An interesting thought about judaism.

[nebula]

You are welcome!

[Knowingtruth]

So I've been doing some thinking. Please, these are only thoughts that pertain to the origin of the word "Christianity". And hopefully you can accept this news openly.

 

So an interesting question was raised to me a long time ago. How come the Jews don't believe in Jesus if Jesus was a Jew? The answer is a little hard to explain to a non-believer.  I mean why are we "Christians" the ones who believe in a Jew calling ourselves this? As far as I know the word "christian" doesn't appear in the bible anywhere.

 

The answer is, orthodox Jews Believe the lie that Jesus was not the son of man and, therefore, had no authority over scripture. So why aren't we who believe in Christ called Jews? Or why did we allow a division like this to occur?

 

If you ask most people a simple question, "was Jesus a christian". They would most likely answer "yes" without much thought. They wouldn't realize that Christianity would Imply that we follow Jesus Christ. Jesus saying "I am a devout Christian" would mean that he devotes himself to himself. Only a sinner would devote themselves to themselves.

 

I think that a common miss conception is that when Jesus died he stopped being a Jew and became a christian. Or, he followed himself to heaven per say.

 

All I am asking is, why did we allow orthodox Jews to take the title of "We are the real Jews, God's chosen people" when we know that they believe a lie rather than the truth?

Have you heard of cynical saying that the last Christian died on the cross implying that many Christians now are just nominal or hypocrites!

[Ingrid]

 

So I've been doing some thinking. Please, these are only thoughts that pertain to the origin of the word "Christianity". And hopefully you can accept this news openly.

 

So an interesting question was raised to me a long time ago. How come the Jews don't believe in Jesus if Jesus was a Jew? The answer is a little hard to explain to a non-believer.  I mean why are we "Christians" the ones who believe in a Jew calling ourselves this? As far as I know the word "christian" doesn't appear in the bible anywhere.

 

The answer is, orthodox Jews Believe the lie that Jesus was not the son of man and, therefore, had no authority over scripture. So why aren't we who believe in Christ called Jews? Or why did we allow a division like this to occur?

 

If you ask most people a simple question, "was Jesus a christian". They would most likely answer "yes" without much thought. They wouldn't realize that Christianity would Imply that we follow Jesus Christ. Jesus saying "I am a devout Christian" would mean that he devotes himself to himself. Only a sinner would devote themselves to themselves.

 

I think that a common miss conception is that when Jesus died he stopped being a Jew and became a christian. Or, he followed himself to heaven per say.

 

All I am asking is, why did we allow orthodox Jews to take the title of "We are the real Jews, God's chosen people" when we know that they believe a lie rather than the truth?

 

You are confusing two different things.

 

Christianity is a religion. Jewish is an ethnic group.

 

A Jewish person can practice Christianity, or Buddhism, or be an atheist. Or they can practice Judaism. They still remain Jewish no matter which religion they practice.

 

A Christian is a person who practices Christianity as their belief system. A Christian (believer in Jesus), can be Black, White, Oriental, Native American, or they can be Jewish, Irish, Italian, Egyptian, Gypsy/Romani, etc etc etc. 

 

I guess it depends on who you ask.

 

Practicing Jews do not accept the term Messianic Jew.  One can not be a devout Christian and a devout Jew.

 

Judaism is a religion as is Christianity.  They are opposing beliefs.

 

Jews were not thought of as a race before the Nazis and their genocidal predecessors.  Making the term "Jewish" a race instead of a religion was a lie perpetrated by those who wanted to justify "genocide." 

Edited August 20, 2013 by Ingrid

[Qnts2]

 

 

So I've been doing some thinking. Please, these are only thoughts that pertain to the origin of the word "Christianity". And hopefully you can accept this news openly.

 

So an interesting question was raised to me a long time ago. How come the Jews don't believe in Jesus if Jesus was a Jew? The answer is a little hard to explain to a non-believer.  I mean why are we "Christians" the ones who believe in a Jew calling ourselves this? As far as I know the word "christian" doesn't appear in the bible anywhere.

 

The answer is, orthodox Jews Believe the lie that Jesus was not the son of man and, therefore, had no authority over scripture. So why aren't we who believe in Christ called Jews? Or why did we allow a division like this to occur?

 

If you ask most people a simple question, "was Jesus a christian". They would most likely answer "yes" without much thought. They wouldn't realize that Christianity would Imply that we follow Jesus Christ. Jesus saying "I am a devout Christian" would mean that he devotes himself to himself. Only a sinner would devote themselves to themselves.

 

I think that a common miss conception is that when Jesus died he stopped being a Jew and became a christian. Or, he followed himself to heaven per say.

 

All I am asking is, why did we allow orthodox Jews to take the title of "We are the real Jews, God's chosen people" when we know that they believe a lie rather than the truth?

 

You are confusing two different things.

 

Christianity is a religion. Jewish is an ethnic group.

 

A Jewish person can practice Christianity, or Buddhism, or be an atheist. Or they can practice Judaism. They still remain Jewish no matter which religion they practice.

 

A Christian is a person who practices Christianity as their belief system. A Christian (believer in Jesus), can be Black, White, Oriental, Native American, or they can be Jewish, Irish, Italian, Egyptian, Gypsy/Romani, etc etc etc. 

 

I guess it depends on who you ask.

 

Practicing Jews do not accept the term Messianic Jew.  One can not be a devout Christian and a devout Jew.

 

Judaism is a religion as is Christianity.  They are opposing beliefs.

 

Jews were not thought of as a race before the Nazis and their genocidal predecessors.  Making the term "Jewish" a race instead of a religion was a lie perpetrated by those who wanted to justify "genocide." 

 

 

The objection of 'practicing' Jews to Messianic Jew is that Messianic Jews believe in Jesus. The typical argument from Rabbinic Judaism is that all Jews are 'messianic' as the Messiah is a belief in Judaism so all Jews are messianic because they are waiting and looking for the Messiah. Of course the main objection is against believing in Jesus.

  

 

In Rabbinic Judaism, a Messianic Jew is considered to be a 'min', which is Hebrew for apostate, but most believe a Jewish believer in Jesus is still a Jew. The term Gentile means 'not a Jew'. From a Messianic Jewish perspective, Jesus is the Jewish Messiah prophesied in scripture, so a Jewish person can not become a Gentile/non-Jew when they believe in the Jewish Messiah. Rabbinic Judaism which rejects Jesus as the Messiah normally agrees that a Jewish person who believes in Jesus is still Jewish, but an apostate Jew. Others will try to deny a Jew who believes on Jesus is a Jew, but that is more of a political statement to keep Jewish believers separated and isolated from the Jewish community and to hang a threat of losing ties with family and Jewish community if a Jew should believe in Jesus.

 

You are correct that the Nazi's defined Jewish as a race, in order to assert that the Jewish race was so inferior genetically. Some Jewish people view Jewishness as a race, but I believe, as do others, that Jewish is an ethnic group. Jewish people have a common ancestry of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and are not a race (race is not in scripture and Jewish people come in all colors), but is a ethnic group as ethnic groups have common ancestry, lifestyles, and customs.

 

Judaism is a religion as is Christianity. Jews are by linage and while Judaism means the Jewish religion, thru history Jewish people do not all practice Judaism as a religion. Today, there is a segment of Jewish people who are interested in and/or practicing Buddhism. Jewish Buddhists are called Jewbu's. Still Jewish and practicing a different religion.    

[Taker]

I recently discovered that in Peter 1: 4, 12-19 the NIV and NLT and King James versions of the bible mention the word Christian.

Edited August 23, 2013 by Taker

[JohnD]

So I've been doing some thinking. Please, these are only thoughts that pertain to the origin of the word "Christianity". And hopefully you can accept this news openly.

 

So an interesting question was raised to me a long time ago. How come the Jews don't believe in Jesus if Jesus was a Jew? The answer is a little hard to explain to a non-believer.  I mean why are we "Christians" the ones who believe in a Jew calling ourselves this? As far as I know the word "christian" doesn't appear in the bible anywhere.

 

The answer is, orthodox Jews Believe the lie that Jesus was not the son of man and, therefore, had no authority over scripture. So why aren't we who believe in Christ called Jews? Or why did we allow a division like this to occur?

 

If you ask most people a simple question, "was Jesus a christian". They would most likely answer "yes" without much thought. They wouldn't realize that Christianity would Imply that we follow Jesus Christ. Jesus saying "I am a devout Christian" would mean that he devotes himself to himself. Only a sinner would devote themselves to themselves.

 

I think that a common miss conception is that when Jesus died he stopped being a Jew and became a christian. Or, he followed himself to heaven per say.

 

All I am asking is, why did we allow orthodox Jews to take the title of "We are the real Jews, God's chosen people" when we know that they believe a lie rather than the truth?

 

 

What you stumbled on in your thoughts is a fact that many aren't willing to accept because of their pride or prejudice.

 

There are two types of Israel (Jew)

1. the physical heirs of Abraham Isaac and Jacob (the chosen / elect of this world)
2. the spirit heirs of Abraham (the chosen / elect of heaven)

The reason Gentile born people (believers or unbelievers) reject this about faith in the Jewish Messiah, is because of antisemitism.  The Jewish born people (believers or unbelievers) reject this from sheer pride.

 

Romans 9:6 (NIV)

6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

 

Romans 2:28-29 (NIV)

28 A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.

29 No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise is not from men, but from God.

 

Philippians 3:3 (NIV)

3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—

 

Galatians 6:13-16 (NIV)

13 Not even those who are circumcised obey the law, yet they want you to be circumcised that they may boast about your flesh.

14 May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

15 Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything; what counts is a new creation.

16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule, even to the Israel of God.

 

Romans 11:26 (NIV)

26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.

 

John 3:16-18 (NIV)

16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

 

Romans 11:28 (NIV)

28 As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs,

[Qnts2]

 

There are two types of Israel (Jew)

1. the physical heirs of Abraham Isaac and Jacob (the chosen / elect of this world)
2. the spirit heirs of Abraham (the chosen / elect of heaven)

The reason Gentile born people (believers or unbelievers) reject this about faith in the Jewish Messiah, is because of antisemitism.  The Jewish born people (believers or unbelievers) reject this from sheer pride.

 

 

I reject that there are two types of Israel.

 

The physical heirs are descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob was renamed Israel, so the children of Israel are descendents of Jacob.

 

Christians are spiritual children of Abraham, but Abraham was not Israel/Jacob. So children of Abraham are not the same as children of Israel.

 

I do not think Gentiles reject being Israel because of anti-semitism. Actually, anti-semites often claim to be Israel, while also claiming Jewish people are not Israel, so it is very common for anti-semites to claim to be Israel. For example, British Israelism and Christian Identity claim to be Israel and are anti-semitic.  

 

I am also not being prideful by rejecting the claim that Gentiles are Jews. Gentile actually means 'not Jewish'. Gentiles believers have received a better covenant and better promises. Scripture calls believers in Jesus, children of God by adoption. So to me, it would be a bad mistake to claim to be Israel/Jewish, because that view fails to understand Israel, but also makes Gods promises less then they are. Jewish believers also receive a better covenant and better promises, become thru Jesus children of God by adoption. It is a better promise and blessing, then being a child of Israel/Jewish. And as children of God by adoption, that makes all believers a family.

[JohnD]

 

 

There are two types of Israel (Jew)

1. the physical heirs of Abraham Isaac and Jacob (the chosen / elect of this world)
2. the spirit heirs of Abraham (the chosen / elect of heaven)

The reason Gentile born people (believers or unbelievers) reject this about faith in the Jewish Messiah, is because of antisemitism.  The Jewish born people (believers or unbelievers) reject this from sheer pride.

 

 

I reject that there are two types of Israel.

 

The physical heirs are descendents of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob was renamed Israel, so the children of Israel are descendents of Jacob.

 

Christians are spiritual children of Abraham, but Abraham was not Israel/Jacob. So children of Abraham are not the same as children of Israel.

 

I do not think Gentiles reject being Israel because of anti-semitism. Actually, anti-semites often claim to be Israel, while also claiming Jewish people are not Israel, so it is very common for anti-semites to claim to be Israel. For example, British Israelism and Christian Identity claim to be Israel and are anti-semitic.  

 

I am also not being prideful by rejecting the claim that Gentiles are Jews. Gentile actually means 'not Jewish'. Gentiles believers have received a better covenant and better promises. Scripture calls believers in Jesus, children of God by adoption. So to me, it would be a bad mistake to claim to be Israel/Jewish, because that view fails to understand Israel, but also makes Gods promises less then they are. Jewish believers also receive a better covenant and better promises, become thru Jesus children of God by adoption. It is a better promise and blessing, then being a child of Israel/Jewish. And as children of God by adoption, that makes all believers a family.

 

 

For the basis of your rejection, read the last line of what I wrote that you quoted.

 

I quoted scripture.

 

You gave opinion.

 

And you misindentified what I showed the Bible teaches and the debunked British Israelism claim of Herbert W. Armstrong and ilk.

 

I said Spirit Jew Spirit Israel. Armstrong said physical Jew physical Israel (or the lost ten tribes or some such nonsense).

 

Thanks for proving my point. 

 

[JohnD]

Genesis 1:27 (KJV)
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

 

This is the sole basis of Jesus' commentary on the marriage of one man to one woman for one lifetime.

 

Matthew 19:8 (KJV)
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.

 

God did not create Adam and Eve and Cindy or Adam and Steve...

 

It was what it was.

 

Now read the Gospel in the Old Testament:

 

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

No mention of Gentiles.

 

No salvation for Gentiles?

 

Or will Gentiles who are saved be grafted into the Olive Tree (Romans 11:16-26)???

 

So all ISRAEL will be saved.

 

All Spirit Israel (Romans 2:28-29).

[Guest]

.... read the Gospel in the Old Testament:

 

Jeremiah 31:31-34 (KJV)

31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

>Insert By Joe<

 

Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

 

Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.

 

And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath. And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever. Jeremiah 31:35-40

 

No mention of Gentiles.

 

No salvation for Gentiles?

 

Or will Gentiles who are saved be grafted into the Olive Tree

 

>Insert By Joe<

 

Romans 11:16-26 )KJV)

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

 

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

 

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

So all ISRAEL will be saved.

 

 

Hallelujah~!

 

~

 

Every

And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. Isaiah 11:10

 

Time I

I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles Isaiah 42:6

 

Open The

And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth. Isaiah 49:6

 

Book Of Yeshua

And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Isaiah 60:3

 

I Thank My LORD Jesus

O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. Jeremiah 16:19

 

For His Beloved Brothers And Sisters

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 1:11