Can Witchcraft Succeed Against Christians?

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Heres another also

 

Psalm 109:18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.

 

No wonder James said to the double tongued man

 

James 3:10  Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

 

Because in blessing he would bless, and even Jesus said

 

Mark 15:18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

 

In Psalm 109 It shows that which come out of a man there (which clothed himself with cursing) entering back into the man

 

Which makes sense given the tongue is a world of iniquity among our own members and what proceedeth out of its little cubby hole is what it defileth the whole body

 

1Peter 3:9  Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

 

In that way we inherit a blessing.

 

The tongue has the power of life and death those who love it will eat the fruit thereof

 

The tongue is also a weapon being compared to a sword, or bow but I don't see how any weapon formed against us can prosper given greater is He that is within us then he who is in the world.

 

 

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Like Jesus said, Bless them that curse you. You overcome evil with good

[Sevenseas]

 

In Duet it shows those hiring against them Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse them. But then it continues, Nevertheless the LORD thy God would not hearken unto Balaam; but the LORD thy God turned the curse into a blessing unto thee, because the LORD thy God loved thee.

 

If God be for us who can be against us?

I am glad you brought this up, because here is the point I want to make.  The reason Balaam couldn't curse God's people is because there was no iniquity in them.  Had they been in sin, they would have been open to a curse.  When you read about the doctrine of Balaam, that is what it is speaking of.  If someone can seduce a Christian into sin, that person will immediately be susceptible to a spiritual attack.  It appears that Balaam gave this knowledge to Balak, and he used it against Israel? 

 

I agree with the things Sevenseas related.  People will use witchcraft to attack believers, so it is important to avoid getting caught up in sin.  If you do feel you are under a spiritual attack, call on the Lord, ask him to search your heart for any hidden sins, and ask his forgiveness.  Tell him you are under a spiritual attack and ask for his assistance.  If need be, take authority over the demonic spirits in the name of Jesus, and command them to return to the one that sent them to do unto them as they desired would happen to you.  God's power is higher than Satan's power, and it is certainly above the power of witches.  Plead the blood of Jesus.  The main thing is to keep your life clean.  That will make it much more difficult for people to cast spells on you. 

 

 

Yeah...I never used to believe that until it happened to me.  Sometimes you learn the hard way.  In our case, we had a family member who made the rest of us all vulnerable...but that's

another story.  

 

God is faithful...unfortuneatly, we need to understand the very BIG part, we, as believers play in that we need to keep a clean slate.  Doesn't mean we loose salvation, but it can make

our life on earth less than it should have been.

 

I think too many people believe God will simply overide any and all things...but that is not the outworking of sanctification.  Anyway, I probably don't need to say more.  

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Balaam says here this...

 

Numbers 22:18 I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.

 

And then here he says...

Numbers 23:20 Behold, I have received commandment to bless: and he hath blessed; and I cannot reverse it.

 

Whereas it also says in Numbers 24:9...  Blessed is he that blesseth thee, and cursed is he that curseth thee.

 

So if Balaam could not go beyond the word of the LORD to do any less or more having received the commandment to bless (whom the LORD Himself has actually blessed) he also said that he could not reverse it, which is inclusive of cursed is he that curseth thee.

 

And so wouldn't it have backfired (upon the one cursing) even as it shows simarly the same in the psalms?

 

Psalm 109:18 As he clothed himself with cursing like as with his garment, so let it come into his bowels like water, and like oil into his bones.

 

Because right there it shows cursed is he that clothes himself (with cursing). And what I mean by backfiring (is in the sense) of what went out of the mouth (in respects to cursing) is being shown as entering back into him

 

Mic 6:5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of the LORD.

 

Wouldn't that be to bless and do not curse (even as the same is shown in Balaam)?

 

I mean seriously he asks a logical question here

 

Numbers 23:8 How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom the LORD hath not defied?

 

In other words, what could Balaam really do? Curse those whom God has not cursed and bring the word of the LORD (concerning them) to nothing? And in his "cursing them" have his own counsel stand (against them) and defeat God's somehow? When that very same counsel had said, cursed is he that curseth thee? That is double edged there, and in the sense of blessed is he that bless thee and cursed is he that curseth thee. So how would Balaam get himself out of that twofold decree in doing so? Because it doesn't say cursed are thee by those powerful enough to curse thee , but cursed is he that actually curses thee. And if God be for us, who can be against us if His word and counsel stands? And if anything is meant for evil (anyway) God means it for good, because he works all things together for the good of them that love him and are called according to his purpose. The Philistine cursed David by his gods and David prevailed over him  because greater was He that was with Him then whatever gods the Philistine cursed David by anyway.

 

Hebrews shows here of what is nigh unto cursing

 

Heb 6:8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

 

Which is in contrast to that which receiveth the blessing of God in the previous verse

 

Though its interesting that speaking a lying divination is also shown in saying that the LORD himself had said something that He did not say. And they are shown there as those following their own spirit having seen nothing at all in Ezek 13:3 -9

[Sevenseas]

Are we talking about Balaam?  I don't think we are.  Should we take one Biblical example and make a doctrine out of it?  I don't think so.

 

The NT has quite a bit to say about being aware of the devil's schemes and protecting oneself...ie the spiritual armor..and that we should not give the devil any room

 

No one is promoting a devil that is stronger than God, but the Bible does not say no worries once you are saved either.

 

A balance is what is needed and people who have experience in dealing with such things, will never tell anyone 'don't worry...God has you covered.'  

 

God does have us covered, but not if we keep kicking the covers off.  

 

Even anger , unchecked, can give the devil a place in your life.  

 

Logic works great but not when it takes the place of spirtual discernment.   

 

 

 

Like Jesus said, Bless them that curse you. You overcome evil with good

 

 

That was not all that Jesus said.  He really had plenty more to say about the devil and casting out demons and we know that one of the signs of those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ,

is that they shall cast out demons.  Another spiritual gift is discerning of spirits.  The Bible has much more to say than a few simple words on the subject.  You cannot overcome a spiritual

attack (as Butero spoke of ) with good.  It takes discernment, prayer and faith and standing your ground in Christ.  It's not a simple matter.

 

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Eph 6: 12...

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Are we talking about Balaam?  I don't think we are.  Should we take one Biblical example and make a doctrine out of it?  I don't think so.

 

The NT has quite a bit to say about being aware of the devil's schemes and protecting oneself...ie the spiritual armor..and that we should not give the devil any room

 

No one is promoting a devil that is stronger than God, but the Bible does not say no worries once you are saved either.

 

A balance is what is needed and people who have experience in dealing with such things, will never tell anyone 'don't worry...God has you covered.'  

 

God does have us covered, but not if we keep kicking the covers off.  

 

Even anger , unchecked, can give the devil a place in your life.  

 

Logic works great but not when it takes the place of spirtual discernment.   

 

 

 

Like Jesus said, Bless them that curse you. You overcome evil with good

 

 

That was not all that Jesus said.  He really had plenty more to say about the devil and casting out demons and we know that one of the signs of those who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ,

is that they shall cast out demons.  Another spiritual gift is discerning of spirits.  The Bible has much more to say than a few simple words on the subject.  You cannot overcome a spiritual

attack (as Butero spoke of ) with good.  It takes discernment, prayer and faith and standing your ground in Christ.  It's not a simple matter.

 

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Eph 6: 12...

 

What doctrine are you speaking of when it comes to making a doctrine of Balaam? Psalms nor James nor Jesus words were about Balaam in either that post or the one prior.

 

The evil day is spoken of, and standing in it, Satan was sifting Job in the same way our Lord expressed to Simon that Satan had desired to sift Simon.

 

 Satan was about getting Job to curse God, not another man to curse Job. 

 

Even Jobs wife (her voice) toward Job mirrored Satan's temptation (in the touching of) Jobs flesh to that same effect. In other words, touch his flesh curse thee (God) to thy face (and Job being given into his hand) to touch his flesh (with sores) had his own wife (who is the flesh of his flesh) speaking the same , saying, Dost thou still hold fast to thine integrity? Curse God and die.

 

But we shouldnt fear what man can do to us, we already know he can kill the body (and can do no more) and tribulations are to be expected, as is the evil day.

 

God will not give us above that which we are able. It shows in Job at every point Satan desired to God defined the perimeters, thus far and no further, that God is in control.

 

Tribulation worketh the patience we are told to behold in Job. So if we have need of patience then we have need of the tribulation that actually works it.

 

For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

 

And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience

 

Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job

 

And so likewise we are told

 

My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;

 

Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

[Sevenseas]

Sorry ~  I'm not following your response.  The op would like to know if witchcraft can succeed against Christians.  That is what I am responding to.

 

I have no objections to your verses...but in fashion you are applying them in response to the op simply escapes me.

 

The Bible is clear that the devil can gain a foothold in the lives of believers.  

 

 

 

What doctrine are you speaking of when it comes to making a doctrine of Balaam? Psalms nor James nor Jesus words were about Balaam in either that post or the one prior.

 

 

I don't understand yr point.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

Sorry ~  I'm not following your response.  The op would like to know if witchcraft can succeed against Christians.  That is what I am responding to.

 

I have no objections to your verses...but in fashion you are applying them in response to the op simply escapes me.

 

The Bible is clear that the devil can gain a foothold in the lives of believers.  

 

 

 

What doctrine are you speaking of when it comes to making a doctrine of Balaam? Psalms nor James nor Jesus words were about Balaam in either that post or the one prior.

 

 

I don't understand yr point.

 

 

I am not following you either, I was just replying to the OP about putting curses on others and showing from the same in Balaam (who is actually under one of the words used for for witchcraft)

 

1Sam 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft , ^H7081 and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because thou hast rejected the word of the LORD, he hath also rejected thee from being king.

1. divination, witchcraft
   1. of the nations, Balaam
   2. of false prophets
   3. in a good sense (king's lips as oracles)

 And so I was using examples as found in him (per the topic). But I was also trying to show the same concept as used elsewhere when it come to cursing.

 

I didn't say anything about giving the devil a foothold or deny one cannot. We see Jobs wife inciting Job in accord with Satan's desires (for Job to do) which was to curse God.

 

So I am trying to add to the OP without endless wrangling with others on what they also are adding to it. You addressed me for whatever reason and are taking up an issue with me as using Balaam as a doctrine. What would you rather me quote for doctrine, the better homes and gardens magazine for this thread? I was tying in the Psalms, Jesus words, and James in respects to taking up cursing and showing elsewhere how clothing oneself in doing so shows it entering again (into the one doing the cursing).

[Sevenseas]

Endless wrangling?  I guess we are allowed to have differing thoughts on a subject?

 

Some of us are writing from personal experience...which, I believe is the concern of the op

 

I think we are not on the same page though

 

Thanks

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with me or even with the scripture for that matter.

 

I was just posting to the OP of my own accord some verses I was looking at and reasoning out of the same in respects to cursing and what they showed there and elsewhere without bringing you into anything.

 

You were the one who seemed to express some kind of problem on my end over what I was posting (which is fine) even though I am still not sure what that is about.

 

So I agree, we aren't on the same page, and when that happens I try to let it go verses wrangle over what the other persons problem is.