After the Peace Treaty is signed

[firestormx]

 

I am referencing in chapter 6 where after the 6th seal opens, where the people start talking about, " hide us from the face of him that sits on the throne and his wrath " . It takes things getting to the 6th seal before people realize what's going on. I don't think any of the seals have opened yet. I also believe that the anti-Christ will be revealed at the mid-point of the 70th week. There have always been wars, but it don't mean the 2nd seal has always been opened. The 70th week has to begin first. Israel is the key. Watch Israel and study to show yourself approved as scripture states.

 

Thank you everyone for your responses. This is answering a lot of my questions.

 

firestormx, so what you're saying is that the seven seals specifically have to do with apocalyptic events? For example, WWI/WWII/Vietnam War/Gulf War/Gaza strip, false prophets, famine in third world countries, AIDS, beheading of christians in other countries, blood moons, horrific weather patterns, these things have already happened etc.....if these things were not part of the six seals opening, then what exactly do these things I've mentioned represent if not part of the six seals? If they weren't apocalyptic, then what were they? Blessings. - DRS81

 

I would say birth pains, to use the reference of Jesus. I mean bad things have always happened. What about those things that you listed are so different from anything else that has happened in history? What about the holocaust for example? There is nothing specific in scripture about that tragedy? Also, remember that Israel was not even a nation with control of Jerusalem until 1967. Israel had to be a nation before anything from the 1st seal on could happen anyway. To put it another way, when Jesus come he fulfilled the scriptures verbatim.  When the seals/trumpets/bowels start they also will be fulfilled just as the word says. Consider this verse.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:4

 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

 

Do you see what this verse is saying. Although no man will know the day and hour of the return of Jesus we as believers can know enough that it won't overtake us a thief in the night, like it will unbelievers. What does this mean. That when the end truly starts, the bible says the church will make herself ready, and we will be unified in purpose as never before. It will be very clear IMO to believers when the end is truly happening.

 

How can I say these things? Easy. There is a scriptural precedent for it. Jesus first coming. When John the Baptist was ministering, he knew, absolutely knew that the Christ would come right after him. He didn't know the day or hour, but knew the Christ come after he did. He knew that his ministry was to prepare the hearts of the people for the coming Christ. Do you really think the work of the church as whole will be any different at the end? So we believers will know the end is at hand, so the work of the ministry, the preparing the hearts of the people for the coming of Jesus, can happen as it is foretold in the bible.

Edited November 12, 2013 by firestormx

[Guest DRS81]

I would say birth pains, to use the reference of Jesus.

 

I can agree with that.

 

1. Ok so, you think the antichrist will appear in Mid trib. Why?

2. So you think the antichrist will reveal himself AFTER all the bad stuff in the seals?

3. Do you think the seals opening is Satans doing or just God's will coming to pass?

 

For example, I was told that just the bowls was part of God's wrath and the seals were not God's wrath, just his will.

 

4. Do you think the six seals will be opened in the first half of Trib and the bowls in the second half of trib?

5. Also, here's the big question. When do you think rapture will occur, pre-mid-post? and why.

 

Blessings.

[firestormx]

 

I would say birth pains, to use the reference of Jesus.

 

I can agree with that.

 

1. Ok so, you think the antichrist will appear in Mid trib. Why?

I think the anti-Christ will be revealed at the mid point. Because that is when he commits the abomination of desolations.

2. So you think the antichrist will reveal himself AFTER all the bad stuff in the seals?

After at least 5  of them. The reason is Matthew 24. In that chapter after the abomination of desolations an event occurs that I believe is the 6th seal.

3. Do you think the seals opening is Satans doing or just God's will coming to pass?

The book of revelation is clear it is Jesus whom opens the seals. But Just because he opens the seals doesn't mean they are the wrath of God.

 

For example, I was told that just the bowls was part of God's wrath and the seals were not God's wrath, just his will.

 

4. Do you think the six seals will be opened in the first half of Trib and the bowls in the second half of trib?

I think the first 5 are for sure in the first half. In Matthew 24, right after Jesus talks about the persecution and martyr of the saints ( which is the 5th seal ) the mid point happens. If that is the way Jesus said it would happen, then that's what I believe.  

5. Also, here's the big question. When do you think rapture will occur, pre-mid-post? and why.

I believe the rapture will occur Pre-wrath.

 

Joel 2:31

³¹ The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

 

Matthew 24:29-31

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Revelation 6:12-16

 

 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

 

These verses are a good start as to why I believe pre-wrath. The verse in Joel says this event happens before his wrath. In Matthew 24 it says after this event is when people on earth mourn and realize what is going on.  It's also in Matthew 24 that after this event is the rapture. In revelation 6 it identifies this event as the 6th seal, and also backs up that it is after this event when people on earth mourn and realize God's wrath is about to fall. If you read into revelation 7 there is suddenly all these people in heaven.

 

Blessings.

 

I hope this answers your questions. God bless you

[Guest DRS81]

Matthew 24:29-31

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

1. First off, when Matthew 24 says Immediately AFTER the TRIBULATION, does this mean immediately after the FIRST 3 1/2 YEARS. Do you think.

2. Is the bowls, God's wrath PART of tribulation. Is the wrath considered part of the seven year trib. Do you have scripture.

3. What is the abomination of desolations. I know it's in the book of Daniel but..the abomination and desolation of what exactly. What is the event all about.

4. When you say you're pre-wrath, that's different from pre-trib correct. Because many believe in pre-trib. Why don't you believe in pre-trib.

5. When you say you're pre-wrath and the antichrist falls in mid-trib, where do you think rapture will be...minutes/hours/days after antichrist is revealed.

6. What is your timeline that you see. Is it 6th seal opens/Then Antichrist revealed/THEN the rapture. Again, what are your minutes/hours/days.

7. So what you're saying is that christians have to live THROUGH SEAL 1/2/3/4/5, then after seal 6, the rapture comes.

8. How in the world will christians survive seal 1-5. Some won't. Again, how many minutes/hours/days between the antichrist and the rapture.

9. If you say non believers won't be aware or realize of tribulation they why does seal 5 exist in the first place.

10. Do you think the four blood moons in the heavens in 2014-2015 will be signs of the peace treaty to come.

I like talking to you man. You're making sense.

[nikki1]

Is it possible the peace treaty has already been signed and the mark of the beast is being implemented now? Would they put the seven year peace treaty on these online news sites or keep it hidden from us?

I think it is important that you and everyone else here  understand that there are three views regarding Daniel's 70th week where Daniel writes about the confirming the covenant.  The three views about the 70th week are it is already fulfilled, partially fulfilled or not yet fulfilled.

[nikki1]

What about the holocaust for example? There is nothing specific in scripture about that tragedy?

 

The Holocaust Prophesied

 

By Bob Westbrook and Stan Goodenough

 

The Holocaust is an unprecendent and unspeakable event for the Jewish people and all of human history. This was the final episode among many episodes of persecution for the Jewish people while exiled from their land, dispersed among the nations. Now, they have their own homeland where they do not have to be subjected to the cruel whims of the nations in which they lived.

 

"Surely the Lord GOD does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets." Amos 3:7 NASB. If every significant event in the history of the Jews has been declared in advance in the Bible, are there not Bible prophecies which describe these events? Should we not expect to find in the Bible predictions of the holocaust, and the subsequent founding of the state? Yes.

 

In Jeremiah 30, we find prophecies that describe the horrors of the holocaust, and the subsequent restoration of the Jewish people to their own land that allows them to be free from oppression in foreign lands. God begins with one of His frequent declarations regarding the restoration of Israel to the land that was promised "'The days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their forefathers to possess,' says the LORD." .(Jeremiah 30:3 NIV)

 

That is a straightforward statement, easy to comprehend. We understand it to be speaking of the founding of the modern state of Israel in 1948. But the next verse conveys an abrupt change in tone, and may seem to not fit very well at first. However, now that we have the perspective of understanding the circumstances that surrounded the founding of Israel, we know to what it is referring.

 

"This is what the LORD says: "'Cries of fear are heard-- terror, not peace. Ask and see: Can a man bear children? Then why do I see every strong man with his hands on his stomach like a woman in labor, every face turned deathly pale? How awful that day will be! None will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it." (Jeremiah 30:5-7 NIV) Read more

[Guest DRS81]

I've learned that the Holocaust was just birth pains and not part of the first five seals. Am I correct saying this.

[nikki1]

I do not consider the Holocaust a part of birth pains because the scripture says "How awful that day will be! None will be like it. It will be a time of trouble for Jacob, (Israel) but he will be saved out of it." Jeremiah 30:5-7

 

KJV reads "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's (Israel's) trouble; but he shall be saved out of it"

[Hindsfeet]

 

 

I would say birth pains, to use the reference of Jesus.

 

I can agree with that.

 

1. Ok so, you think the antichrist will appear in Mid trib. Why?

I think the anti-Christ will be revealed at the mid point. Because that is when he commits the abomination of desolations.

2. So you think the antichrist will reveal himself AFTER all the bad stuff in the seals?

After at least 5  of them. The reason is Matthew 24. In that chapter after the abomination of desolations an event occurs that I believe is the 6th seal.

3. Do you think the seals opening is Satans doing or just God's will coming to pass?

The book of revelation is clear it is Jesus whom opens the seals. But Just because he opens the seals doesn't mean they are the wrath of God.

 

For example, I was told that just the bowls was part of God's wrath and the seals were not God's wrath, just his will.

 

4. Do you think the six seals will be opened in the first half of Trib and the bowls in the second half of trib?

I think the first 5 are for sure in the first half. In Matthew 24, right after Jesus talks about the persecution and martyr of the saints ( which is the 5th seal ) the mid point happens. If that is the way Jesus said it would happen, then that's what I believe.  

5. Also, here's the big question. When do you think rapture will occur, pre-mid-post? and why.

I believe the rapture will occur Pre-wrath.

 

Joel 2:31

³¹ The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and terrible day of the Lord come.

 

Matthew 24:29-31

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Revelation 6:12-16

 

 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

¹³ And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

¹⁴ And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

¹⁵ And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

¹⁶ And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

 

 

These verses are a good start as to why I believe pre-wrath. The verse in Joel says this event happens before his wrath. In Matthew 24 it says after this event is when people on earth mourn and realize what is going on.  It's also in Matthew 24 that after this event is the rapture. In revelation 6 it identifies this event as the 6th seal, and also backs up that it is after this event when people on earth mourn and realize God's wrath is about to fall. If you read into revelation 7 there is suddenly all these people in heaven.

 

Blessings.

 

I hope this answers your questions. God bless you

 

amen!

[firestormx]

 

Matthew 24:29-31

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

1. First off, when Matthew 24 says Immediately AFTER the TRIBULATION, does this mean immediately after the FIRST 3 1/2 YEARS. Do you think.

I personally have always seen it as Immediately after the tribulation of the abomination of desolation and everything that follows that Jesus describes in great detail.

 

2. Is the bowls, God's wrath PART of tribulation. Is the wrath considered part of the seven year trib. Do you have scripture.

Look back to the verse in Joel I gave above, it states very clearly that event is before God's wrath. Then we are raptured. then the Wrath of God begins, which includes bowels and trumpets.

 

3. What is the abomination of desolations. I know it's in the book of Daniel but..the abomination and desolation of what exactly. What is the event all about.

The defilement of the Temple in Israel. The anti-Christ will go into the temple in Israel ( that hasn't been built yet ) sit down on a throne and declare himself God.

 

4. When you say you're pre-wrath, that's different from pre-trib correct. Because many believe in pre-trib. Why don't you believe in pre-trib.

Yes, it is different. Pre-trib believe all of the seven seals are God's wrath, whereas I understand Joel 2 ( the verse I gave above ) to clearly state that the 6th seal is before God's wrath.

 

5. When you say you're pre-wrath and the antichrist falls in mid-trib, where do you think rapture will be...minutes/hours/days after antichrist is revealed.

The bible is clear that No One, not even Christ knows the day/hours/minutes of the rapture.

 

6. What is your timeline that you see. Is it 6th seal opens/Then Antichrist revealed/THEN the rapture. Again, what are your minutes/hours/days.

Antichrist revealed/6th seal opens//THEN the rapture. Again, no one knows the day or hour. It is impossible to say the day or hour, because the bible says no one will know.

7. So what you're saying is that christians have to live THROUGH SEAL 1/2/3/4/5, then after seal 6, the rapture comes.

Yes, correct. That is what I am saying.

8. How in the world will christians survive seal 1-5. Some won't. Again, how many minutes/hours/days between the antichrist and the rapture.

A lot of Christians won't make it. Again, impossible to answer, no one knows the day or hour of the return of Christ.

9. If you say non believers won't be aware or realize of tribulation they why does seal 5 exist in the first place.

The bible says in revelation 6 that it's not until the 6th seal that the unbelievers realize what is going on. Most of the unbelievers will not even realize that bible prophecy is being fulfilled when the Christians are being martyred.

10. Do you think the four blood moons in the heavens in 2014-2015 will be signs of the peace treaty to come.

Great question, I honestly don't know. But I ( like you it would seem ) am very interested to see what happens during this time, especially considering everything else that has happened in history when there has been A blood moon event like this.

I like talking to you man. You're making sense.