Not under the law

[Guest shiloh357]

My point was that anytime grace is mentioned in the OT, it was due to what was being done by the person. It was something earned, not given freely. Now, there may be instances of "unmerited favor" in the OT, but it wasn't the way God worked with His people. It was an "earning" belief system, not a "grace driven" belief system.

The OT is all about earning what you redceive from God. The belief system was based on works, not a free gift.

That is a common Christian misunderstanding about the OT. Christians make the mistake of thinking that people in the OT were saved by works, and we are saved by grace through faith. You clearly do not understand the OT, or the purpose of the Torah. The OT is viewed by many Christians as a failed system, and it wasn't. It did EXACTLY what God created it to do. The Torah, the sacrifices, festivals did not save anyone because they were not designed to. The festivals are memorials that serve as prophecies of the Messiah. The sacrifices did not constitute a means of salvation. Rather they pointed to the coming of the final sacrifice, Messiah Yeshua/Jesus. God did not expect anyone to put faith in the sacrifices but rather to put faith in the coming Messiah the sacrifices pointed to.

Salvation was by grace through faith in the OT. The Torah was a sign post pointing to the Messiah. In fact the Torah was really a set of pictures, if you will. They were pictures of Jesus.

The OT was not a works based salvation system. The Torah could not save anyone and the book of Hebrews makes it clear. The sacrifices, the festivals, and all other points of the Torah had no salvific effect.

It is true, that there were those who perverted the Torah into a works-based salvation system but nowhere was anyone declared righteous or justified based upon the Torah. It was always by faith, even in the OT.

The children of Israel were saved from Egypt (sin) BEFORE they received the Torah at Sinai. Abraham was justified 25 years BEFORE circumcision. All of the pictures contained in the Torah were pictures of salvation by grace through faith in the Messiah.

Nowhere did God save ANYONE on the basis of the merit of works.

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357 says,

When you actually READ the story, Paul is performed the vow for the sake of the believing Jewish community which was zealous for the Torah and were alarmed at rumors stating that Paul was teaching that they should not walk after the customs or circumcize (the same lie that is told about him today).

[tsth]

Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God.

34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[JewishHeart]

The Law of Christ or Torah of Messiah? - by Sean Steckbeck

The first thing we must establish here is that the law of Messiah isn't something new within the New Covenant. As a matter of fact, Messiahology should always start and end within the parameters of the Old Covenant. We should try to draw a thin sketch of the Messiah and his role within the Old Covenant and interpret the New Coveant accordingly. (I believe 100 percent in all the New Covenant) If the New Covenant picture (or should I say if "our" picture) of the role of Messiah does not match 100 percent the role of the OT picture of Messiah... the New is a farse or a fake (or how we perceive Messiah).

I see the "law of Christ" consisting of four things (precedented by the OT).

1.) The Holy Spirit within us teaching us all things.

2.) The teachings of Yeshua as the heart of Torah.

3.) The system of Justice established by Messiah's earthly rule when the Torah will go to all nations. ( I will establish this in my article " Justice and the Torah")

4.) Forgiveness of Sins by Yeshua's sacrafice and Intimacy, Obedience, and Worship towards the Father.

May I add that Paul said " The Law of Christ"... let us rearrange the transliteration here and say " the law of Messiah." What is " Messiah" or "Christ"... that which Yeshua fulfilled this role. First of all, it means "anointed one." As my good friend Asher Intrater points out, that to be the Messiah "Mashiach" you have to be "Mashuach" or anointed, and "Moshayach" or an anointer. So we see first of all that the word Messiah is directly applied to someone who has supernatural leadership and gives supernatural leadership... this is the first step of "Messiahology" or "Christology." Both the word christian (Greek) and messianic (Hebrew) means those who are anointed supernatural leaders in the literal... in the transliteral it means followers of Messiah. Like Mashiach means Messiah in the transliteral and Mashiach means anointed one in the literal. Or like Yeshua means Joshua (English) or Jesus (Greek) in the transliteral and "salvation" in the literal.

Taking all this in mind, the first law of Messiah (or Christ) is :

1.) You have the Spirit of G-d on you and lead and are led by it.

What are we there to be led by?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law (Torah in Hebrew) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Here we see a precedent of Messiah's New Covenant:

1.) The Torah on Our Hearts

2.) Intimacy with the Father

3.) Forgiveness of Sins

Torah, the word used in this passage, means "instruction." It refers to the writings of Moses. So we can translate this... " I will put the law of Moses in their hearts."

David said ,

Psa 119:11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

So we see a precedent here of Yeshua bringing the Torah of Moses into people's hearts. How does he do this? First of all it starts with a promise.

Exo 25:8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them.

In the Hebrew it is transliterated : Asu Li Mkdash vshakanti bitucham.

Literally: Make me a temple and I will dwell my presence inside of them.

The English KJV translates a little off here (it helps to know Hebrew fluently).

This is the promise G-d gave, along with Jer 31:31 of the Living Torah, the breathe of life, the Holy Spirit being inside of us.

The law of Messiah is thus fulfilled as Matthew 28's Great Commission by Isaiah 2's promise of the Torah going from Jerusalem and the word of the L-rd from Zion at Messiah's great coming.

So we are commissioned as those with supernatural leadership to heal the sick (Isaiah 61) and bring favor unto Zion (supporting Israel)... like Messiah did.

There is much more and it is too deep to discuss all the OT picture of Messiah in one day's writings... but here is just a tidbit. The OT picture of Messiah defines the "law of Christ."

Remember also that the millenial law of Christ will even include temple sacrafice (try to figure the Ezekiel 37-48 chapters) and levitical responsibilities.

In the end, Paul never said " the law of Yeshua" referring only specifically to Messiah Yeshua's teachings... but rather he said " the law of christ" or "Torah of Messiah" which has rich precedents in Yeshua's teachings and the OT picture of Messiah as the giver of Torah. The OT picture of Messiah doesn't include all of Moshe's Torah, but lists a plethora of things from it.

So before thrashing out... "law of Christ" like we have now entered into a Greek NT law ... let us read the precedencts of what the OT establishes as the "law of Christ" as well as the NT. The OT needs the NT and the NT needs the OT. It is one book, not two. Even more so, the OT is the foundation of the NT. Without the foundation (the OT) the building( the NT) will fall.

[JewishHeart]

Justice and the Torah

Copyright By: Sean Steckbeck

Much of the Christian church has been talking as of late about restoring its Jewish Roots and joining itself more with the messianic movement. As Paul emphatically states in Romans 11, the church needs its Jewish Roots. In our attempt to make the Torah apply today in our lives as believers and as those in the Jewish Roots movement (messianics or Christians) we have scrutinized almost every law, whether it be by applying Oral Torah and Halacha or whether it be by applying a base of a Kariate messianic theology. Some have even gone to extent of creating a messianic Beit Din. I believe that this very paradigm is what Shaul was trying to stop in writing to the Galatians:

(Gal 4:10) Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.

The word for observe here is par-at-ay-reh'-o in the Greek which means to inspect scrupulously. In other words, Shaul wasn

[Guest shiloh357]

Beautiful article Sean!! Thank you for posting this?

[borntorebel]

nebula says,Have you not read in Romans where it says:

30since there is only one God, who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through that same faith. 31Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about--but not before God. 3What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." [Gen. 15:6]

4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

(Romans 3-4)?

Abraham was before the law. We're discussing the law here. Since the law didn't exist at Abraham's time, our discussion doesn't involve him. Yes Abraham was justified by faith, but he still had to do things to show his faith, i.e. sacrifice his son, move to a different land, etc. After proving his faith by doing all these things, God blessed him. That is the exact opposite of our salvation, where God sent His on to die for our sins even while we were filthy, despicable, evil enemies of God. We did not one single thing to earn our salvation. It is from God. If you or anyone else says anything but that, you are preaching a message of bondage condemned by Paul and the early apostles.

nebula says,

Have you read in Hebrews where it says:

10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The system of sacrifice for sin came from the Torah.  Jesus didn't replace the system of sacrifice - rather He became the fulfillment of the sacrifices - the ultimate and final sacrifice for sin.

The system of sacrifice in the OT was something that came only from the sweat of a man's brow. Man had to work to even be able to offer sacrifices for himself. Jesus gave himself as the ultimate sacrifice without any help from us pitiful, despicable, sin-loving, evil humans. You're missing the point of what I'm saying. Maybe you should try reading what I'm writing instead of just getting on your soapbox and preaching.

nebula says,

10:36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For in just a very little while,

  "He who is coming will come and will not delay.

        38But my righteous one will live by faith.

  And if he shrinks back,

      I will not be pleased with him."

That is a quote from this Old Testament Scripture:

Habakkuk 2

The LORD 's Answer

2 Then the LORD replied:

"Write down the revelation

and make it plain on tablets

so that a herald may run with it.

3 For the revelation awaits an appointed time;

it speaks of the end

and will not prove false.

Though it linger, wait for it;

it will certainly come and will not delay.

4 "See, he is puffed up;

his desires are not upright-

but the righteous will live by his faith

Once again nebula, you misquote and misapply scripture. The verse you quoted from Hebrews isn't a quote from Habakuk. It doesn't even say the same thing. last time I checked, a quote is when you restate something from another work word for word, or say before or after the quote what you are adding or taking away from the original statement. And anyway, what does one tiny sentence at the end of the OT say about how God operated in the lives of the people in the OT? God was speaking directly to Habakuk about a certain situation.

so by your fallen carnal

[tsth]

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: "In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.

In His Love,

Suzanne

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[borntorebel]

shiloh357 says,

That is a common Christian misunderstanding about the OT.  Christians make the mistake of thinking that people in the OT were saved by works, and we are saved by grace through faith. You clearly do not understand the OT, or the purpose of the Torah.  The OT is viewed by many Christians as a failed system, and it wasn't.  It  did EXACTLY what God created it to do.  Salvation was by grace through faith in the OT.

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph. 2:8-9.

Sorry shiloh, I prefer to believe Paul rather than you. You are basically saying that Paul wasted alot of time and papyrus talking about our salvation not being from works, but a gift from God. Yes, I do understand the OT, but I don't worship it as you do. You are preaching the same things that the Judaizers were preaching in Paul's day, putting christians back in bondage. I don't view the OT as a failed system. I agree with you that it was part of God's plan, a foreshadowing of what was to come, ensamples for us. I can't deny however, as you do, that the writers of the NT, as well as Jesus, clearly teach us to not go back to that from which Christ delivered us.

May God's grace, power and peace be with you,

Ron

[Guest shiloh357]

shiloh357 says,

That is a common Christian misunderstanding about the OT.