Did God create evil?

[GoldenEagle]

So in reading this thread... 

I was wondering from a Christian theological point of view what you think?

We began discussing this somewhat in our small group (Life Group) this week... And came accross this passage:

Is. 45:7  (NKJV)

I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’ 

Is. 45:7  (KJV)
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Is. 45:7  (ESV)

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the Lord, who does all these things.

What other passages apply to this idea? How do you view evil?

[JohnD]

the same sun that bakes the clay

softens the wax

[Guest man]

What other passages apply to this idea? How do you view evil?

 

Genesis 2

9And out of the ground the Lord God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

 

 

 

I believe evil is a necessary ingredient to understanding good. Without bad, good would not exist because there would be nothing to compare it too.

 

Just my opinion.

[Guest shiloh357]

In reference to the three of the knowlege of good and evil, what you have is a  figure of speech known as a merism.  A merism expresses totality in terms of polarity.  When some says that they "searched high and low" they mean they searched everywhere.  The phrase "good and evil"  means "everything."  The tree of the knowledge of everything, both good and evil.

 

The tree wasn't evil. God can't create moral evil because God, is light and there is no darkness in him at all according to 1 John.  So God creates only that which is perfect.  Sin corrupted God's creation but there is no basis in the Bible for making God  the creator of evil is not necessary for knowing or understanding God's character, much less applying God's communicable attributes to our own lives.  If it were a necessary ingredient, God would have engineered moral evil and its consequences (death, pain, suffering disease) into HIs creation, but He didn't. 

[GoldenEagle]

What is the difference between allowing and ordaining evil do you think?

[Guest shiloh357]

What is the difference between allowing and ordaining evil do you think?

 

Well in terms of moral evil.  If God ordains moral evil (sin) it runs contrary to His redemptive nature.  There are some hyper-sovereignty people who think that God ordains men to commit sin.  They see the fall of man in the Garden of Eden as a God-ordained event.

 

It's problematic because it puts God in the position of being responsible for men committing the very sins He commands them to repent of and cease to walk in.   So that makes no sense.   God allows people to do evil things, but God in His sovereignty can and does use those things to work out His will and purpose in the earth.  The story of Joseph in Genesis is a good example.  Gen. 50:20 is the key verse in the life of Joseph:  What you meant for evil, God meant for good. 

 

In terms of amoral evil such as natural disasters, God DOES sometimes uses those types of events into our lives again, for the purpose of working out his purpose.  God used a famine  to get Elimilech and his family into Moab in order to bring Ruth into the lineage of the Messiah.  God used a famine in Genesis to get Jacob's family into Egypt where they could grow into a nation of millions. 

 

God is not a passive observer in history.  He is an active participant.  We don't always understand why He allows bad things to happen and why He finds things like earthquakes and famines to be useful tools.   But these are things God is willing to use in a broken world to bring about the best possible good in every situation.

[other one]

evil is a by product of free will.  while that does give evil the ability to exist, but it doesn't demand that it exist so from my perspective doesn't create the evil.  i think God would be perfectly happy if everything decided not to express evil.

[bfloydo]

What is the difference between allowing and ordaining evil do you think?

  We are all God's creation and his desire is for us to Love him in "Truth and Spirit" . True Love is manifested in free will emotions and actions... it is not rooted in deceit, manipulation, or lies.

True Love recognizes free will in its desire to be loved, even to the point of being crucified.

God gives us a choice... follow his will, and know it is rooted in his selfless love for us....... or follow our own will, which is rooted in self and evil ways.

 

 I believe God allows for the capacity to do evil but, he does not seek for us to do evil(in fact the bible is one big lesson against evil) or reject his love. I also believe God uses evil actions(that he neither ordered or ordained) to be used as lessons for those of us that seek his will and love. He uses evil to teach goodness.... or he uses mans mistakes to teach other men not to make the same mistakes.

 I guess one could say God created man, man is evil...so God created evil.............. I think he just created capacity for evil or love..... we choose what to fill the vessel with.

Edited November 11, 2013 by bfloydo

[Guest DRS81]

Without evil, there's no forgiveness.

[GoldenEagle]

Does God's goodness change in the event that evil is no longer in existence?