Promise keepers

[shammah]

If the seed is corrupted (the Word), and you plant it in a ground that is hard, or rocky, or covered with weeds, it won't grow! Good ground must be broken, just as Christs body was broken for us, and made conformable to the will of the Father!

But even if the ground is good the seed of the word they sew today, is based on a one time confession, and satisfying those itching ears that re-enforce the error that you are eternally secure if you say the prayer or come forward!

True conversion must be taught that you are bought with a price, die to self, and hear and obey the Lord, which often contradicts the business plans of pastors, book writers, and all the so called popular christian leaders of this world!

2 Tim.4:2-9;

2Herald and preach the Word! Keep your sense of urgency [stand by, be at hand and ready], whether the opportunity seems to be favorable or unfavorable. [Whether it is convenient or inconvenient, whether it is welcome or unwelcome, you as preacher of the Word are to show people in what way their lives are wrong.] And convince them, rebuking and correcting, warning and urging and encouraging them, being unflagging and inexhaustible in patience and teaching.

3For the time is coming when [people] will not tolerate (endure) sound and wholesome instruction, but, having ears itching [for something pleasing and gratifying], they will gather to themselves one teacher after another to a considerable number, chosen to satisfy their own liking and to foster the errors they hold,

4And will turn aside from hearing the truth and wander off into myths and man-made fictions.

5As for you, be calm and cool and steady, accept and suffer unflinchingly every hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fully perform all the duties of your ministry.

6For I am already about to be sacrificed [my life is about to be poured out as a drink offering]; the time of my [spirit's] release [from the body] is at hand and I will soon go free.

7I have fought the good (worthy, honorable, and noble) fight, I have finished the race, I have kept (firmly held) the faith.

8[As to what remains] henceforth there is laid up for me the [victor's] crown of righteousness [for being right with God and doing right], which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me and recompense me on that [great] day--and not to me only, but also to all those who have loved and yearned for and welcomed His appearing (His return).

9Make every effort to come to me soon.

Eph.4:14,15;

14So then, we may no longer be children, tossed [like ships] to and fro between chance gusts of teaching and wavering with every changing wind of doctrine, [the prey of] the cunning and cleverness of [3] unscrupulous men, [gamblers engaged] in every shifting form of trickery in inventing errors to mislead.

15Rather, let our lives lovingly [4] express truth [in all things, speaking truly, dealing truly, living truly]. Enfolded in love, let us grow up in every way and in all things into Him Who is the Head, [even] Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One)

1 Timothy 6:3-11;

3But if anyone teaches otherwise and does not [1] assent to the sound and wholesome messages of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and the teaching which is in agreement with godliness (piety toward God),

4He is puffed up with pride and stupefied with conceit, [although he is] woefully ignorant. He has a [2] morbid fondness for controversy and disputes and strife about words, which result in (produce) envy and jealousy, quarrels and dissension, abuse and insults and slander, and base suspicions,

5And protracted wrangling and wearing discussion and perpetual friction among men who are corrupted in mind and bereft of the truth, who imagine that godliness or righteousness is a [3] source of profit [a moneymaking business, a means of livelihood]. ( FROM SUCH WITHDRAW ).

6[And it is, indeed, a source of immense profit, for] godliness accompanied with contentment (that contentment which is a sense of [4] inward sufficiency) is great and abundant gain.

7For we brought nothing into the world, and obviously we cannot take anything out of the world;

8But if we have food and clothing, with these we shall be content (satisfied).

9But those who crave to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish (useless, godless) and hurtful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction and miserable perishing.

10For the love of money is a root of all evils; it is through this craving that some have been led astray and have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves through with many [5] acute [mental] pangs.

11But as for you, O man of God, flee from all these things; aim at and pursue righteousness (right standing with God and true goodness), godliness (which is the loving fear of God and being Christlike), faith, love, steadfastness (patience), and gentleness of heart.

2 John.1:9-11;

9Anyone who runs on ahead [of God] and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ [who is not content with what He taught] does not have God; but he who continues to live in the doctrine (teaching) of Christ [does have God], he has both the Father and the Son.

10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine [is disloyal to what Jesus Christ taught], do not receive him [do not accept him, do not welcome or admit him] into [your] house or bid him Godspeed or give him any encouragement.

11For he who wishes him success [who encourages him, wishing him Godspeed] is a partaker in his evil doings.

Matt.10:21-27;

21Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child; and children will take a stand against their parents and will have them put to death.

22And you will be hated by all for My name's sake, but he who perseveres and endures to the end will be saved [[7] from spiritual disease and death in the world to come].

23When they persecute you in one town [that is, pursue you in a manner that would injure you and cause you to suffer because of your belief], flee to another town; for truly I tell you, you will not have gone through all the towns of Israel before [8] the Son of Man comes.

24A disciple is not above his teacher, nor is a servant or slave above his master.

25It is sufficient for the disciple to be like his teacher, and the servant or slave like his master. If they have called the Master of the house Beelzebub [[9] master of the dwelling], how much more will they speak evil of those of His household. [iI Kings 1:2.]

26So have no fear of them; for nothing is concealed that will not be revealed, or kept secret that will not become known.

27What I say to you in the dark, tell in the light; and what you hear whispered in the ear, proclaim upon the housetops.

28And do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; but rather be afraid of Him who can destroy both soul and body in hell (Gehenna).

Agape in Christ; Ephraim.

[Guest yod]

promise keepers split my old church

[IreneM]

you don't need to ingore me Im out of here

God forbid some one differ from the majority

I don't have the Holy Spirit in my back pocket

IreneM

[IreneM]

by the way I did not voice my opinion of promise keepers so you don't know how I feel about them

I posted the topic did not give my opinion of them

The fact that it split my church in no way tells you what I think of the group............

IreneM

[Guest yod]

Irene

I was talking to shammah/ephraim. You'd have to know the history, I suppose.

They think anyone/everyone in the church is deceived by the devil...and they are here to "enlighten" us poor slobs.

But regarding PK, I did post a sentence about new wineskins in old containers.

It's really hard to say who was in the wrong in your particular situation without knowing all parties involved but your post implies that PK was the problem and I know it was much deeper than that.

The founders of PK (Coach McCartney & Raleigh Washington) left a while back and I have no knowledge about the "new" PK....but PK was one of the most fruitful ministries in America during the 90s.

[shammah]

I don't think anyone said that Mormons are speakers at Promise Keeper Meetings.

James.5:12;

12But (ABOVE ALL THINGS), my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath; but let your yes be [a simple] yes, and your no be [a simple] no, so that you may not sin and fall under condemnation!

Matt.5:34-37;

34But I tell you, Do not bind yourselves by an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is the throne of God;

35Or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.(8)

36And do not swear by your head, for you are not able to make a single hair white or black.

37Let your Yes be simply Yes, and your No be simply No; anything more than that comes from the evil one.(9

You may try to say that a promise isn't as binding as an oath, but the promisekeepers take it quite seriously!

So I would have to say the whole concept of making promises which are really oaths and covenants goes against the teaching of the bible, and Christ Himself!

We live in a degenerate generation where our yes and no, or trusting in our word is almost meaningless, so they form these systems of control to bind the group together for good or ill.

Yet they did find ONE verse from the Bible concerning "promises" (as we have shown above - What Promise Keepers Believes about it's "promises"...), and amazingly enough they use it as their basis for making promises:

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" (Numbers 23:19) [12]

And even from this one verse alone, it is obvious that the Bible teaches: (1) that men lie, (2) that men change their mind, and (3) that men make promises and then do not fulfill them. God is different -- which is why HE can make promises (which is our hope and assurance).

But "Promise Keepers", whether saved, sanctified and redeemed -- or not -- are still men -- men who lie, change their mind, and break their promises, and therefore should NOT make them -- this verse does not teach otherwise, nor does any other verse in the entire Bible. And this will be known to anyone who TRULY desires to learn what God's counsel is about such matters.

I don't have a problem with six of the seven promises, though I think just being a good Christian fulfils them without an oath; but breaking down denominational barriers can only be accomplished by compromise! One denomination will say you must accept this, if we accept that, or do away with standards completely for the sake of a world religion!

6. Reaching beyond any racial and denominational barriers to

demonstrate the power of biblical unity.

Heres a little research on the Promise keepers.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PROMISE KEEPERS

Is What You See What You Get?

By Al Dager

(

Edited December 2, 2004 by shammah

[larryt]

Hi All,

Did you catch this or did you just skim over it?

It is doubtful, if asked, that the Promise Keepers would directly affirm or deny these three promises. Nonetheless, Catholics, Mormons, and Reorganized Mormons know that the three unwritten promises exist and they trust the three promises will be kept.

The three unwritten promises of Promise Keepers are very simply:

1. Promise Keepers will not violate your doctrines.

2. Promise Keepers will not proselytize your men.

3. Promise Keepers will send men back to their parishes, churches, and wards.

If these three unwritten promises were not committed to and kept, why would Catholics, Mormons, and Reorganized Mormons encourage their men to participate? Would they send their men to rallies or meetings where their doctrines would be violated or their men would be proselytized and stolen from their parishes, churches, and wards? Absolutely not! And, that is what we were told in speaking to numerous Catholics, Mormons, and Reorganized Mormons.

No one has said that PK allows mormons to speak, but they are not told the truth: "Come out from among them and be separate."

LT

[apothanein kerdos]

George,

How can Mormens  even have fellowship with PK since they don't believe Jesus is God? And let stand to  be in unity??

Doesn't sound right..Angels

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh yes, because let's not invite the lost to an event where there is potential for them to get saved. What an utter abomination!

I am somewhat weary of the new PK. Some of the amazing teachers during the first one (such as Tony Evans) no longer do these events. Also, let's not use articles that are outside of the PK to discredit the PK. Most of these have their own agenda's in judging. Instead, turn to the PK website that even states that mormon doctrine is not consistent with Christianity.

[JewishHeart]

All I know is that my dad once was a workaholic, he only sought after G-d when it was convenient, and fought with my mom all the time. After he went to PK in 1994, he came back a changed man. Since then he has been an excellent father, works in balance to provide for his family, a great husband, in love and servant of Yeshua, and most of all my ministries number one supporter (his son). This has lasted ten years now and going, I wouldn't call this temporary fruit... but rather fruit that lasts. He has grown each year in love since. Every ministry has its weaknesses and strengths, but I would like to see the fruit of the accusers on a scale next to Promise Keepers. If the scale measures low, keep your mouth shut.

[shammah]

All I know is that my dad once was a workaholic, he only sought after G-d when it was convenient, and fought with my mom all the time. After he went to PK in 1994, he came back a changed man.  Since then he has been an excellent father, works in balance to provide for his family, a great husband, in love and servant of Yeshua, and most of all my ministries number one supporter (his son). This has lasted ten years now and going, I wouldn't call this temporary fruit... but rather fruit that lasts.  He has grown each year in love since. Every ministry has its weaknesses and strengths, but I would like to see the fruit of the accusers on a scale next to Promise Keepers. If the scale measures low, keep your mouth shut.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, your saying, keep our mouths shut from speaking the truth in Love?

Wow, what kind of Bible do you read???? Where is your discernment, this man who did this study brought out some very disterbing compromises in the Promise Keepers doctrines!!!!

Well, it is clear, that we are living in the last days where men want teachers, speaking sweet things to them, instead of repentance.

Only spoken in the Love of Yah Shua, shammah