Reasons Why God Allows Suffering?

[GoldenEagle]

The book of Job clearly indicates God's position on human suffering.

 

IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

 

Read the book.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft….

 

Perhaps then we should ignore 1/3 or so of the Psalms?

When you say it's none of our business do you mean that we shouldn't even talk about it or seek to try to understand suffering? Curious.

[rjp34652]

 

The book of Job clearly indicates God's position on human suffering.

 

IT IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS.

 

Read the book.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft….

 

Perhaps then we should ignore 1/3 or so of the Psalms?

When you say it's none of our business do you mean that we shouldn't even talk about it or seek to try to understand suffering? Curious.

 

God's purposes in our lives, including matters of health and fortune are none of our business.   This is to say that we cannot call God's reasons into question.

 

Many interpretations of the book of Job believe the man was patient.  He wasn't.  He just had a bridle on his tongue - a rather unusual habit for our own day.

 

Read the book of Job again.  At the end the point is made by God Himself, just in case the reader doesn't 'get it'.    God's purposes for Job are never really revealed even at the end, except perhaps to teach the one most important lesson.

 

The judgments and purposes of God are not our business.

 

The psalms are given for comfort and they do well in that purpose.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

Hi GE, I would like to respond to everything on here, but I realize that it is not going to be possible at this moment to do so - you know what I've already said (as a quick one to that last one: Job in fear is sin, just like anyone not in faith is sinning, however, the sin does not cancel out the righteousness.

 

To Abraham's account God credited him righteousness on account of the fact that he believed what God said, and with us we have the same righteousness. No one can ever or ever has (except Jesus) kept the Law (which is why He satisfied it for us so we could get the Blessing), and therefore, Job was not righteous because he kept the Law either (the Law wasn't even given yet), in the same way that Noah was righteous (because he believed God). Righteous works follow after righteousness itself; Job, just like anyone else righteous, was in a state of righteousness (as we are now through what Jesus has given to us through the New Covenant with His blood as the Lamb of God) and therefore his righteousness cannot be cancelled by sin, just as when Abraham lied at least twice and committed adultery, he was still righteous, as was David after Bathsheba, etc, just as a New Covenant Believer cannot lose their righteousness through ANY sin)).

 

Now let's move on to #2 - but I will have to come back tonight.

Edited November 27, 2013 by TheCurseOfTheRodain

[Guest DRS81]

 

 

God always puts more on you than you can endure, so that we will depend on Him.   Our power to endure comes from Jesus living within us in the Person of the Holy Spirit.

 

 

But 1 Cor 10:13 says the opposite. It says we will not be tempted beyond our ability so we will endure it.

 

 

I think you guys are discussing two differnt concept as I tried to mention earlier.

 

1 Cor. 10:13 has to do with temptation. What Shiloh is talking about I believe are tests, tribulations, and storms in life. Two very different things.

I agree God won't tempt us more than we can endure and will give an out. I also agree that God will put more on us than we can endure so that we learn to depend more on Him.

 

Hello GoldenEagle and shiloh357, and blessings to you these holidays. I have questions, concerns if you may. Ok, you say he puts more on us than we can endure. Can you please explain this more in-depth using examples, scriptures or personal wisdom. What if he puts more on us to the point of sinking into depression, suicidal thoughts or even developing cancer?

[GoldenEagle]

 

Hello GoldenEagle and shiloh357, and blessings to you these holidays. I have questions, concerns if you may. Ok, you say he puts more on us than we can endure. Can you please explain this more in-depth using examples, scriptures or personal wisdom. What if he puts more on us to the point of sinking into depression, suicidal thoughts or even developing cancer?

 

Hey DRS81!

Blessings to you brother during these holidays.

I don't believe God puts on us depression, suicidal thoughts, etc. Does God allow cancer? Yes. Does God allow suffering? Yes. Does God make His name known even in difficult circumstances? Yes!

The first and primary example (besides Job) that comes to mind is that of Joseph. Joseph was given significantly more than he could handle of his own strength... Joseph was sold into slavery by his own brothers as a youth, he was forced to go to a foreign land, he was sold to the captain of Pharaoh's guard - Potiphar, he was then made steward of Potiphar's household only to be accused falsely of raping his master's wife and then thrown into prison, he lived in prison for at least 2 years for a crime he didn't commit, yet Joseph made God's name known to Pharaoh of Egypt by interpreting the king's dreams, he was also used by God to save the people of Israel and those surrounding Egypt.

 

Yet we're told God was with Joseph through all this. Never did God forsake Joseph or turn His back on Joseph. See the next post for details.

God bless,

GE

[GoldenEagle]

Re: Joseph
 

In Genesis 41:46  we learn that Joseph was 30 when he was made overseer to the king of Egypt.  Since he was 17 when he was sold into Egypt, that means he spent 13 years total in Potiphars house and in prison. We know Joseph was in prison at least 2 years because chapter 40 tells us about the servants of the king whose dreams Joseph interpreted.  The first verse of chapter 41 tells us that 2 years passed after that event before the king had the dreams that Joseph was called to interpret. –

 

Genesis 37:2 tells us Joseph was 17 when he had the dreams he shared with his brothers.

Genesis 37 goes onto describe Joseph’s brothers wanting to kill Joseph but instead at the suggestion of Reuben cast Joseph into a pit. Then they sold Joseph as a slave to the Ishmaelite’s (Midianites - descendants of Ishmael) as we’re told in Genesis 37:25-28.

Genesis 39:1-4 tells us Joseph was taken to Egypt and bought by Potiphar who was the caption of the guard of Pharaoh. Notice verse 2 says God was with Joseph and made Joseph successful as the overseer of Potiphar’s household.

Genesis 39:2
2 The Lord was with Joseph, and he was a successful man; and he was in the house of his master the Egyptian.

 

Genesis 39 tells us that Potiphar’s wife wanted to seduce Joseph. Joseph refused and in Genesis 39:19-20 Potiphar’s wife lied about Joseph. We do not know the specifics of what she accused Joseph of but we do know from Genesis 39:16-17 that Joseph fled the scene and left behind his garment. Perhaps she accused him of rape? So Potiphar put Joseph in prison. But God was still with Joseph.

Genesis 39:21
21 But the Lord was with Joseph and showed him mercy, and He gave him favor in the sight of the keeper of the prison.

We do know that Joseph spent 13 years between Potiphars house and prison. Genesis 41:46 tells us Joseph was 30 when he was made overseer to Pharaoh in Egypt after interpreting Pharaoh’s dreams.

 

Genesis 41:1 tells us that it was a full two years after Joseph interpreted the dreams of the chief baker and chief butler. So Joseph spent at least 2 years or more in the prison for something he didn’t do.

Yet God had a plan. Joseph’s brothers came to Egypt to buy food and then returned again a second time. When word reached Pharaoh that Joseph’s brothers had come Pharaoh promised Israel’s descendants the best of all the land in Egypt (Genesis 45:20).

Genesis 45:16-20
16 Now the report of it was heard in Pharaoh’s house, saying, “Joseph’s brothers have come.” So it pleased Pharaoh and his servants well. 17 And Pharaoh said to Joseph, “Say to your brothers, ‘Do this: Load your animals and depart; go to the land of Canaan. 18 Bring your father and your households and come to me; I will give you the best of the land of Egypt, and you will eat the fat of the land. 19 Now you are commanded—do this: Take carts out of the land of Egypt for your little ones and your wives; bring your father and come. 20 Also do not be concerned about your goods, for the best of all the land of Egypt is yours.’”
 

Joseph's family were herders and the best land for such purposes in Goshen. (Genesis 47:5-6)
 

This is the key passage to me of this story. Yes, God did miracles through Joseph. Yes God was with Joseph throughout Joseph’s life. But Joseph understood that while his brothers meant to harm him God had a plan to bring about good by saving not only Joseph’s family, but the Egyptians, and all the nations surrounding Egypt. Pay particular attention to verses 19 and 20.

 

Genesis 50:15-21
15 When Joseph’s brothers saw that their father was dead, they said, “Perhaps Joseph will hate us, and may actually repay us for all the evil which we did to him.” 16 So they sent messengers to Joseph, saying, “Before your father died he commanded, saying, 17 ‘Thus you shall say to Joseph: “I beg you, please forgive the trespass of your brothers and their sin; for they did evil to you.”’ Now, please, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of your father.” And Joseph wept when they spoke to him.

18 Then his brothers also went and fell down before his face, and they said, “Behold, we are your servants.”

19 Joseph said to them, “Do not be afraid, for am I in the place of God? 20 But as for you, you meant evil against me; but God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive. 21 Now therefore, do not be afraid; I will provide for you and your little ones.” And he comforted them and spoke kindly to them.

What are your thoughts?

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest shiloh357]

Re: Joseph

 

What are your thoughts?

 

God bless,

GE

I think it is important to note that Joseph's time in both Potiphar's house and in prison revealed his character.   That is what suffering does.  It shows us what we are made of.  God uses tough times to sharpen us and develop us so that we have the character to deal with things like tragedies and the real suffering in life. 

 

The difference between situations that God uses to sharpen us and the tragedies and misfortunes that occur in life is that God will never break your heart.  God will not take your children from you to teach you a lesson. He will not send cancer to your spouse or cause a loved one to get hit by a drunk driver or something like that.  He might test us with temporary hardships and adversities that are meant to cause us to learn how to draw close to Him, but nothing God sends us will ever harm us when His purpose is to build us up.

[Guest DRS81]

What are your thoughts?

 

God bless,

GE

 

I can agree with you that God is with us through suffering, but what about for nonbelievers. For example, read below.....

 

The difference between situations that God uses to sharpen us and the tragedies and misfortunes that occur in life is that God will never break your heart.  God will not take your children from you to teach you a lesson. He will not send cancer to your spouse or cause a loved one to get hit by a drunk driver or something like that.  He might test us with temporary hardships and adversities that are meant to cause us to learn how to draw close to Him, but nothing God sends us will ever harm us when His purpose is to build us up.

 

I'll give you a good example here (from my own life). When I was six years old (it was 1987), my cousin Matthew died from Leukemia, the bone marrow and treatments didn't work in the end. He was 11 years old. My aunt Becky (Matthew's mom) suffered much after his death. The next day or the following week, she couldn't talk or get off the couch from what I was told, because the grief was so debilitating. The next 20 years she hit the bottle hard and became an alcoholic. She eventually died a few years ago from a bad liver, her organs just shut down completely. She drank hard...and long. Aunt Becky never found God I am sad to say. So my question is, why didn't God draw near to my aunt knowing of her difficult circumstances? (John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.)

[Guest shiloh357]

 

What are your thoughts?

 

God bless,

GE

 

I can agree with you that God is with us through suffering, but what about for nonbelievers. For example, read below.....

 

The difference between situations that God uses to sharpen us and the tragedies and misfortunes that occur in life is that God will never break your heart.  God will not take your children from you to teach you a lesson. He will not send cancer to your spouse or cause a loved one to get hit by a drunk driver or something like that.  He might test us with temporary hardships and adversities that are meant to cause us to learn how to draw close to Him, but nothing God sends us will ever harm us when His purpose is to build us up.

 

I'll give you a good example here (from my own life). When I was six years old (it was 1987), my cousin Matthew died from Leukemia, the bone marrow and treatments didn't work in the end. He was 11 years old. My aunt Becky (Matthew's mom) suffered much after his death. The next day or the following week, she couldn't talk or get off the couch from what I was told, because the grief was so debilitating. The next 20 years she hit the bottle hard and became an alcoholic. She eventually died a few years ago from a bad liver, her organs just shut down completely. She drank hard...and long. Aunt Becky never found God I am sad to say. So my question is, why didn't God draw near to my aunt knowing of her difficult circumstances? (John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.)

 

 

Based on the information you supplied, I am not sure that God didn't try to draw near to her.  It is clear that her gried reached an unhealthy and self-destructive state.   I don't know that God didn't send people into life to help her and to minister to her based on what you have said above.   The loss of a child is not something a parent ever "gets over," and some people deal with it better than others.

 

God never sends those kinds of things into our lives to teach us how to draw close to Him.  We live in a broken world where tragedy strikes and we don't always have the answers for why things happen the way we do.  God may send adveristy to build us up, but never sends stuff that will destroy us.

[Fez]

Shiloh makes an interesting point (forgive me if I misinterpret brother).

 

Suffering revealed the character in Joseph, more than building it?

 

But Paul tells us,

 

Rom 5:3  More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 

Rom 5:4  and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 

Rom 5:5  and hope does not put us to shame, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. 

 

I would say that both are true. Suffering reveals character and also builds it.