Modesty

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I don't think the way the amish dress is anymore intrinsically, or less intrinsically 'pleasing to God' than the way any other young woman dresses per se... the issue is always of cultural norms and intentions. The amish girls dress that way because that's the norm in their community. To some they are revealing all too much. I don't think they are anymore intrinsically modest though than the young topless women fez described in their own communities.

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Just adding my take;

 

What is considered modest will vary from culture to culture. In Orthodox Judaism, wearing red is considered immodest. In others, dressing well is considered the norm. In some, it would be wrong to not wear some form of jewelry.

 

For 1 Tim 2, in that culture prostitutes braided their hair with gold. In other cultures during biblical times, pagan temple priestesses shaved their heads.

 

Amish dress in what they consider modest clothing, but in these modern times, they stand out tremendously.  Is it modest to dress so differently so as to stand out and attract attention?

 

I was thinking the same thing Q. Modesty will vary from culture to culture.

You bring up a good point about 1 Timm 2... Braided hair and shaved heads...

How would you answer this question in red? Curious.

 

If you see those with no clothes on in National Geographic it is because they live in the Jungle.That is the only why they know how to present themselves.No one sees them except creepy National Geographic photographers who want to capture the naked person living in the jungle.

 

 

 

Creepy?  Really?  Every N Geo photographer who happens to catch a person in the jungle sans clothes is creepy?  FYI, they are usually only naked from the waist up

 

So does that also mean that ALL artists, photographers and sculpters are also all creepy should they in some way render the human form as God intended?

 

After all, it was only AFTER the sin of disobedience that the occupants of the garden required clothes.

 

I think an awful lot of people might object to your rendition of creepy and that includes Christians who acknowledge and live by the admonition to dressing appropriately as a believer

 

I have seen many totally naked people of the jungle photographed in National Geographic.What is the point?That is like going to a naked beach fully clothed to gawk and take pictures of the naked.I do know people do this.I think that nudity in art should be avoided.Many of this world would not agree with me.

 

 

When I was in college, by my senior year, some of the remaining courses I needed were pretty generic. I decided to take a class on drawing. I have never taken an art class before, even in high school. (FYI - I discovered I am definitely not a gifted artist). I also tend to be shy, and much to my absolute shock, they did use live models. Both men and women, naked. What's worse, one male was a student trying to make some spending money, and I knew him. The other students in the class were mainly art majors. They knew the models, and would carry on everyday conversations with them while they stood there in the buff.

 

Well, after my face returned to a more normal color, and I actually started to draw, I became so involved in drawing to represent the human body on a 2 dimensional paper, that I stopped really seeing people, and started seeing them as subjects to draw, not actual living breathing naked people. There was nothing sensual about drawing the subject matter. To be a truly serious artist, the ability to understand how to draw a human body is a necessity.

 

But I have seen a Michelangelo sculpture. David is the most famous, and it is a true work of art.  

 

When dealing with art, a person who sees a masterpiece and sees pornography vs a person who sees the masterpiece and sees a masterpiece of astounding work, is truthfully, a reflection of the state of the persons mind. And/or culture.

 

This is an interesting point-- makes a lot of sense to me. One concern I have is a lot of overemphasis on 'covering up' for the sake of covering up might lead to a state of mind that interprets any nakedness, even if it is in a masterpiece, as pornographic, and that strikes me as sad.

[nebula]

I had a teacher at a Christian college tell us of a mission trip to Africa he went on. One day in church, a native woman in native garb stood in front of the congregation reading Scripture. Note that native garb was a long skirt covering the legs down to the feet, and that's it. Needless to say, this was difficult on the instructor and the men with him.

 

Afterwards, one of the native men explained to them (Americans) that this is how they (the African men) feel when "your" women come to church wearing skirts and dresses that exposed their legs (short, mid-thigh, knee-length, calf-length).

 

Food for thought.

[LadyKay]

 

When dealing with art, a person who sees a masterpiece and sees pornography vs a person who sees the masterpiece and sees a masterpiece of astounding work, is truthfully, a reflection of the state of the persons mind. And/or culture.

:clap:

[NeedYouLord]

Greetings in Love,

Amen to the above...and when I truly got close to God-drawing near...He straightened out my modesty factor...and set me free-I mean really free...Does that mean I walk around naked now? Does that mean I think it's ok to walk around naked right now in front of everybody? No...but I am in no way, any more, ashamed of my body and I'm in no way trying to have sex either by showing it...been set free from that too...Yeah...

 

I think this point was brought up earlier...about how we can't help it if others lust...we can't...In the very beginning of my spiritual journey...I found out just how attractive it is to be reborn...it is...it's like that is what attracts people to people that have God...My my..but anyway I didn't understand all that at the time...It was like overload with the guys...so God gave me a dream because I was also hearing sermons about lust etc. and my my...I didn't want to have anything to do with causing that...so God showed me in a dream...The Truth...at least for me it was God's Truth for me...I was at the top of a tree...had been treed by hundreds of "wolves"  and these "wolves" were not Godly men after me...they were the ones full of "lust" and not true "love"...so I got to grow up a little after that dream...it's amazing the journey God takes us on...He is powerful and wonderful...

[Sevenseas]

 

 

 

 

 

Just adding my take;

 

What is considered modest will vary from culture to culture. In Orthodox Judaism, wearing red is considered immodest. In others, dressing well is considered the norm. In some, it would be wrong to not wear some form of jewelry.

 

For 1 Tim 2, in that culture prostitutes braided their hair with gold. In other cultures during biblical times, pagan temple priestesses shaved their heads.

 

Amish dress in what they consider modest clothing, but in these modern times, they stand out tremendously.  Is it modest to dress so differently so as to stand out and attract attention?

 

I was thinking the same thing Q. Modesty will vary from culture to culture.

You bring up a good point about 1 Timm 2... Braided hair and shaved heads...

How would you answer this question in red? Curious.

 

If you see those with no clothes on in National Geographic it is because they live in the Jungle.That is the only why they know how to present themselves.No one sees them except creepy National Geographic photographers who want to capture the naked person living in the jungle.

 

 

 

Creepy?  Really?  Every N Geo photographer who happens to catch a person in the jungle sans clothes is creepy?  FYI, they are usually only naked from the waist up

 

So does that also mean that ALL artists, photographers and sculpters are also all creepy should they in some way render the human form as God intended?

 

After all, it was only AFTER the sin of disobedience that the occupants of the garden required clothes.

 

I think an awful lot of people might object to your rendition of creepy and that includes Christians who acknowledge and live by the admonition to dressing appropriately as a believer

 

I have seen many totally naked people of the jungle photographed in National Geographic.What is the point?That is like going to a naked beach fully clothed to gawk and take pictures of the naked.I do know people do this.I think that nudity in art should be avoided.Many of this world would not agree with me.

 

 

The point is simply to record things as they are.  That's part of what National Geo does.  Frankly, if you want to be concerned with the nude portrayl of human beings, there are publications

that are actually designed to titillate.

 

But again, if you consider anyone reproducing the body in it's natural state as creepy, then I guess we will never agree on what is and what is not creepy or voyeuristic

[Sevenseas]

 

Could we refrain from cutting others down?

 

Yes, the Amish stand out to us, but they do not dress as they do to attract attention to themselves or to their bodies. There's a huge difference between someone dressing their culture and someone trying to make a show out of themselves.

 

Immodesty implies drawing sensual attention to yourself.

 

 

National Geographic are not pushing porn; they are showing a culture, and they mostly try to not expose private parts when taking pictures of such tribes.

If you are referring to me cutting others down nebula would you please tell me how I am doing that?

Their is a difference in the Amish because they dress in a way that is pleasing to God.Isn't that the way all Christians should dress?

I have read many,many National Geographic magazines and have seen many totally naked bodies.It is their culture.Leave them alone.If a magazine finds them interesting then leave out the totally naked pictures.I am sure their is another way to portray the tribes with their permission without disrespecting their bodies.

 

 

 

Who says this is pleasing to God?  That is a rather big assumption.  The Amish are not an example I would care to follow quite frankly.  Really, they are not.

 

I think you have a very definitive set of what you consider to be God's approval re how we dress, but I do not see that implied in Scripture.

 

Modesty is not a certain uniform or some culture that idealizes following a dress code.  Modesty must exist within the heart...a dress to the ground can be hiding an individual

with a bent towards adultery.  

 

See what I mean?

[Jean74]

We need to dress in a manner that is appropriate. Really in the eyes of God. As that is what counts the most! As we need to ask ourselves, What Jesus would do?

 

On a lighter note, I don't have the body of a model. So there!

[WIP]

 

From my perspective the Amish attire is not modest. It stands out and attracts attention.

 

The attention that this attire would attract would not be one of lust.

This truly has to do with the indivisible person. Who is to say what it is that one person finds "sexy".(I like men in kilts woooooo)  All any of us can do is dress the way that we think would please God. I personally can not stop someone from thinking lusty thoughts about me if they allow themselves to do so. I believe I spoke on this before with my story about how guys were yelling "hey baby" and other things out of the car windows as I walked by wearing a pair of sweat pants and a t-shirt. (hardly sexy) I think that everyone is responsible for their own feelings of lust; and they can not put the blame on someone else regardless of what a person is wearing. I feel that how one dresses has much to do with the activity they are doing. What I mean is, I feel it is perfectly fine and acceptable for a person to walk around in a bathing suit if they are by the pool or on the beach or even in their own yard sunbathing. But it would be consider unacceptable to dress in a bathing suit while eating at a nice restaurant or to go grocery shopping. So in other words, I think there is a difference between dressing to look attractive and dressing to look like you are looking for sex. You know that wearing a see through night gown to a social gathering with men being there is going to say "hey I am looking for sex". But if you dress in a way that is simply to attract the attention of men your saying " I look nice but I want to get to know your before showing you the whole package." Does any of this makes sense?

 

 

I have seen some women wearing jeans and a t-shirt which is immodest because both jeans and t-shirt are skin tight leaving nothing to the imagination. Bottom is that we Christian women know in our hearts what is and is'nt modest.... The Lord knows the motives of our hearts. We are responsible for our own actions....we will not be giving an account for what others do.

[Willa]

Our pastor spoke on the subjest just once in 10 years, and he mentioned clothing that draws attention to ourselves. We do have a lot of Amish people as well as German Baptists (dunkers) who also dress quaintly. But they held fast to their convictions. I have to admit that the glow and quiet kindness in the lady's face is what attracts me to her.

However, women are wearing "skinny pants" now that are more than skin tight, and a lot of the older women are not attractive in them with the added pounds. Some fashions look better on pre teens. While these people are a minority, they do grab your attention. I do doubt that they are saved, but they still make me uncomfortable..

I have known people who purposely like to offend Christians. One such person who even called herself a Christian that I worked with used to beg to go to church with me. So I explained that we normally wore jeans and loose clothing like we wear to work, and don't get dressed up. So she purposely wore a dressy low cut dress that showed off ALL her tatoos and nearly everything else. She seemed disappointed that no one commented about the way she looked. At work she often would wait till I was in earshot and then speak very loudly, using filthy obscenities, so I would just keep walking. She also did that in front of parents and told them dirty jokes. When I didn't laugh but just didn't pay much attention she would ask me about it. I would matter of factly say I just didn't think it was funny. Then she would get angry. She chose to work with me for a second year. I was OK with it till she started purposely trying to make my life miserable and spread false rumors or half truths about me so that few others wanted to work with me. Those who did checked out the stories with other people first.

So now when I see people dressing inappropriately I wonder why they are trying to offend us and get attenion. Then I wonder what they are trying to accomplish by it and why they are so angry. Why are they trying to cause Christians to stumble. Perhaps they are under convictioon???