It Is All A Process

[OneLight]

So Christ is not enough to be saved? It is not enough to have faith in Jesus? Seems like scripture states otherwise. 

 

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it isthe gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

Romans 10

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth oneconfesses unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Getting in the WAY of Christ by being SAVED doesn't guarantee that a person will complete their sanctification/born again process. Whether a person completes the process of becoming holy and sanctified is upto the person's desires and faith. Not every person will desire to become a true son of God, so not every person will complete the process.

 

If a person is earnest about becoming entirely sanctifed (born again), than God will finish the process in them.

We are justified and saved at the moment of belief. Sanctification, which does not affect our salvation status, is a lifelong process. You seem to lump the two together.

We are justified and saved by our beliefs - in the amounts of our beliefs/faith. We must go on to full belief to be fully sanctified/born again.

 

For example: If someone is still sinning against God's known will, then this shows God and others that that person does not believe God's Truth fully, but is instead believing a lie instead.

 

No one can sin while believing God's Truth, but they can only sin by believing in one or more lies. If someone is still believing lies and sinning, then they are not believing in Christ, which is the Truth of God.

We are saved first, then the Holy Spirit works within us to change us to be Christ like. When the person accepts Christ as their Savior, they are saved, even if they are still a baby in Christ, still living partly in the world and still partly in sin. TO imply that one must be perfect before they are saved is not scriptural, for we will not be perfect until we are with Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice that works comes after salvation. This is a life long process, and an immediate process.

We also read that the difference is in how we live, not that we are sinless.

Ephesians 4:17-24

This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

Notice how the Gentiles were blind in their hearts, given to lewdness, and to work all uncleanness with greediness? One cannot remain in this lifestyle if they are saved. The Holy Spirit will convict them of their sin.

We can see even clearer the differences between walking in the flesh and walking in the Spirit through Galatians 5:16-26.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.

IN the above, what keeps one from being saved? It is the "practice" of such lifestyle, meaning to continue to live in them, not by committing them one or twice is weakness. You are placing a yoke upon people that is not there.

In the Greek, the work prassontes (G4238) is used, where the KJV turns it into "those which do such things", giving the spin that they mean even once. The Greek word means to perform repeatedly, not once. Here is what a Greek dictionary tells us about the word parassontes:

To do, make , perform in general, expressing an action as continued or not yet completed, what one does repeatedly, continually, habitually.

Here is the regular differentiation from the English dictionary:

practice

1.habitual or customary performance; operation: office practice.

2.habit; custom: It is not the practice here for men to wear long hair.

3.repeated performance or systematic exercise for the purpose of acquiring skill or proficiency: Practice makes perfect.

4.condition arrived at by experience or exercise: She refused to play the piano, because she was out of practice.

5.the action or process of performing or doing something: to put a scheme into practice; the shameful practices of a blackmailer.

You see, it is the continuing action, unwilling to change, that is the separating factor, not the once or twice weakness that we all go through. To say one must be sinless to be saved is not true. It is our hearts that God judges, more than our actions.

[OneWithGod]

 

 

 

 

So Christ is not enough to be saved? It is not enough to have faith in Jesus? Seems like scripture states otherwise. 

 

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it isthe gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

Romans 10

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth oneconfesses unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Getting in the WAY of Christ by being SAVED doesn't guarantee that a person will complete their sanctification/born again process. Whether a person completes the process of becoming holy and sanctified is upto the person's desires and faith. Not every person will desire to become a true son of God, so not every person will complete the process.

 

If a person is earnest about becoming entirely sanctifed (born again), than God will finish the process in them.

 

We are justified and saved at the moment of belief. Sanctification, which does not affect our salvation status, is a lifelong process. You seem to lump the two together.

 

 

We are justified and saved by our beliefs - in the amounts of our beliefs/faith. We must go on to full belief to be fully sanctified/born again.

 

For example: If someone is still sinning against God's known will, then this shows God and others that that person does not believe God's Truth fully, but is instead believing a lie instead.

 

No one can sin while believing God's Truth, but they can only sin by believing in one or more lies. If someone is still believing lies and sinning, then they are not believing in Christ, which is the Truth of God.

We are saved first, then the Holy Spirit works within us to change us to be Christ like. When the person accepts Christ as their Savior, they are saved, even if they are still a baby in Christ, still living partly in the world and still partly in sin. TO imply that one must be perfect before they are saved is not scriptural, for we will not be perfect until we are with Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice that works comes after salvation.

 

If a person truly understands faith, then they will also know that a faith without works is a dead faith and worth nothing for salvation.

 

James 2:20-24 - You foolish man , do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.  NIV

 

So, if a person has faith in Christ, who is the Truth of God, then their works will show their faith - which means they will have all good fruit and not be sinning anymore.

 

Faith always comes before the good works, but if the good works doesn't flow from a person, then their faith is dead.

 

Edited August 31, 2013 by OneWithGod

[OneLight]

So Christ is not enough to be saved? It is not enough to have faith in Jesus? Seems like scripture states otherwise. 

 

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it isthe gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

Romans 10

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth oneconfesses unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Getting in the WAY of Christ by being SAVED doesn't guarantee that a person will complete their sanctification/born again process. Whether a person completes the process of becoming holy and sanctified is upto the person's desires and faith. Not every person will desire to become a true son of God, so not every person will complete the process.

 

If a person is earnest about becoming entirely sanctifed (born again), than God will finish the process in them.

We are justified and saved at the moment of belief. Sanctification, which does not affect our salvation status, is a lifelong process. You seem to lump the two together.

We are justified and saved by our beliefs - in the amounts of our beliefs/faith. We must go on to full belief to be fully sanctified/born again.

 

For example: If someone is still sinning against God's known will, then this shows God and others that that person does not believe God's Truth fully, but is instead believing a lie instead.

 

No one can sin while believing God's Truth, but they can only sin by believing in one or more lies. If someone is still believing lies and sinning, then they are not believing in Christ, which is the Truth of God.

We are saved first, then the Holy Spirit works within us to change us to be Christ like. When the person accepts Christ as their Savior, they are saved, even if they are still a baby in Christ, still living partly in the world and still partly in sin. TO imply that one must be perfect before they are saved is not scriptural, for we will not be perfect until we are with Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice that works comes after salvation.

If a person truly understands faith, then they will also know that a faith without works is a dead faith and worth nothing for salvation.

 

James 2:20-24 - You foolish man , do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.  NIV

 

So, if a person has faith in Christ, who is the Truth of God, then their works will show their faith - which means they will have all good fruit and not be sinning anymore.

 

Faith always comes before the good works, but if the good works doesn't flow from a person, then their faith is dead.

I am addressing your stance that one who is saved must be perfect, not that they should/does not have to do works.

Tell me one thing, when you were first saved, was your faith and works as they are today? Were you immediately made mature with all understanding, perfect in all of Gods ways?

Again, you place a yoke around your own neck, along with others, but trying to tell them that they need to be sinless, which is impossible to do, but what we strive to be.

By the way, I was not finished with the post you replied to, and added much more to it. I hit post prematurely.

[OneWithGod]

 

 

 

 

 

 

So Christ is not enough to be saved? It is not enough to have faith in Jesus? Seems like scripture states otherwise. 

 

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it isthe gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

Romans 10

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth oneconfesses unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Getting in the WAY of Christ by being SAVED doesn't guarantee that a person will complete their sanctification/born again process. Whether a person completes the process of becoming holy and sanctified is upto the person's desires and faith. Not every person will desire to become a true son of God, so not every person will complete the process.

 

If a person is earnest about becoming entirely sanctifed (born again), than God will finish the process in them.

 

We are justified and saved at the moment of belief. Sanctification, which does not affect our salvation status, is a lifelong process. You seem to lump the two together.

 

 

We are justified and saved by our beliefs - in the amounts of our beliefs/faith. We must go on to full belief to be fully sanctified/born again.

 

For example: If someone is still sinning against God's known will, then this shows God and others that that person does not believe God's Truth fully, but is instead believing a lie instead.

 

No one can sin while believing God's Truth, but they can only sin by believing in one or more lies. If someone is still believing lies and sinning, then they are not believing in Christ, which is the Truth of God.

We are saved first, then the Holy Spirit works within us to change us to be Christ like. When the person accepts Christ as their Savior, they are saved, even if they are still a baby in Christ, still living partly in the world and still partly in sin. TO imply that one must be perfect before they are saved is not scriptural, for we will not be perfect until we are with Christ.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Notice that works comes after salvation.

 

If a person truly understands faith, then they will also know that a faith without works is a dead faith and worth nothing for salvation.

 

James 2:20-24 - You foolish man , do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.  NIV

 

So, if a person has faith in Christ, who is the Truth of God, then their works will show their faith - which means they will have all good fruit and not be sinning anymore.

 

Faith always comes before the good works, but if the good works doesn't flow from a person, then their faith is dead.

 

I am addressing your stance that one who is saved must be perfect, not that they should/does not have to do works.

 

To be married to Christ, a person must be made perfect in His love. For Christ will not be unequally yoked with un-perfection.

Tell me one thing, when you were first saved, was your faith and works as they are today? Were you immediately made mature with all understanding, perfect in all of Gods ways?

 

No, it took me 25 years to let God perfect me into a son of God. Then in the last 6-7 years Christ has perfected me even more like Him. - Glory to glory.

 

Again, you place a yoke around your own neck, along with others, but trying to tell them that they need to be sinless, which is impossible to do, but what we strive to be.

 

Christ's yoke is light - for all the things Christ calls me to do is what I desire to do, which makes it easy. When a person has the nature/Spirit of Christ, they will naturally do the things of Christ.

By the way, I was not finished with the post you replied to, and added much more to it. I hit post prematurely.

 

Ok, I will go back and take a look at it.

 

[OneWithGod]

IN the above, what keeps one from being saved? It is the "practice" of such lifestyle, meaning to continue to live in them, not by committing them one or twice is weakness. You are placing a yoke upon people that is not there.

In the Greek, the work prassontes (G4238) is used, where the KJV turns it into "those which do such things", giving the spin that they mean even once. The Greek word means to perform repeatedly, not once. Here is what a Greek dictionary tells us about the word parassontes:

To do, make , perform in general, expressing an action as continued or not yet completed, what one does repeatedly, continually, habitually.

Here is the regular differentiation from the English dictionary:

practice

1.habitual or customary performance; operation: office practice.
2.habit; custom: It is not the practice here for men to wear long hair.
3.repeated performance or systematic exercise for the purpose of acquiring skill or proficiency: Practice makes perfect.
4.condition arrived at by experience or exercise: She refused to play the piano, because she was out of practice.
5.the action or process of performing or doing something: to put a scheme into practice; the shameful practices of a blackmailer.

You see, it is the continuing action, unwilling to change, that is the separating factor, not the once or twice weakness that we all go through. To say one must be sinless to be saved is not true. It is our hearts that God judges, more than our actions.

 

The newer versions (after 1950) have lightened up and corrupted God's Word. The word "Practice" is not in the older NT versions of God's Scriptures. This was added by the sinful reasoning of men that wrote these newer version of the bible.

 

If someone desires to go with these corrupted newer versions of the bible that are light on sin, then let it be so, for they are looking for all the excuses they can to keep sinning - to support their current lifestyles and to keep promoting the bondage of sin in other "Christians".

Edited August 31, 2013 by OneWithGod

[Willa]

I wonder if we are not saying the same thing using different terms. I would say that we are instructed to put on the mind of Christ as in Ephesians 4:17-5:4. v.22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man, which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

In 4:25-5:4 he then lists the things to put off and things to put on. Put off: lying, wrath, stealing, corrupt words, grieving the Holy Spirit,

Bitterness, anger, evil speaking, malice, fornication, uncleanness, covetousness, filthiness, foolish talking, coarse jesting.

Put on: speaking truth, laboring and working with your hands soas to give to the poor, words that speak edification and grace to the hearer; be kind, tenderhearted, forgiving, immitators of God; put on God's self sacreficing love, and give thanks.

Note that it does not say: don't smoke, don't chew, don't mix with those who do, don't play cards, don't go to movies, don't etc etc, which I consider the traditions of the pharasees because they are man's traditions and are not expressly stated in Scripture. In fact, the only things placed on Gentiles are to give to the poor and don't eat blood or things sacreficed to idols, or sexual immorality, (taking part in idolitry's evil practices).

Where we disagree is that this is needed for salvation. For while we were yet sinners Christ died for us. We are told that those who continue to practice sin will not inherit the kingdom of God and Christ. God will be changing our hearts to not desire to sin but to desire to do good. That is putting on the mind of Christ so that we acquire His attitude toward evil. We are also told that as we learn to walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh. So it is a matter of putting on the mind of Christ and learning to walk in the Spirit and hear God's voice. This is a slow process for most of us and will not be completed before death. All Christians have been set apart for God. We are saved from the time we receive Christ into our lives. But there is a process of being saved or delivered from specific sins, or of being cleansed from all unrighteousness when we confess them. And we should not judge one another as to these things because we all procede differently. Some struggle for years with a sin that others were delivered from immediately.

Sanctify means to concecrate to God. From the time we give ourselves or surrender to God we are sanctified to Him and are called saints. When we receive Christ we have the Holy Spirit in us and all that belongs to Christ is ours because He lives in us. If we do not have a different attitude toward sin in some degree, we are not saved. So if a person brags about past sins without embarassment or feeling guilty for doing so, he may not be saved. Repentance, which is turning away from our sin in our minds and toward Christ for salvation, is necessary to be saved. All of salvation is by grace through faith, not of ourselves, but is a free gift from God so that no one can boast. Repentance is also a gift from God, since it was GRANTED to the gentiles. He by grace draws us, convicts us, saves us and justifies (makes righteous, just as if we had never sinned) us by His blood.. Romans 3:24, 5:1-2, & 9

[missmuffet]

 

So Christ is not enough to be saved? It is not enough to have faith in Jesus? Seems like scripture states otherwise. 

 

Ephesians 2

8 For by grace you are saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it isthe gift of God,

9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

 

Romans 10

9 Because if you confess the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved.

10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth oneconfesses unto salvation.

11 For the Scripture says, "Everyone believing on Him shall not be put to shame."

Getting in the WAY of Christ by being SAVED doesn't guarantee that a person will complete their sanctification/born again process. Whether a person completes the process of becoming holy and sanctified is upto the person's desires and faith. Not every person will desire to become a true son of God, so not every person will complete the process.

 

If a person is earnest about becoming entirely sanctifed (born again), than God will finish the process in them.

 

Yes,it is a matter of choice.Life is full of choices.Where does one want to spend eternity?In Heaven or hell?Not everyone who calls themself a child of God will get to Heaven.

 

Matthew 7:22Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ ²³ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

[OneWithGod]

I have found that the ones that will end up finishing the born again process are the ones that are going through the process for the correct reasons.

 

If a person is trying to escape hell and get to heaven as their reason, then they will fail and will end up loosing their life to death and evil.

 

But, if a person is going through the process to have as much GOoDness, righteousness, and love in their life, these will be the souls that will truly search out and find God filling their life with all these great qualities of God. These are the ones that will become the true sons of God. These are the ones that will desire to stop/repent from sinning to have God's goodness in their lives.

[Willa]

IN the above, what keeps one from being saved? It is the "practice" of such lifestyle, meaning to continue to live in them, not by committing them one or twice is weakness. You are placing a yoke upon people that is not there.

In the Greek, the work prassontes (G4238) is used, where the KJV turns it into "those which do such things", giving the spin that they mean even once. The Greek word means to perform repeatedly, not once. Here is what a Greek dictionary tells us about the word parassontes: To do, make , perform in general, expressing an action as continued or not yet completed, what one does repeatedly, continually, habitually. Here is the regular differentiation from the English dictionary:

practice

1.habitual or customary performance; operation: office practice.

2.habit; custom: It is not the practice here for men to wear long hair.

3.repeated performance or systematic exercise for the purpose of acquiring skill or proficiency: Practice makes perfect.

4.condition arrived at by experience or exercise: She refused to play the piano, because she was out of practice.

5.the action or process of performing or doing something: to put a scheme into practice; the shameful practices of a blackmailer.

You see, it is the continuing action, unwilling to change, that is the separating factor, not the once or twice weakness that we all go through. To say one must be sinless to be saved is not true. It is our hearts that God judges, more than our actions.

The newer versions (after 1950) have lightened up and corrupted God's Word. The work "Practice" is not in the older NT versions of God's Scriptures. This was added by the sinful reasoning of men that wrote these newer version of the bible.

If someone desires to go with these corrupted newer versions of the bible that are light on sin, then let it be so, for they are looking for all the excuses they can to keep sinning - to support their current lifestyles and to keep promoting the bondage of sin in other "Christians".

One, it is the KJV that corrupted God's Word in this case.

Greek has tenses that English does not have. This is how the tenses of 1John 1:7 are translated by Wuest's Expanded New Testament: "But if within the sphere of the light we are habitually ordering our behavior as He Himself is in the light, things in common thus fellowship we are having with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son continually keeps cleansing us from every sin." This is a very litteral translation which is wordy in our language so the King James translators may have thought they were clarifying it by shortening it and making it more poetic.. In fact they corrupted God's Word. They did not correctly translate the tenses to say everything it means. A good lexicon will tell you this. It is the present active indicative tense meaning it is still going on. So it is with sin. If it is continually, habitually practiced the person will be chastened. I believe if the person keeps struggling against it he will be forgiven.

But I do not consider my self to have attained. I still struggle with selfishness, for instance, and have for 50 years. If you think you have attained, God will give you someone who is impossible for you to love, a sin that you struggle with that is more subtle like spiritual pride, or you will sin in a manner that you thought that you were incapable of. God always brings us up short when we think we have attained in some area. God wants us to remain totally dependant on Him. I believe that is what Paul is talking about in Phillipeans 2. We are to press on to the goal till we die, to keep on doing good and not backslide by thinking we have achieved and are fully perfected. As long as we trust in Christ all our lives our bodies will be resurrected. Salvation is by faith, not by works, so no man can be prideful and boastful. I believe Paul had received Christ's imputed righteousness and believed his own to be dung. He had put on the new man and put off the old man, but was still prone to occasional sin such as the fight he had with Barnabus concerning Mark. Even Paul could be imperfect and sin. But he did not do it habitually.

I find no place in the Bible that says being born again is a process. That is a totally false doctrine unless you can prove otherwise beyond doubt. It is not the belief of this forum. Sanctification is a process that produces the fruit of the Spirit in our lives, and God continually changes us from glory to glory.

[OneWithGod]

 

 

.

The newer versions (after 1950) have lightened up and corrupted God's Word. The work "Practice" is not in the older NT versions of God's Scriptures. This was added by the sinful reasoning of men that wrote these newer version of the bible.

If someone desires to go with these corrupted newer versions of the bible that are light on sin, then let it be so, for they are looking for all the excuses they can to keep sinning - to support their current lifestyles and to keep promoting the bondage of sin in other "Christians".

 

One, it is the KJV that corrupted God's Word in this case. Greek has tenses that English does not have.

This is how the tenses of 1John 1:7 are translated by Wuest's Expanded New Testament: "But if within the sphere of the light we are habitually ordering our behavior as He Himself is in the light, things in common thus fellowship we are having with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son continually keeps cleansing us from every sin." This is a very litteral translation which is wordy in our language so the King James translators may have thought they were clarifying it by shortening it and making it more poetic.. In fact they corrupted God's Word. They did not correctly translate the tenses to say everything it means. A good lexicon will tell you this. It is the present active indicative tense meaning it is still going on. So it is with sin. If it is continually, habitually practiced the person will be chastened. I believe if the person keeps struggling against it he will be forgiven.

But I do not consider my self to have attained. I still struggle with selfishness, for instance, and have for 50 years. If you think you have attained, God will give you someone who is impossible for you to love, a sin that you struggle with that is more subtle like spiritual pride, or you will sin in a manner that you thought that you were incapable of. God always brings us up short when we think we have attained in some area. God wants us to remain totally dependant on Him. I believe that is what Paul is talking about in Phillipeans 2. We are to press on to the goal till we die, to keep on doing good and not backslide by thinking we have achieved and are fully perfected. As long as we trust in Christ all our lives our bodies will be resurrected. Salvation is by faith, not by works, so no man can be prideful and boastful. I believe Paul had received Christ's imputed righteousness and believed his own to be dung. He had put on the new man and put off the old man, but was still prone to occasional sin such as the fight he had with Barnabus concerning Mark. Even Paul could be imperfect and sin. But he did not do it habitually.

 

 

Since you believe the modern biblical lies that are promoted in the newer version bibles, which are light on sin, then we really have nothing more to discuss - Since you have a sinners theology and I have a holiness theology.

 

Edited August 31, 2013 by OneWithGod