It Is All A Process

[Willa]

Now you claim I have a sinners' theology because I rarely read KJV? Please pray about this and ask God if your attitude is godly.

Reread my posts to see if I am soft on sin in any way.. Am I willing to call sin what God has called sin? Do I research God's word to check the accuracy of the words used to translate? Do you? Do you check the veracity of your holiness theology against Scripture?

I am willing to change my theology if you can prove that being born again is a process. I do not find this in the statements of belief of this forum or in their statement as to what is a Christian. Nor can I find it in the Bible.

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God, as is confessed by this forum? Are you open to correction should your beliefs be contrary to Scripture? Please pray about these things before accusing me of having a sinner's theology. I wish to show you Godly love and grace, even though I don't agree with you.

1 John 1:8 NKJV If we say we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. Am I being soft on sin? I am agreeing with what God says is sin.

Please forgive me if I have been soft on sin, Lord, and please correct both of us where we are in error, and shed your light on your Word. Please open my eyes to Your truth where I am wrong. God, have mercy on me, a sinner. In Jesus Name, Amen.

[Elhanan]

I am willing to change my theology if you can prove that being born again is a process. I do not find this in the statements of belief of this forum or in their statement as to what is a Christian. Nor can I find it in the Bible.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but by your use of the term "born again" you're referring to salvation correct?  If so, salvation/born again is indeed a process.

 

While we have been saved in the past:

Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

 

Salvation is also a process which needs to be worked out:

Phil 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

 

We are presently receiving our salvation:

1 Pet 1:8-9 "Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy, for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls"

 

And in the future we shall receive our salvation:

Rom 5:9-10 "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. ¹⁰ For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

 

Rom 13:11 "And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed."

 

1 Cor 3:15 "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

 

1 Cor 5:5 " ... deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

Edited August 31, 2013 by Elhanan

[OneWithGod]

Now you claim I have a sinners' theology because I rarely read KJV? Please pray about this and ask God if your attitude is godly.

Reread my posts to see if I am soft on sin in any way.. Am I willing to call sin what God has called sin? Do I research God's word to check the accuracy of the words used to translate? Do you? Do you check the veracity of your holiness theology against Scripture?

I am willing to change my theology if you can prove that being born again is a process. I do not find this in the statements of belief of this forum or in their statement as to what is a Christian. Nor can I find it in the Bible.

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God, as is confessed by this forum? Are you open to correction should your beliefs be contrary to Scripture? Please pray about these things before accusing me of having a sinner's theology. I wish to show you Godly love and grace, even though I don't agree with you.

1 John 1:8 NKJV If we say we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. Am I being soft on sin? I am agreeing with what God says is sin.

Please forgive me if I have been soft on sin, Lord, and please correct both of us where we are in error, and shed your light on your Word. Please open my eyes to Your truth where I am wrong. God, have mercy on me, a sinner. In Jesus Name, Amen.

You are assumming things. I don't say you have a sinners theology because you rarely read the KJV, it is because you believe that everyone stays a sinner even after being born of God.

[OneLight]

I am addressing your stance that one who is saved must be perfect, not that they should/does not have to do works.

 

To be married to Christ, a person must be made perfect in His love. For Christ will not be unequally yoked with un-perfection.

The marriage of the Lamb and His bride, the church, has not yet happened. You are incorrect in using this as a defense of not sinning. We will not be sinless until we are with Him and He has forgiven us of all our sins. This cannot happen until we have died and He has found our name still in the Lambs Book of Life.

 

 

Tell me one thing, when you were first saved, was your faith and works as they are today? Were you immediately made mature with all understanding, perfect in all of Gods ways?

 

No, it took me 25 years to let God perfect me into a son of God. Then in the last 6-7 years Christ has perfected me even more like Him. - Glory to glory.

It seems scripture speaks against being perfect while still being in this life. Paul spoke one particular time about the difference in 1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known." It is possible to assume certain scripture is telling us that we cannot sin once we are born again, but that does go against scripture, for there are far more verses in scripture that instructs us to continue the good fight, to win the race, to carry our cross daily ... all this inferring that we do have the ability to sin when born again. There is nowhere in scripture that tells us that the old man is dead in us, just that our following the sin nature is no longer the reigning factor. We have been shown a better way.

 

 

Again, you place a yoke around your own neck, along with others, but trying to tell them that they need to be sinless, which is impossible to do, but what we strive to be.

 

Christ's yoke is light - for all the things Christ calls me to do is what I desire to do, which makes it easy. When a person has the nature/Spirit of Christ, they will naturally do the things of Christ.

You don't understand what I am saying. I am not questioning God, but man. For you to never sin is impossible while still living in this flesh. IF you were sinless, you would not be alive. You see, if being born again was the end all, there would be nothing more for God to instruct us in after the process of being born again was complete.

[Enoc]

What's a carnal Christian? 

[OneWithGod]

Tell me one thing, when you were first saved, was your faith and works as they are today? Were you immediately made mature with all understanding, perfect in all of Gods ways?

 

No, it took me 25 years to let God perfect me into a son of God. Then in the last 6-7 years Christ has perfected me even more like Him. - Glory to glory.

It seems scripture speaks against being perfect while still being in this life. Paul spoke one particular time about the difference in 1 Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known." It is possible to assume certain scripture is telling us that we cannot sin once we are born again, but that does go against scripture, for there are far more verses in scripture that instructs us to continue the good fight, to win the race, to carry our cross daily ... all this inferring that we do have the ability to sin when born again. There is nowhere in scripture that tells us that the old man is dead in us, just that our following the sin nature is no longer the reigning factor. We have been shown a better way.

 

Again, you place a yoke around your own neck, along with others, but trying to tell them that they need to be sinless, which is impossible to do, but what we strive to be.

 

Christ's yoke is light - for all the things Christ calls me to do is what I desire to do, which makes it easy. When a person has the nature/Spirit of Christ, they will naturally do the things of Christ.

 

You don't understand what I am saying. I am not questioning God, but man. For you to never sin is impossible while still living in this flesh. IF you were sinless, you would not be alive. You see, if being born again was the end all, there would be nothing more for God to instruct us in after the process of being born again was complete.

 

This is where you are very, very wrong. Christ came to overcome and clense all sin out of us through the work of His Grace and Holy Spirit.

 

I do live without committing any willful sins anymore. This is the power of Christ living in me. I am very much alive and righteous in Christ, because it is ALL Christ living in me.

 

Come to Christ and believe and be free from sin as Christ has promised - Free Indeed.

 

If you will not have faith in what Christ has come to do in you, which is to cleanse you of ALL sin, then you will never be cleansed of ALL sin, because of your lack of faith in Christ and His promises.

 

There is much more to do for the Lord and more power to do it all after being born of God then before being born of God. You probably just won't know about these things until you experience it for your self.

[Willa]

I am willing to change my theology if you can prove that being born again is a process. I do not find this in the statements of belief of this forum or in their statement as to what is a Christian. Nor can I find it in the Bible.

Correct me if I'm wrong but by your use of the term "born again" you're referring to salvation correct? If so, salvation/born again is indeed a process.

While we have been saved in the past:

Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

Salvation is also a process which needs to be worked out:

Phil 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

We are presently receiving our salvation:

1 Pet 1:8-9 "Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls"

And in the future we shall receive our salvation:

Rom 5:9-10 "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. ¹⁰ For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

Rom 13:11 "And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed."

1 Cor 3:15 "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1 Cor 5:5 " ... deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

I do not disagree with what you said about salvation.

But, I believe that being born again is NOT a process. Salvation is a process. Being born again is part of salvation but they are not synonomous. Born again is when we first receive and are sealed by the Holy Spirit and our names are written in the Lamb's book of life, which begins our salvation. Salvation culmunates with the redemption of our bodies when Jesus comes back for us. At that time we receive glorified bodies like His. Being delivered from sin is also a part of salvation. But we are only born again once to my knowledge. So I believe he is in error by thinking being born again is the same thing as salvation. It is only the beginning of salvation. I do not believe that we need to repeatedly be saved when ever we sin. We do need to repent, confess our sin and ask God to deliver us from unrighteousness to stay in fellowship with Him. 1 John 1: 8-9 To my knowledge we are only born again once. I am repeating what I have said in other posts on this topic.

[missmuffet]

 

Now you claim I have a sinners' theology because I rarely read KJV? Please pray about this and ask God if your attitude is godly.

Reread my posts to see if I am soft on sin in any way.. Am I willing to call sin what God has called sin? Do I research God's word to check the accuracy of the words used to translate? Do you? Do you check the veracity of your holiness theology against Scripture?

I am willing to change my theology if you can prove that being born again is a process. I do not find this in the statements of belief of this forum or in their statement as to what is a Christian. Nor can I find it in the Bible.

Do you believe in the Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, One God, as is confessed by this forum? Are you open to correction should your beliefs be contrary to Scripture? Please pray about these things before accusing me of having a sinner's theology. I wish to show you Godly love and grace, even though I don't agree with you.

1 John 1:8 NKJV If we say we have no sin we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. Am I being soft on sin? I am agreeing with what God says is sin.

Please forgive me if I have been soft on sin, Lord, and please correct both of us where we are in error, and shed your light on your Word. Please open my eyes to Your truth where I am wrong. God, have mercy on me, a sinner. In Jesus Name, Amen.

You are assumming things. I don't say you have a sinners theology because you rarely read the KJV, it is because you believe that everyone stays a sinner even after being born of God.

 

Are you saying that people who do not read the KJV Bible are sinners?

[missmuffet]

 

 

I am willing to change my theology if you can prove that being born again is a process. I do not find this in the statements of belief of this forum or in their statement as to what is a Christian. Nor can I find it in the Bible.

Correct me if I'm wrong but by your use of the term "born again" you're referring to salvation correct? If so, salvation/born again is indeed a process.

While we have been saved in the past:

Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,"

Salvation is also a process which needs to be worked out:

Phil 2:12 "Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling"

We are presently receiving our salvation:

1 Pet 1:8-9 "Though you have not seen him, you love him; and even though you do not see him now, you believe in him and are filled with an inexpressible and glorious joy,for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls"

And in the future we shall receive our salvation:

Rom 5:9-10 "Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. ¹⁰ For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life."

Rom 13:11 "And do this, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep; for now our salvation is nearer than when we first believed."

1 Cor 3:15 "If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

1 Cor 5:5 " ... deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus."

I do not disagree with what you said about salvation.

But, I believe that being born again is NOT a process. Salvation is a process. Being born again is part of salvation but they are not synonomous. Born again is when we first receive and are sealed by the Holy Spirit and our names are written in the Lamb's book of life, which begins our salvation. Salvation culmunates with the redemption of our bodies when Jesus comes back for us. At that time we receive glorified bodies like His. Being delivered from sin is also a part of salvation. But we are only born again once to my knowledge. So I believe he is in error by thinking being born again is the same thing as salvation. It is only the beginning of salvation. I do not believe that we need to repeatedly be saved when ever we sin. We do need to repent, confess our sin and ask God to deliver us from unrighteousness to stay in fellowship with Him. 1 John 1: 8-9 To my knowledge we are only born again once. I am repeating what I have said in other posts on this topic.

 

Yes,I will go with that.Salvation is a process.

[OneLight]

IN the above, what keeps one from being saved? It is the "practice" of such lifestyle, meaning to continue to live in them, not by committing them one or twice is weakness. You are placing a yoke upon people that is not there.

In the Greek, the work prassontes (G4238) is used, where the KJV turns it into "those which do such things", giving the spin that they mean even once. The Greek word means to perform repeatedly, not once. Here is what a Greek dictionary tells us about the word parassontes:

To do, make , perform in general, expressing an action as continued or not yet completed, what one does repeatedly, continually, habitually.

Here is the regular differentiation from the English dictionary:

practice

1.habitual or customary performance; operation: office practice.

2.habit; custom: It is not the practice here for men to wear long hair.

3.repeated performance or systematic exercise for the purpose of acquiring skill or proficiency: Practice makes perfect.

4.condition arrived at by experience or exercise: She refused to play the piano, because she was out of practice.

5.the action or process of performing or doing something: to put a scheme into practice; the shameful practices of a blackmailer.

You see, it is the continuing action, unwilling to change, that is the separating factor, not the once or twice weakness that we all go through. To say one must be sinless to be saved is not true. It is our hearts that God judges, more than our actions.

 

The newer versions (after 1950) have lightened up and corrupted God's Word. The word "Practice" is not in the older NT versions of God's Scriptures. This was added by the sinful reasoning of men that wrote these newer version of the bible.

 

If someone desires to go with these corrupted newer versions of the bible that are light on sin, then let it be so, for they are looking for all the excuses they can to keep sinning - to support their current lifestyles and to keep promoting the bondage of sin in other "Christians".

 

What I present is from a copy of the original Greek manuscripts, not from the bibles we have today. Yes, this is what was said so you can't hide behind the all so famous accusations about men corrupting the bible.

You would do yourself a huge favor if you studied using an Interlinear Bible where the Greek is show, along with a word for word translation in the exact format they spoke in.

Galatians 5:21 KJV

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Greek

phthonoi phonoi methai kOmoi kai ta homoia toutois ha prolrgO humin kathOs kai proeipon hoti hoi ta toiauta prassontes basileian theou ou klEronomEsousin

Word for word translation

ENVIES MURDERS DRUNKennesses REVELries AND THE LIKE to-these WHICH I-AM-BEFORE-sayING to-YOU according-AS AND I-BEFORE-said that THE-ones THE such PRACTISING KINGdom OF-God NOT SHALL-BE-tenantING