Speaking in tongues 2

[Knowingtruth]

 

 

Can you supply the scripture you are referring to?

Everything cannot be provided through Scripture that is limited.(John 21:25) Many were lost and destroyed before Canon was decided. For that main reason  Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to discern the truth even though Scripture existed at that time.

 

 

Finally I found an answer here in red. I guess I missed this with all the posts on this thread. For clarifiction John 21:25 in context is in regards to what other things JESUS did. It has nothing to do with missing instructions on uknown languages. It has nothing to do with missing instructions in Scripture either in purple. As to the attack on the Bible in purple that it is incomplete are you saying that God isn't powerful enough to protect Scripture - The Bible?

 

John 21:25

²⁵ And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

 

 

There is nothing Jesus could give instruction on something that He did not practice. We would be in trouble if we followed Paul instead of Jesus Christ. That is the crux of the problem. Earlier people were trying to follow Paul, Apollos, Peter, John, etc.

 

 

 

 

There is no way to prove through the thousands of Biblical texts that exist still today that Scripture has ever existed on this subject - that languages (Speaking in tongues - known or unknwon) have ceased. Perhaps again you're lacking faith in God's power to protect His Word - Scripture? Perhaps again you are taking personal conviction and equating it with Biblical truth?

 

The canonised Bible ends with Revelation. It does not mean nothing has affected in our growing knowledge in the Savior. How come the original texts have disappeared?

 

 

 

Something to ponder, pray, and consider brother.

 

Sure, that is why I am participating here. I participate in other Forums too for this purpose.

 

 

 

PS - I think in your discussions here you're actually hurting your cause rather than persuading others.

 

I do not know. It is my responsibility to share--result left to God!

 

Be blessed.

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

 

After reviewing this thread it seems the disucssion is going round and round in circles KT. You are simply repeating yourself and giving opinion as Biblical truth. Let me illustrate...

 

 

It is happening because those who participate in this thread, I think, will not look through my replies pertaining to the same question to others and continue to ask them. Therefore, I have no option but to repeat the same answers for theirs sake.

 

 

 

 

 I am only saying that the last two special gifts mentioned by Paul in Corinth that required an interpretation ceased in course of time as the church grew spiritually.

 

 

 

 

So this is what you are saying underlined. Where is this in Scripture in red?

 

My OP indicates that.

 

 

 

I believe

the speaking an unknown tongue followed by interpretation observed in Corith ceased in the course of time. Speaking in a known language unknown to a person may have continued though I have not observed that personally.

 

 

So this underlined is what you believe and what you've not observed personally.

 

With all that fake behavior and claims, I have reasonably given a benefit of doubt on that latter aspect.

 

 

 

God is the God of order I agree. Yet underlined what we prefer has little to do with or effect on what God allows or enjoys?

 

Then it becomes obvioius that God does not like exhibition of base instincts of strange sounds and abnormal physical activities.

 

 

 

 

By the way, it is not the Corinthian tongue Mark is recording. It is known new tongue.

 

Subtle and profound differences can be made out when we know that the word of God takes us to a higher level of spiritual realm by keeping us looking up. Paul clearly admits that in Corinth it was his sprit that was praying when his mind was fruitless!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here underlined you admit that you have second hand experience from what others have witnessed.

 

In that case, who from Corinth can explain what was happening? We have variations in the four books of the Gospel. It is important to grasp the essence which is possible only when we are led by the Holy Spirit when the mind is fruitful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

again underlined you're thrusting your opinion on the topic and IMO claiming it as Biblical truth.

 

What happened in Corinth has been recorded. The episltes do not guarantee or strees it will happen again in the same fashion. Are we Corinthians with their culture and understanding?

 

 

 

Again, what does our belief have to do with what God does? God will do as He chooses. And what is more you are speaking on issues you again have not witnessed again in orange. Just because you have not witnessed something doesn't mean it doesn't exist brother.

 

On the same line God may not choose Corinthian conditions for us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to have to go back and re-work this (quotes and formatting) in order to understand what you're saying. This is getting very frustrating. <sigh>

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

After reviewing this thread it seems the disucssion is going round and round in circles KT. You are simply repeating yourself and giving opinion as Biblical truth. Let me illustrate...

 

 

 I am only saying that the last two special gifts mentioned by Paul in Corinth that required an interpretation ceased in course of time as the church grew spiritually.

 

Where does the Bible say this in red?

 

It is happening because those who participate in this thread, I think, will not look through my replies pertaining to the same question to others and continue to ask them. Therefore, I have no option but to repeat the same answers for theirs sake.

 

My OP indicates that.

 

------------------

 

 

Okay let's go back to the beggining.

 

Paul lists spiritual gifts in 1 Corinthians 12-14, Romans 12, and Ephesians 4. Of the three, 1 Corinthians is generally believed to have been penned first, Romans second, and Ephesians last (in order of the letters we are speaking of here).

 

The conditions in Corinth was worst. To bring order there, Paul came up with a condition of interpretation(that is not found in the book of Acts or elsewhere) hoping that speaking of unknown tongue prompted by person's spirit would cease as church grew in spirituality as it was sign meant for unbelievers.

 

I believe it ceased there soon as people took the advice of Paul to prefer prophesying. We don't see this phenomenon of speaking in an unknown tongue either in Rome or Ephesian subsequently, and it is not listed in the corresponding epistles.

 

This is your OP. In it you present the idea that in Corinth there was a condition of interpretation. However, the assumptions you make are not supported with Scripture IMO. The passages in 1 Cor. and the conditions presented for orderly worship was referring to speaking in tongues in a public venue. So the condition (public venue) to the conduct of orderly worship (public venue) doesn't apply IMO to speaking in tongues as an act of worship in private (personal prayer language). At least I see no Biblical support for what you're saying. Please clarify?

 

Further the passage doesn't specifiy if the languages spoken with the aid of the Holy Spirit were known or unknown. IMO you are reading into the text and superimposing your perspective on this issue. I've yet to be convinced otherwise.

 

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

 

Can you supply the scripture you are referring to?

Everything cannot be provided through Scripture that is limited.(John 21:25) Many were lost and destroyed before Canon was decided. For that main reason  Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to discern the truth even though Scripture existed at that time.

 

 

Finally I found an answer here in red. I guess I missed this with all the posts on this thread. For clarifiction John 21:25 in context is in regards to what other things JESUS did. It has nothing to do with missing instructions on uknown languages. It has nothing to do with missing instructions in Scripture either in purple. As to the attack on the Bible in purple that it is incomplete are you saying that God isn't powerful enough to protect Scripture - The Bible?

 

John 21:25

²⁵ And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

 

 

There is nothing Jesus could give instruction on something that He did not practice. We would be in trouble if we followed Paul instead of Jesus Christ. That is the crux of the problem. Earlier people were trying to follow Paul, Apollos, Peter, John, etc.

 

 

 

 

There is no way to prove through the thousands of Biblical texts that exist still today that Scripture has ever existed on this subject - that languages (Speaking in tongues - known or unknwon) have ceased. Perhaps again you're lacking faith in God's power to protect His Word - Scripture? Perhaps again you are taking personal conviction and equating it with Biblical truth?

 

The canonised Bible ends with Revelation. It does not mean nothing has affected in our growing knowledge in the Savior. How come the original texts have disappeared?

 

 

 

Something to ponder, pray, and consider brother.

 

Sure, that is why I am participating here. I participate in other Forums too for this purpose.

 

 

 

PS - I think in your discussions here you're actually hurting your cause rather than persuading others.

 

I do not know. It is my responsibility to share--result left to God!

 

Be blessed.

 

 

 

Interesting. I see no conflict between the teachings of Paul and Jesus Christ. I believe you are simply misunderstanding the passges in Scripture.

As to the crux of the problem... I do see comments that at the very least imply the Bible is not the inherant, inspired Word of God.

 

God bless,

GE

[enoob57]

and GE that there is needed other sources other than the Word of God....

[GoldenEagle]

and GE that there is needed other sources other than the Word of God....

 

Sorry brother I don't understand?

Are you saying "GE what is need other than the source the Word of God?"

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

You are the one that reasoned that Paul's epistle was written to the church at Corinth, and he was addessing them based on issues in their church.  That was the whole premise for your argument.  I completely agree that the epistles are to everyone.

 

 

Epistles are to be applied to us considering the context.

 

 

As a matter of fact, that weakens your argument, because there is no reason for Paul, or any other New Testament author to repeat the same things over and over.  Remember that it is God that actually wrote the Bible, but he used human vessels to pen his words.

 

 

What is important he has repeated. What was not found he has not explicitly mentioned. Paul was at Corinth for one and half years and many were baptized during his presence. No speaking of unknown tongue was observed.

 

 

 

Of course there are instances where a message is unBiblical.  Of course there are times where there are more than one interpretation given.  We are supposed to know enough about the Word to discern the difference?  The Bible allows for more than one interpretation to be given.  Even if you can cite the things you did, there is no proof that God never uses tongues and interpretation, and that there are just instances where someone wasn't really hearing from God? 

 

There is one and only absolute truth. If you believe in different interpretations and accept them all, I think, you are going off track!

 

 

Wow! How on earth did you get that out of what I said? I was speaking of the varying forms of praise and worship we see IN THE SCRIPTURES (not one mention of accepting multiple interpretations as equal or all true)

 

I don't agree with your point that Paul repeats everything that is important in more than one epistle.  He doesn't have to mention tongues repeatedly to show people were still speaking in tongues after he was in Corinth.  I never said all interpretations were correct.  I said that two or three people were allowed to give an interpretation.  I am also saying one of those three interpretations may well be correct?  We are to judge the matter based on scripture and discernment. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

The issue I was addressing here is divine healing.  You didn't believe it was for today, and I was showing it is a Biblical practice for today.  The reason we pray in the Spirit and with the understanding is because God is able to pray through us for what we really need, when we take our own intellect out of the picture. 

 

My thrust of the topic is that the speaking in unknown tongue requiring interpretation has ceased. I believe in all other gifts of the Spirit listed by Paul. What is more, there are gifts available that are not specifically listed. Speaking in known language may have continued though I have not witnessed that!

 

Again, you cannot pray in the Spirit. You can pray in your spirit helped by the Holy Spirit. This is a major problem in understanding of many! That is the reason I have started another thread in the same group "Who is groaning? Understanding Romans 8:26."

 

 

In the passage from Mark's gospel, those are just signs that follow believers.  Nobody has to bring a snake along to pray for the sick.  All he is saying is that if we have faith, even a snake won't harm us, like in the instance where Paul was bitten by the poisonous viper, and had no ill effects.  We are told not to tempt the Lord, so I don't believe in snake handling just to prove our faith. 

 

Did Paul go after the snake to test his faith? Why one should be forced to speak in unknown tongue with the beating of the drums and shouting by others? Should one prove his faith by speaking in unknown tongue after baptism? There are more instances in the Bible wherein people did not speak in tongue after baptism, that includes Paul also!

 

I disagree with you when you claim that tongues and interpretation of tongues has ceased.  I have seen it in practice, and just because you have seen instances where an interpretation was unbiblical, that doesn't prove it is never of God.  I have been in your other thread, and I don't agree with your interpretation of the verse in Romans.  In addition to that, just because the Bible doesn't say someone spoke in tongues in each and every instance where they were filled, that doesn't mean they didn't.  Something obviously occurred, or nobody would know when they were filled?  I have heard your arguments, and in each and every instance, it is just your opinion.  You can't prove anything you said is correct?  Obviously, I can't prove I am right to everyone's satisfaction either, but that just leaves us at an impass. 

[Elhanan]

Arguments made that tongues have ceased because of their supposed disappearance from mention in the epistles and absence in one's personal experience are essentially arguments based on silence - which is by nature a very weak argument to begin with. Although not specifically referring to tongues, Paul stated that the Spirit worked miracles amongst the Galatians - Gal 3:5.  Note that in this verse the Greek verbs are written in the present tense denoting the ongoing continuous nature of Spirit-wrought miracles amongst the Galatians. In other words at the time of Paul's letter, miracles did not cease but continued to occur the Galatian church.  In terms of today, I know a person very well who speaks in tongues.  She has found tongues useful in spiritual warfare - confronting demons (demons hate tongues employed against them) and also has the gift of discernment of spirits - able to identify the occurrence of someone speaking in a false tongue.

[Knowingtruth]

 

I do not know which type of tongue you are referring to, unknown or known tongue? I believe the unknown tongue that was observed only in Corinth disappeared.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps you could show biblical evidence of this?

 

Please read prayerfully the entire book of Acts and 1 Corinthians chapeters 12 to 14. Also please tell me where in the Bible the same gifts are going to be given everywhere?