Not under the law

[salt and light]

As christians, we are not under the law, but because we are christians, we should live above the law with the help of the Holy Spirit. As a christian, I obey the ten commandments BECAUSE I'm saved, and not to get saved. We as christians, are under grace, for we are saved by grace through faith, and it is by God's grace that I am able to obey the law.

[Guest shiloh357]

As christians, we are not under the law, but because we are christians, we should live above the law with the help of the Holy Spirit. As a christian, I obey the ten commandments BECAUSE I'm saved, and not to get saved. We as christians, are under grace, for we are saved by grace through faith, and it is by God's grace that I am able to obey the law.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

AMEN!!

[Guest shiloh357]

borntorebel,

I can't deny however, as you do, that the writers of the NT, as well as Jesus, clearly teach us to not go back to that from which Christ delivered us.

We are delivered from sin, not from the Torah. We were not in bondage to the Torah. The Torah shows that we are in bondage to sin and are unable to do anything about it. The Torah points us to the Messiah who delivers from sin.

The Torah in Scripture is never a source of bondage, but a result of being set free.

The Children of Israel were set free from bondage and as a consequence were given the Torah, to understand how to live in that freedom. The Torah teaches what is pleasing to God. The commandments of God are not a form of bondage.

Trying to say that we are delivered from the commandments that teach us to how to love God with our heart, soul and strength, and teach us how to love our neighbor, is just nonsense. We are saved to keep God's commandments, we are not saved from them.

[nebula]

Hey, Rebel -

It really saddens me that you keep insisting on resorting to tacky accusations in order to give yourself the belief that you are God's spokesman.

I never said I follow the Old Testament Law.

Seriously, I am too swamped with school right now to spend any more time debating. This isn't a cop-out - this is loads of work.

Really, though -

I didn't want to comment on your attack of me and my integrity because I see you as being guilty of the very thing you are accusing me of - reading out of Scripture what you want it to say and not what it really says - and reading from what I am saying what you believe me to be saying and not what I am really saying.

I was attempting to avoid the temptation of to respond to you in kind.

It's no good acting like grade-school children:

"Are not!

"Are too!"

But to keep claiming that God lacked in mercy and grace during the OT era is very, very tacky.

God requires no less faith - and evidence of faith - from us now as He did then.

The price was too high for us to get a "free ride to Heaven."

Read the parable of the Sheep and the Goats if you don't believe me.

Good day, sir!

Edited December 6, 2004 by nebula

[Guest yod]

The sacrifices, the festivals, and all other points of the Torah had no salvific effect.

Hey man,

have you ever read Louis Goldberg's commentaries on Leviticus and Deuteronomy? WOW!

How can those who don't know what is in the Torah say it's irrelevant? How can we understand the very foundation of everything Yeshua said without the context in which HE said it?

[Guest shiloh357]

The sacrifices, the festivals, and all other points of the Torah had no salvific effect.

Hey man,

have you ever read Louis Goldberg's commentaries on Leviticus and Deuteronomy? WOW!

How can those who don't know what is in the Torah say it's irrelevant? How can we understand the very foundation of everything Yeshua said without the context in which HE said it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly! The NT is written as if you already understand the OT.

I have read part of Golberg's commentary on Leviticus. He was an excellent commenator. If I recall it was part of the "Lamplighter" series of commentaries. I wish Goldberg had written a complete Messianic Torah commentary. He was definitely anointed in that area.

[Guest evangelina]

Colossians,

You are a hero in my eyes after reading this whole ten page thread.

I think alot like you, and it just amazed me that you get all the same exact replies back to you that I do where ever I go too.

What nobody seems to realize after all these posts is that, ...Jesus is our all in all. Nothing, not even torah is above him and his teachings. It is like comparing him God and the Temple, or God and the tablets......who is greater? Why is it so hard for some to understand that? So if some choose to follow Jesus and some choose to follow the law wo is following the greater one?How can one go wrong following after the greater one?

Whatever came out of Jesus mouth were the most important words God has ever spoken, and is above all the other words, all over the Bible. If it's in red, it's greater than the rest (red meaning, they are the very words of Jesus).

Colossians, my prayers and blessings are with you! I pasted most of your replies over at my own board. Only because like minded believers are so hard to come by.

evangelina

If you ever have time, please visit me over at http://wisdomfromabove.proboards30.com/index.cgi

[nebula]

What nobody seems to realize after all these posts is that, ...Jesus is our all in all. Nothing, not even torah is above him and his teachings. It is like comparing him God and the Temple, or God and the tablets......who is greater? Why is it so hard for some to understand that? So if some choose to follow Jesus and some choose to follow the law wo is following the greater one?How can one go wrong following after the greater one?

Boy, are you ever misunderstanding what we have been saying.

Whatever came out of Jesus mouth were the most important words God has ever spoken, and is above all the other words, all over the Bible. If it's in red, it's greater than the rest (red meaning, they are the very words of Jesus).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The words spoken by Jesus are greater than the words spoken by the Holy Spirit?

HUH?

How does this fit in with "The LORD is One"?

[Sola Scriptora]

looks like Colossians took his pummeling and left. What happened to his skilled debating? I was grandstanding this thread to "see what happens". Colossians was TKO'D.

[dgolvach]

The great thing about the internet is you can have the arguments that you can't have at church. At church you have to sit and mingle eye to eye. My denomination dosen't believe in OSAS. (Their wrong) I don't think debating about scripture is such a bad thing always. It makes us actually open the Bible.

God Bless

Dan