 200 years ago might have said that's because she shouldn't be showing those parts, say, her shins, off to the public. That's why it seems like the intentions of the woman in question matter a lot, and her culture, before she's judged to be a 'harlot' or loose or seeking the attention of men, or whatever. It seems like perhaps we should seek to not assume the worst about people unless the facts really dictate that, and we don't know that right off the bat based on clothing alone.

 

I would tend to agree with you. Particularly in red and bold black. See previous post for example.