Is the Mark of the Beast and actual, physical mark?

[Micheal Westin]

Yes,I believe it is an actual physical mark.

what she said!

[Guest ninhao]

I believe the marks are actions and observances and parallel can be found with the Israelite worship of Yahweh by keeping God's commands.

 

 

Deu 6:1-8  Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:  (2)  That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.  (3)  Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.  (4)  Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:  (5)  And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.  (6)  And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:  (7)  And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.  (8)  And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
 

 

The beast covets worship due to Yahweh.

 

Rev_20:4  And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
 

Without identifying with the beast, through actions and observances,no one will be able to trade. Today we can see a similitude of this in masonry where actions ,symbols, and ordinances identify members and gain them priviledges imo. ( and whose god baal is cleverly disguised as gaotu )

[Guest man]

I cant make the spiritual mark work after the same as even Willlowood pointed out. And because those without the Spirit think the things of the Spirit are foolishness. These being natural (having the spirit of the world) not the Spirit of Christ. And if that be the case, they would judge by the sight of the eyes, whereas a spiritual mark doesn't make sense in the realm of no buying and selling without it.

 

If no one can buy or sell without it, then that is a determining factor (that they can recognize) so as to know (for themselves) who has it.

 

No one (yet) has made any sense on the buying and selling part (that I have ever read). Its typically overpassed and never addressed.

 

 

In countries where the majority of the population is muslim, how are christians identified? What distinguishes a christian from a muslim in a predominantly muslim neighborhood?

 

I believe world conditions at the time of the marking will be similar to those in the middle east today. Christians will stick out like a sore thumb. The beast will have control of the worlds finances and anyone who does not bow to him cannot buy or sell. 

 

I don't believe it's a physical mark because Satan knows who belongs to him. A true saint will appose anything and everything associated with the beast. I believe christians will be treated much like the Jews were in WWII. 

 

Another reason I don't believe it's physical is the numbers. The bible says "all" great and small. That's a lot of people. Consider the time it would take to physically mark every individual around the world. The cost would be enormous. 

 

The mark on the forehead is a sign of allegiance or worship toward the beast. It is a belief. The mark on the hand is demonstrating that allegiance through works. Or it could be a salute of some sort. Something works related.

 

The battles we fight are spiritual. Our spiritual enemy today will be the same enemy the saints will face in the future. Only on a larger and more violent scale. 

 

I believe the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark. 

[Guest ninhao]

 

The mark on the forehead is a sign of allegiance or worship toward the beast. It is a belief. The mark on the hand is demonstrating that allegiance through works. Or it could be a salute of some sort. Something works related.

 

The battles we fight are spiritual. Our spiritual enemy today will be the same enemy the saints will face in the future. Only on a larger and more violent scale. 

 

I believe the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark. 

 

 

A salute or handshake for a nod's as good as a wink.

 

Notice the symbol for Nth American Shriners. Remind you of something Islamic ?

 

[missmuffet]

 

I cant make the spiritual mark work after the same as even Willlowood pointed out. And because those without the Spirit think the things of the Spirit are foolishness. These being natural (having the spirit of the world) not the Spirit of Christ. And if that be the case, they would judge by the sight of the eyes, whereas a spiritual mark doesn't make sense in the realm of no buying and selling without it.

 

If no one can buy or sell without it, then that is a determining factor (that they can recognize) so as to know (for themselves) who has it.

 

No one (yet) has made any sense on the buying and selling part (that I have ever read). Its typically overpassed and never addressed.

 

 

In countries where the majority of the population is muslim, how are christians identified? What distinguishes a christian from a muslim in a predominantly muslim neighborhood?

 

I believe world conditions at the time of the marking will be similar to those in the middle east today. Christians will stick out like a sore thumb. The beast will have control of the worlds finances and anyone who does not bow to him cannot buy or sell. 

 

I don't believe it's a physical mark because Satan knows who belongs to him. A true saint will appose anything and everything associated with the beast. I believe christians will be treated much like the Jews were in WWII. 

 

Another reason I don't believe it's physical is the numbers. The bible says "all" great and small. That's a lot of people. Consider the time it would take to physically mark every individual around the world. The cost would be enormous. 

 

The mark on the forehead is a sign of allegiance or worship toward the beast. It is a belief. The mark on the hand is demonstrating that allegiance through works. Or it could be a salute of some sort. Something works related.

 

The battles we fight are spiritual. Our spiritual enemy today will be the same enemy the saints will face in the future. Only on a larger and more violent scale. 

 

I believe the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark. 

 

man, if it is not a physical mark then how do you explain the following passages?Revelation 14:9Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, ¹⁰ he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. ¹¹ And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 16:2So the first went and poured out his bowl upon the earth, and a foul and loathsome sore came upon the men who had the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image.

How spiritually are you receiving the mark?How can you spiritually receive the mark on your forehead or hand?

[OakWood]

Wow, it's all getting a bit head-spinny now.

 

A microchip or whatever other implant is still a physical mark, but I will never rule out a spiritual mark, I just think a physical one is more plausible, be it a permanent surgical mark (such as a tattoo or computer chip, or whether it's an insignia or clothing of some sort.

 

The buying and selling bit does fit in with Islamic philosophy. Dhimmis living under Islamic rule were often limited as to what they could buy and sell, and to the trades that they were allowed to participate in, but to limit all buying and selling simply sounds to me like Islam gone super-extreme, a likely scenario if the Beast has full control with no opposition.

 

Another theory is that Islam is not the religion of the Beast at all. This is plausible too. Satan always leaves a fingerprint. Any future Satanic religion will probably share some characteristics with Islam. Beheadings, servitude, contempt for women, encouraged persecution by the masses, total devotion to one figure - these are all hallmarks of Islam and therefore possibly hallmarks of Satan himself.

Whether or not Islam is the religion of the Beast, Islam will still have a major role to play in the End Times. Islam is still a devil to watch out for!

[Guest man]

Wow, it's all getting a bit head-spinny now.

 

A microchip or whatever other implant is still a physical mark, but I will never rule out a spiritual mark, I just think a physical one is more plausible, be it a permanent surgical mark (such as a tattoo or computer chip, or whether it's an insignia or clothing of some sort.

 

The buying and selling bit does fit in with Islamic philosophy. Dhimmis living under Islamic rule were often limited as to what they could buy and sell, and to the trades that they were allowed to participate in, but to limit all buying and selling simply sounds to me like Islam gone super-extreme, a likely scenario if the Beast has full control with no opposition.

 

Another theory is that Islam is not the religion of the Beast at all. This is plausible too. Satan always leaves a fingerprint. Any future Satanic religion will probably share some characteristics with Islam. Beheadings, servitude, contempt for women, encouraged persecution by the masses, total devotion to one figure - these are all hallmarks of Islam and therefore possibly hallmarks of Satan himself.

Whether or not Islam is the religion of the Beast, Islam will still have a major role to play in the End Times. Islam is still a devil to watch out for!

 

 

I think it's going to start out as some sort of twisted blend of Christianity and Islam. 

[missmuffet]

 I am not planning on being around for it.

[Guest AFlameOfFire]

 

I cant make the spiritual mark work after the same as even Willlowood pointed out. And because those without the Spirit think the things of the Spirit are foolishness. These being natural (having the spirit of the world) not the Spirit of Christ. And if that be the case, they would judge by the sight of the eyes, whereas a spiritual mark doesn't make sense in the realm of no buying and selling without it.

 

If no one can buy or sell without it, then that is a determining factor (that they can recognize) so as to know (for themselves) who has it.

 

No one (yet) has made any sense on the buying and selling part (that I have ever read). Its typically overpassed and never addressed.

 

 

In countries where the majority of the population is muslim, how are christians identified? What distinguishes a christian from a muslim in a predominantly muslim neighborhood?

 

I believe world conditions at the time of the marking will be similar to those in the middle east today. Christians will stick out like a sore thumb. The beast will have control of the worlds finances and anyone who does not bow to him cannot buy or sell. 

 

I don't believe it's a physical mark because Satan knows who belongs to him. A true saint will appose anything and everything associated with the beast. I believe christians will be treated much like the Jews were in WWII. 

 

Another reason I don't believe it's physical is the numbers. The bible says "all" great and small. That's a lot of people. Consider the time it would take to physically mark every individual around the world. The cost would be enormous. 

 

The mark on the forehead is a sign of allegiance or worship toward the beast. It is a belief. The mark on the hand is demonstrating that allegiance through works. Or it could be a salute of some sort. Something works related.

 

The battles we fight are spiritual. Our spiritual enemy today will be the same enemy the saints will face in the future. Only on a larger and more violent scale. 

 

I believe the mark of the beast is a spiritual mark. 

 

 

 

 

For example here

 

And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast

Saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast,

We know the world receiveth not the Spirit of Christ for the very reason that it "seeth him not". These things are done "in the sight of men" and "in the sight of the beast" and that which is told them, is that they should make an image to the beast. Something they could worship, and when "not worshipped" that they should be killed. To me, they must be able to determine (by sight) that you are not worshipping this image that you should be killed (for not doing so). They also must have something to determine whether you might buy or sell, I cant see how it could be spiritual when buying and selling is of mammon and commerse.  And if those without the Spirit of God be arranging this, and given they cannot even receive the Spirit of truth because "they seeth him not". Sight (on their part) seems a necessity by its nature. At least we  can see those things are done in the sight of men and in the sight of the beast.

Only because you don't need a mark to serve Satan,  Romans 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Satan is the devil, that old serpent, and the dragon (Rev 12:9)

And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

 

So there is both

But again, we don't need a mark to serve Satan,  because Paul says, in Romans 6:16

But the mark pertains to buying and selling in relation to the beast

And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

Even as we are to present our bodies a living sacrifice unto God

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

And Jesus said, ye cannot serve God and mammon. So what would be something we might give unto Caesar (which has his image on it) and with the same used to buy and sell be (spiritually so) doing in or on our bodies? which is Gods? Because no man might buy or sell save he had that, whether on his forehead or in his hand.

Jesus said, Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.

Jesus answering said unto them, Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's.

What are the things that are Gods?

What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So we are not our own, we are bought with a price, our bodies being the temple of the Holy Ghost. We render our bodies as a living sacrifice unto God. To whom we belong (and Who we are to serve) and obey. If not, aren't we already worshipping Satan already? So how would it be some spiritual (unseen) mark we give ourselves to in order for us to buy and sell? That has to do with mammon and commerse. Even in the context of the same, mammon typically has an image on it as Jesus likewise pointed out, He said render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars but again, unto God (what is Gods) which is our bodies. To be marked has everything to do with the whole buying and selling thing. I could show you the somersaults I have performed to make a spiritual mark work, because I tend to do that, to see the spiritual in a thing, I just couldnt pull it off. And I have not been convinced yet by some of those who advocate it with a couple of scriptures which don't have much to do with buying and selling.

But I am a professed fence sitter on this issue among others, but I am not easily convinced of things and I have heard far more convincing arguments, but they really fail to ever bring it home for me.

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[Guest man]

I could show you the somersaults I have performed to make a spiritual mark work, because I tend to do that, to see the spiritual in a thing, I just couldnt pull it off. And I have not been convinced yet by some of those who advocate it with a couple of scriptures which don't have much to do with buying and selling.

But I am a professed fence sitter on this issue among others, but I am not easily convinced of things and I have heard far more convincing arguments, but they really fail to ever bring it home for me.

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That's fine. Nothing's etched in stone.