Not under the law

[Guest Colossians]

9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person,

As if I hadn't quoted this in the OP. Now think about the ramifications of it.

that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us

The correct rendering is "the righteousness of the law".

The righteousness of the law is not the law itself.

It is Christ.

"The law is not of faith" Gal 3:12.

[tsth]

The law is still valid and has purpose Colossians.  If you tell others that it is not, you are misguiding them.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully, 9 knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine, 11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust.

It will bring one back to "sound" doctrine, if there is something contrary to it.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us

This is where the freedom comes in Colossians. Just as I have not the fear of going to prison for murder and being locked up. It is not in me, for Christ lives within me. His Holy Spirit is now guiding me, BUT, it does not mean that the Law does not exist!!!

Read the verses in the previous post again.

The Law still has purpose, it is just not going to be our condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Guest Colossians]

that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us

The correct rendering is "the righteousness of the law".

The righteousness of the law is not the law itself. It is Christ.

The Law still has purpose, it is just not going to be our condemnation if we are walking in the Spirit.

If we are walking in the Spirit, we do not need the law.

"that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter".

[Guest Colossians]

1 John 5:3This is love for God: to obey his commands.

What commands? (Read on.)

And his commands are not burdensome, 4for everyone born of God overcomes the world.

Commands which overcome the world. Yes but what commands?

This is the victory that has overcome the world, even our faith.

Ah! The command to have faith! But faith in what?

5Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.

Ah! Faith in Christ!

So His commands are to have faith in Christ!

So that's why 1 John 3:23 says the following!: "this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus"

So then, the 10 commandments are excluded from the picture. Which is why Jesus said "MY commandments", and not "THE commandments".

Edited November 30, 2004 by Colossians

[George]

Hello Colossians,

I agree with you in the sense that JESUS is the fulfillment of the LAW, but this does not mean that we become "LAWLESS"! I beg to differ with you my friend, it means that we follow a DEEPER LAW! For example, it was a whole lot easier to say -- Don't commit adultery -- then Jesus saying -- IF you even LOOK at a person to LUST for them you have ALREADY committed ADULTERY in your heart! The law says don't commit murder -- Jesus said -- if you even have ANGER in your heart you are in danger of hellfire.

You see it's not that as believers we are LAWLESS, but rather we follow a DEEPER LAW because the Holy Spirit is now written HIS LAW upon our hearts! It's no longer an "outward" observance of the law which is so much easier to follow -- NO it's a deeper law -- it's the INTERNAL observance of the law and we have been given the power to follow HIM by his Spirit.

The Law of LOVE is the core essence of the LAW! LOVE your neighbor as yourself and LOVE the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul!

Heb 5:9; 12-14 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

As you mature in the faith, the Spirit of God will guide you into all truth! Remember you have to balance EVERY word of God and recognize we don't live as LAWLESS people -- but rather we live under the LAW placed into our heart by the Spirit of God.

Remember that in Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

The word iniquity could easily be translated 'lawlessness'.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[Guest Colossians]

I agree with you in the sense that JESUS is the fulfillment of the LAW, but this does not mean that we become "LAWLESS"!

To be lawless, means to break the law. One cannot break the law if one is not under it. Therefore your point is moot.

I beg to differ with you my friend, it means that we follow a DEEPER LAW! For example, it was a whole lot easier to say -- Don't commit adultery -- then Jesus saying -- IF you even LOOK at a person to LUST for them you have ALREADY committed ADULTERY in your heart! The law says don't commit murder -- Jesus said -- if you even have ANGER in your heart you are in danger of hellfire.

Jesus was here propounding the guilt of the supposed law keepers. He was not instituting a law for the church.

The fact remains, we are not under the law anymore once we come to Christ.

You see it's not that as believers we are LAWLESS, but rather we follow a DEEPER LAW because the Holy Spirit is now written HIS LAW upon our hearts!

The law is written on every person's heart, regardless of regeneration. Rom 2 tell us unregenerate Gentiles have the law on their hearts. So the prophecy of Jeremiah does not refer to the OT law, but another, for there is no point writing the same law twice on the heart.

Jeremiah uses the law as a type for Christ.

It's no longer an "outward" observance of the law which is so much easier to follow -- NO it's a deeper law -- it's the INTERNAL observance of the law and we have been given the power to follow HIM by his Spirit.

The Spirit does not follow the law. For He is above it.

Therefore to follow the Spirit is to ignore the law.

The whole idea of faith is not 'faith to obey the law' but 'faith to ignore the law, and look only at Christ'.

The Law of LOVE is the core essence of the LAW!

The 'law of love' is not a law in the sense of law: it is a notional law.

The OT law involved penalty, and therefore cannot be associated with the law of love.

All law has penalty. That is how we know it is law.

[George]

Matthew 22:36-39 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Your brother in Christ with much agape love,

George

[OneAccord]

Hi Colossians:

Interesting thread!!!!!!!!! I understand what you are trying to say, sort of, but I don't get what is your point? Are you trying to make a case against 'legalism'?

Also, when a person is nop longer under the law, but above it as they walk in the Spirit of Jesus, how should they be living? What should a Christians walking above the law look like in their manner of living?

[Trinity]

No, our salvation has nothing to do with the Law anymore, we are still to obey what God says.

[Yahsway]

I want to tell you all a short true story. This happened about 5 years ago. A friend of mines brother, lived liked the devil so to speak, caught up in all kinds of immorality and sins. Just like I was before I became born again.

Okay, now he goes to church one Sunday, hears the word and asked Yeshua to be his savior. My friend was so happy that her brother was now counted among the believers.

It wasnt too long after his salvation, that he started to live the same life he lived before. When confronted with his lifestyle by his sister, his response was he was not under the law, but under Christ and his grace. Once saved he said, always saved, no longer to be plucked out of Gods hands.

And he continually refused her rebuke citing those 10 commandments, those morale laws were done away with. He still loved God, God loved Him, and love was all that mattered.

The verse in the scriptures that says in that day those will say Lord Lord look what we did in your name and so forth, and Yeshua says depart from me you who work iniquity which does mean (you who work lawlessness) I never knew you.

Gods 10 commandments are now written on our hearts. Not done away with, but now we KNOW of them. I did not know them before I was saved. I did not know I was in or under bondage to the laws of God before I knew Him. But when I was saved, that did not make the laws go away, they were written upon my heart. I know them now, my spirit agrees with them. I know they are from a loving, rightous and just God.

God never put any man under bondage. Now I will say that i am now a bondservent of Yeshuas. Because I want to be, not because I have to be. Thats the spirit of the law.

And yes Yeshua did keep all of Gods laws perfectly, even the Sabbath. Had he not, he would not have been the perfect, spotless lamb of God. The religous leaders of Yeshuas day had added so much to Gods origonal laws. These were man made doctrines and laws, not the origonal way in which God meant for His laws to be kept.

Again I will say, the 10 commandments were never meant for salvation. They were Gods laws set down in stone to show the people how to live with Him and each other. If you obeyed you had blessings, if you disobeyed, you would have curses.

And no Colossians, heaven and earth are still here, Heaven is a REAL place and earth is a REAL place. Not everything is Spiritual. God is Spirit though and we must worship Him in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. Yeshua has a new glorified BODY, just like we will have one day. When he appeared to his disciples after the resurecction He sat and ate with them and Thomas even toched Him. He was not a spirit.

But he did not leave us without hope for He sent the Holy Spirit to us to guide and direct us. No one here is advocating that we must keep all the 10 commandments to be justified and saved. NO NO. But by our faith in Yeshua, our bridegroom, we as the bride would surely want to know what pleases Him just as any bride here on earth would want to know what pleases her husband.

If you love Him, you will WANT to keep His commandments, not throw them away.

You are right. The difference is love. If we LOVE HIM, then we will want to all that He has spoken.

You said that one cannot break the law unless one is under it! When does one become under it then? Are they under it before they are saved and do not know that they are under it? And once they are shown that they are living under it, what then? If It is the school master to bring them to Messiah, then what. Do you then say Glory Hallaluyah, now go your way and sin no more or Glory to God now you are not under that which you did not know you were under in the first place? Makes no since to me.

Or do you believe the 10 commandments were nailed to the cross and done away with there? If thats the case then everyone is saved already. Right?

Ill never understand how some people can obey the laws of men and the land but do not want to obey Gods laws. Im praying for you Colossians. The laws of this land are changing. Many here want the 10 commandments out of everything, schools, public buildings ect. Some just want to follow their own ways instead of Gods ways.

One more thing, God and Yeshua are definately condtional. God may "LOVE" us unconditonal, but he does say "If my people will do this or that. Yeshua says "IF you love me then keep my commandments". Its not enough to just say I love Him and He loves me. There must be fruit and right actions. Agreed? If you love Him, then you would do anything He says to do, whether you liked it or not. Obediance is better than sacrafice.