Split: Your Views... Women Wearing Pants

[GoldenEagle]

 

Right because as Christians we are to be known for our high standards. That's a command Jesus gave right?

We certainly don't want a reputation of ignoring God's Word and being in open rebellion.  I don't want any part of a church that does that. 

 

 

Who said anything about ignoring God's Word. Speaking of which...

 

John 13:31-35

The New Commandment

³¹ So, when he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him. ³² If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and glorify Him immediately. ³³ Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you. ³⁴ A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. ³⁵ By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

1. How is it loving to tell a woman she is sinning by wearing pants? Particularly when I would imagine at least 95% of people on WB don't hold the same personal conviction as you on this matter brother?

 

 

 

My question is this. Then I will try to let it go.

 

I am a women who wears pants. I am also a Christian. By telling you that I wear pants, would you then accuse me of not being a Christian? If you see a women at the store or on the street wearing paints. Do you look at her and say "no she is not a Christian women because she is in pants"?

 

Just trying to get a feel for how someone other then myself  thinks is all.

No.  I don't automatically jump to that conclusion, however I do know of some people that would.  I just look at it like we all are at different places in our walk, and we haven't all come to the same beliefs.  Jesus is the final judge of who is saved and who is lost.

 

 

2. Are you saying Butero that a woman who is MORE spiritual will come to understand that wearing pants are a sin?

 

Gal. 5:22-26

²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³ gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. ²⁴ And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. ²⁵ If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. ²⁶ Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

3. Where does this passage above, which clearly exemplifies the fruit of the Holy Spirit, say that we as Believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit will be known by our standards?

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest Butero]

 

 

Right because as Christians we are to be known for our high standards. That's a command Jesus gave right?

We certainly don't want a reputation of ignoring God's Word and being in open rebellion.  I don't want any part of a church that does that. 

 

 

Who said anything about ignoring God's Word. Speaking of which...

 

John 13:31-35

The New Commandment

³¹ So, when he had gone out, Jesus said, “Now the Son of Man is glorified, and God is glorified in Him. ³² If God is glorified in Him, God will also glorify Him in Himself, and glorify Him immediately. ³³ Little children, I shall be with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come,’ so now I say to you. ³⁴ A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another. ³⁵ By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”

 

1. How is it loving to tell a woman she is sinning by wearing pants? Particularly when I would imagine at least 95% of people on WB don't hold the same personal conviction as you on this matter brother?

 

 

 

My question is this. Then I will try to let it go.

 

I am a women who wears pants. I am also a Christian. By telling you that I wear pants, would you then accuse me of not being a Christian? If you see a women at the store or on the street wearing paints. Do you look at her and say "no she is not a Christian women because she is in pants"?

 

Just trying to get a feel for how someone other then myself  thinks is all.

No.  I don't automatically jump to that conclusion, however I do know of some people that would.  I just look at it like we all are at different places in our walk, and we haven't all come to the same beliefs.  Jesus is the final judge of who is saved and who is lost.

 

 

2. Are you saying Butero that a woman who is MORE spiritual will come to understand that wearing pants are a sin?

 

Gal. 5:22-26

²² But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, ²³ gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. ²⁴ And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. ²⁵ If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. ²⁶ Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

 

3. Where does this passage above, which clearly exemplifies the fruit of the Holy Spirit, say that we as Believers indwelt by the Holy Spirit will be known by our standards?

 

God bless,

GE

 

How is it loving to not tell someone if they are doing something that might jeopardize their soul?  The OT false prophets were said to have healed the hurt of God's people a little by giving them soothing words, or in other words, failing to warn them of their sins and the judgment to come.  God's prophets were often out numbered 400 to 1 or worse.  The 95 percent can be wrong. 

 

I believe that if we are open to accept anything God has for us, he will reveal what is right and wrong.  If a person is closed off because they don't want to stop doing something they love, he can't get through?  That could just as easily apply to a person that loves to watch movies or sports, so I am not limiting this to one thing. 

 

God expects us to obey him.  The Bible says that obedience is better than sacrifice, and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.  The itching ear teachers will have a following.  Who doesn't want to be told that they are doing everything right?  The broad road is the road everyone will love to travel in this life, but in the end, it leads to destruction. 

[GoldenEagle]

 

Interesting I was talking to a friend from Europe and Capri pants (normally something for women) are in style for men to wear in the summers. Are they sinning too Butero by wearing that which was originally intended for a woman?

If it can be shown that Capri pants pertain to a woman, yes they are, but I reject the notion that pants ever pertain to a woman, capris or otherwise. 

 

Originated on Capri Island... Created by Sonja de Lennart

 

 

 

The good thing about an island, of course, is that there are limits to growth. Capri covers only about four square miles, and inhabitable land is limited by the sharp volcanic mountain ridge that runs across the island, its peak separating the eastern and western lobes. There's a village on each side of the peak - Capri proper on the east, and higher Anacapri on the west.

 

The island has long been synonymous with fashion: Think Capri pants (designed in 1948 by Sonja de Lennart), handmade sandals, and jewelry fashioned from the orange-red Mediterranean coral. Florentine designer Emilio Pucci, who launched a haute couture salon on Capri in 1957, credited the island and its myriad of colors and patterns as inspiration for his designs.

Full article: http://www.boston.com/travel/getaways/europe/articles/2008/06/29/ancient_capri_still_casts_its_powerful_spell/?page=full

 

 

They were first only worn by women... Created by Sonja de Lennar...

 

 

 

The European fashion designer Sonja de Lennart invented the famous Capri pants in 1948. Well known as Capris, long or three-quarter shorts, they end below the knee and calf. The pants name comes from the Italian isle of Capri, where they rose to popularity in the late 1950s and early 1960s. First only worn by women, they later became popular also with men in many countries, especially in Europe and Latin America. The American actress Grace Kelly was the first movie star who wore Capris.

Full article: http://www.speak-fashion.de/fashion_history/classics/fashion-history-classcis-capri-pants

There are other sources that show that this style of pants was originally created for and worn by women.

God bless,

GE

[Guest Butero]

 

 

Interesting I was talking to a friend from Europe and Capri pants (normally something for women) are in style for men to wear in the summers. Are they sinning too Butero by wearing that which was originally intended for a woman?

If it can be shown that Capri pants pertain to a woman, yes they are, but I reject the notion that pants ever pertain to a woman, capris or otherwise. 

 

Originated on Capri Island... Created by Sonja de Lennart

 

 

 

The good thing about an island, of course, is that there are limits to growth. Capri covers only about four square miles, and inhabitable land is limited by the sharp volcanic mountain ridge that runs across the island, its peak separating the eastern and western lobes. There's a village on each side of the peak - Capri proper on the east, and higher Anacapri on the west.

 

The island has long been synonymous with fashion: Think Capri pants (designed in 1948 by Sonja de Lennart), handmade sandals, and jewelry fashioned from the orange-red Mediterranean coral. Florentine designer Emilio Pucci, who launched a haute couture salon on Capri in 1957, credited the island and its myriad of colors and patterns as inspiration for his designs.

Full article: http://www.boston.com/travel/getaways/europe/articles/2008/06/29/ancient_capri_still_casts_its_powerful_spell/?page=full

 

 

They were first only worn by women... Created by Sonja de Lennar...

 

 

 

The European fashion designer Sonja de Lennart invented the famous Capri pants in 1948. Well known as Capris, long or three-quarter shorts, they end below the knee and calf. The pants name comes from the Italian isle of Capri, where they rose to popularity in the late 1950s and early 1960s. First only worn by women, they later became popular also with men in many countries, especially in Europe and Latin America. The American actress Grace Kelly was the first movie star who wore Capris.

Full article: http://www.speak-fashion.de/fashion_history/classics/fashion-history-classcis-capri-pants

There are other sources that show that this style of pants was originally created for and worn by women.

God bless,

GE

 

Then I would put it in the camp with other pants made and sold to women.  They are unclean garments, similar to the unclean Babylonian garments spoken of in the OT.  They are neither clean for men or women.  That is my opinion.  Take it or leave it.  At this point, I don't care. 

 

I just thought of something that is kind of funny to me.  Sometime back, Nebula commented that when she started seeing men wear capris, she would reconsider her position that it was ok for women to wear pants.  This stood out to me because it was about a month later that I actually saw a man wearing capris while traveling through Indiana.  It doesn't mean anything, but I was able to find humor in this exercize in futility. 

[GoldenEagle]

How is it loving to not tell someone if they are doing something that might jeopardize their soul?  The OT false prophets were said to have healed the hurt of God's people a little by giving them soothing words, or in other words, failing to warn them of their sins and the judgment to come.  God's prophets were often out numbered 400 to 1 or worse.  The 95 percent can be wrong. 

 

 

I believe that if we are open to accept anything God has for us, he will reveal what is right and wrong.  If a person is closed off because they don't want to stop doing something they love, he can't get through?  That could just as easily apply to a person that loves to watch movies or sports, so I am not limiting this to one thing. 

 

God expects us to obey him.  The Bible says that obedience is better than sacrifice, and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.  The itching ear teachers will have a following.  Who doesn't want to be told that they are doing everything right?  The broad road is the road everyone will love to travel in this life, but in the end, it leads to destruction. 

 

So you ARE saying that if a Christian woman wears pants it could jeopardize her soul? This is a bit confusing in bold.

 

The difference in this discussion is the OT false prophets and the OT phrophets of God is not the same circumstances we're describing.  In that case there were heathens (OT False Prophets) and those who followed God (OT prophets of God). So this comparison is a stretch at best and faulty at worst.

The position you (you are a Christian indwelt by the Holy Spirit) have taken (pants should not be worn by a woman as this is sin) and other CHRISTIANS (who are ALSO indwelt by the Holy Spirit) position on this issue is that both sides have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

You are not in the minority standing up for truth. You are in the minority standing up for your personal conviction. (Which is fine by the way, just not portraying your personal conviction as universal Biblical truth... ) Surely you can see the difference?

In any case yes as Christ-followers we are to be obedient to God. Sure. Yet we're commanded to love God and love people. Jesus specifically commanded us to love one another. THAT is how we're to be known - the evidence is the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. Not by our standards. After all standards change across cultures and times. But God's Word stays the same. Surely we can agree on this?

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

 

Then I would put it in the camp with other pants made and sold to women.  They are unclean garments, similar to the unclean Babylonian garments spoken of in the OT.  They are neither clean for men or women.  That is my opinion.  Take it or leave it.  At this point, I don't care. 

 

 

Capris were made by a woman and sold to women for at least 2-3 decades before they were sold to men. But okay brother. Capris are unclean Babylonian garments...So men or women shouldn't capris. And women for sure shouldn't wear pants. Gotcha.

 

 

 

 

 I already stated that I have heard every possible argument for women wearing pants, so nobody is coming back with anything that will remotely change my mind.

 

 

Clearly.

[Guest Butero]

 

How is it loving to not tell someone if they are doing something that might jeopardize their soul?  The OT false prophets were said to have healed the hurt of God's people a little by giving them soothing words, or in other words, failing to warn them of their sins and the judgment to come.  God's prophets were often out numbered 400 to 1 or worse.  The 95 percent can be wrong. 

 

 

I believe that if we are open to accept anything God has for us, he will reveal what is right and wrong.  If a person is closed off because they don't want to stop doing something they love, he can't get through?  That could just as easily apply to a person that loves to watch movies or sports, so I am not limiting this to one thing. 

 

God expects us to obey him.  The Bible says that obedience is better than sacrifice, and rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.  The itching ear teachers will have a following.  Who doesn't want to be told that they are doing everything right?  The broad road is the road everyone will love to travel in this life, but in the end, it leads to destruction. 

 

So you ARE saying that if a Christian woman wears pants it could jeopardize her soul? This is a bit confusing in bold.

 

The difference in this discussion is the OT false prophets and the OT phrophets of God is not the same circumstances we're describing.  In that case there were heathens (OT False Prophets) and those who followed God (OT prophets of God). So this comparison is a stretch at best and faulty at worst.

The position you (you are a Christian indwelt by the Holy Spirit) have taken (pants should not be worn by a woman as this is sin) and other CHRISTIANS (who are ALSO indwelt by the Holy Spirit) position on this issue is that both sides have the Holy Spirit indwelling them.

You are not in the minority standing up for truth. You are in the minority standing up for your personal conviction. (Which is fine by the way, just not portraying your personal conviction as universal Biblical truth... ) Surely you can see the difference?

In any case yes as Christ-followers we are to be obedient to God. Sure. Yet we're commanded to love God and love people. Jesus specifically commanded us to love one another. THAT is how we're to be known - the evidence is the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. Not by our standards. After all standards change across cultures and times. But God's Word stays the same. Surely we can agree on this?

God bless,

GE

 

I do not agree with you.  I reject the notion this is a person conviction.  It is an application of scripture with regard to modern life.  I am taking a scripture, and showing where people are guilty of sin today.  Sin will jeopardize a person's soul, so if I am ultimately proven to be right, and it is an abomination for women to wear pants, it does put those women in danger.  Pastor Chambers has stated he believes women that wear pants won't go in the rapture.  As I stated earlier, I am not the final judge, so I don't determine who is saved and who is lost.  For that reason, I simply share my knowledge and others have to decide for themselves if what I said has any merit?  We are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  I believe I am in the minority standing up for the truth, and you are going to have to answer one day for soothing the hurt of God's people a little.  I am not saying that to offend you or to attack you.  You seem to want to know how I view it, so I am being straight with you. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

Then I would put it in the camp with other pants made and sold to women.  They are unclean garments, similar to the unclean Babylonian garments spoken of in the OT.  They are neither clean for men or women.  That is my opinion.  Take it or leave it.  At this point, I don't care. 

 

 

Capris were made by a woman and sold to women for at least 2-3 decades before they were sold to men. But okay brother. Capris are unclean Babylonian garments...So men or women shouldn't capris. And women for sure shouldn't wear pants. Gotcha.

 

 

 

 

 I already stated that I have heard every possible argument for women wearing pants, so nobody is coming back with anything that will remotely change my mind.

 

 

Clearly.

 

Good.  I am glad we got that straightened out?  BTW, as I said earlier, if you think you have some new insight I haven't heard, and you want to debate this in the Soap Box, I am more than willing.  That is entirely up to you? 

[GoldenEagle]

 

In any case yes as Christ-followers we are to be obedient to God. Sure. Yet we're commanded to love God and love people. Jesus specifically commanded us to love one another. THAT is how we're to be known - the evidence is the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. Not by our standards. After all standards change across cultures and times. But God's Word stays the same. Surely we can agree on this?

God bless,

GE

 

 

I do not agree with you.  I reject the notion this is a person conviction.  It is an application of scripture with regard to modern life.  I am taking a scripture, and showing where people are guilty of sin today.  Sin will jeopardize a person's soul, so if I am ultimately proven to be right, and it is an abomination for women to wear pants, it does put those women in danger.  Pastor Chambers has stated he believes women that wear pants won't go in the rapture.  As I stated earlier, I am not the final judge, so I don't determine who is saved and who is lost.  For that reason, I simply share my knowledge and others have to decide for themselves if what I said has any merit?  We are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  I believe I am in the minority standing up for the truth, and you are going to have to answer one day for soothing the hurt of God's people a little.  I am not saying that to offend you or to attack you.  You seem to want to know how I view it, so I am being straight with you. 

 

I appreciate your honesty.

I suppose once again we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject. I see nothing in Scripture that points to women wearing pants a sin. I find your application of this verse faulty. But I digress. We will not agree on this subject.

However, can we agree on what I said in highlighted in red?

God bless,

GE

[Guest Butero]

 

 

In any case yes as Christ-followers we are to be obedient to God. Sure. Yet we're commanded to love God and love people. Jesus specifically commanded us to love one another. THAT is how we're to be known - the evidence is the fruit of the Spirit in our lives. Not by our standards. After all standards change across cultures and times. But God's Word stays the same. Surely we can agree on this?

God bless,

GE

 

 

I do not agree with you.  I reject the notion this is a person conviction.  It is an application of scripture with regard to modern life.  I am taking a scripture, and showing where people are guilty of sin today.  Sin will jeopardize a person's soul, so if I am ultimately proven to be right, and it is an abomination for women to wear pants, it does put those women in danger.  Pastor Chambers has stated he believes women that wear pants won't go in the rapture.  As I stated earlier, I am not the final judge, so I don't determine who is saved and who is lost.  For that reason, I simply share my knowledge and others have to decide for themselves if what I said has any merit?  We are told to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling.  I believe I am in the minority standing up for the truth, and you are going to have to answer one day for soothing the hurt of God's people a little.  I am not saying that to offend you or to attack you.  You seem to want to know how I view it, so I am being straight with you. 

 

I appreciate your honesty.

I suppose once again we'll have to agree to disagree on this subject.

However, can we agree on what I said in highlighted in red?

God bless,

GE

 

I agree that we are to love one another.  The reason I am hesitant to take this further is because people look at love different.  There are unbelievers that love others, do great works of charity, etc.  One of the nicest women I know is an atheist.  Love is something we should be known for.