After the Peace Treaty is signed

[nikki1]

Nikki1

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks.  Gabriel was the messenger.  Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

So? This doesn't change anything about the interpretation and the time span of the entire prophecy.

 

 

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks. Gabriel was the messenger. Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

Huh?

 

Daniel never said Israel or Jerusalem  would complete the prophecy-- Daniel was speaking of  Judah's Messiah"  How could Israel and Jerusalem  ever fulfill the criteria?  Israel is not the messiah.  How could Israel seal up the vision and  prophecy? finish the transgressions? to bring in everlasting righteousness?

 

At the time Daniel was given the prophecy, Daniel was praying for mercy and guidance for his people as they were going to go back to their homeland Daniel 1:19 and it was nearing the end of Jeremiah's prophecy of the 70 year captivity.  Regarding this vision, Jeremiah prophesied that after 70 years accomplished at Babylon, speaking aabout the LORD  "I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place".  Jeremiah 29:10

 

If this prophecy is not about Jesus Christ, then who is the Messiah who was cut off after threescore and two weeks? vs. 26 but not for himself?

 

Why would Daniel, after prophesizing  the above about Judah's Messiah, change the subject  in the middle of the scripture in the  very next verse 27 and say  "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"  speak of antichrist when the entire prophecy is about the Messiah?  The covenant confirmed was the New Covenant by Jesus or the New Testament while He was on earth for 3.5 years and ending with His crucifixion and resurrection.

 

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant  with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

The problem with pre trib teacher's rapture thinking is that they have had to make a new dispensation period to cover for their misguided thinking of a pre-trib rapture, thus we have the 2,000+ gap theroy which came about with the pre-trib rapture theory in the 1800's.

 

People like Thomas Ice think that they need to postpone God's prophetic clock, and have created an unbiblical gap in the countdown of the 69th and 70th week, because according to these pre-trib misguided teachers, Jesus did not establish His kingdom due to the Jews rejecting him.  Without a gap, according to their way of thinking, it blows a hole in their pre-trib rapture, great tribulation and rebuilt temple theory,  and there can be none of these events.   Thus, they have created the gap theory  In plain English, no gap = no pre-trib rapture. 

 

According to these misguided teachers, Daniels's 69 weeks ended in AD33 and they, and their followers are still waiting for God to restart his prophetic time clock.  This totally contradicts Jesus' message when he was looking ahead to the end of the 70th week  when he said  "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand --Mark 1:15.  Jesus being God knew that the kingdom of God was to come at the end of the 70th week.  If Jesus knew this, and said this, which He did, then obviously the end of Daniel's 70th week was at hand.

 

If on the other hand, Jesus knew that there was to be a 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week,  Jesus was wrong   and misleading to say "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand."  I hardly think Jesus was wrong or misleading, but it appears that pre-trib teachers and their followers do. 

 

Jesus, being God, knew Daniel's 9:24-27 prophecy better than anyone and His statement that the establishment of the kingdom was near and at hand by saying "the time is fulfilled' is more than proof there is not a 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, which means there is no pre-trib rapture.

 

I  don't want any  opinion  which "presumes" your pre-trib  interpretation is true thus  imposing  it on the scriptures to prove it true.  I believe scripture in Daniel 9 reads straight through.  I believe Jesus was the Messiah cut off in the midst of the week and Jesus early ministry started at the beginning of the 70th week (Mark 1:15 when Jesus said "the time is fulfilled"; the kingdom of God is at hand." Using common sense, He walked the earth 3.5 years.

 

Further, I'd like to know how is it that the first 69 weeks is about the Messiah, but then it abruptly changes to the "antichrist" since there is nothing in Daniel which says that the "antichrist" puts an end to sacrifices?

 

Also, I'd like to know once the sacrifices were ended with Jesus' crucifixion ,and when the temple was destroyed in 70AD, where does it say that they would ever continue, so someone else would put an end to the sacrifices too?   Where is the scriptural proof?  I have a very difficult time believing that the "he in Daniel 9:27 is different from the Messiah spoken of in Daniel 9:26.

[firestormx]

 

Nikki1

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks.  Gabriel was the messenger.  Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

So? This doesn't change anything about the interpretation and the time span of the entire prophecy.

 

 

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks. Gabriel was the messenger. Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

Huh?

 

Daniel never said Israel or Jerusalem  would complete the prophecy-- Daniel was speaking of  Judah's Messiah"  How could Israel and Jerusalem  ever fulfill the criteria?  Israel is not the messiah.  How could Israel seal up the vision and  prophecy? finish the transgressions? to bring in everlasting righteousness?

 

At the time Daniel was given the prophecy, Daniel was praying for mercy and guidance for his people as they were going to go back to their homeland Daniel 1:19 and it was nearing the end of Jeremiah's prophecy of the 70 year captivity.  Regarding this vision, Jeremiah prophesied that after 70 years accomplished at Babylon, speaking aabout the LORD  "I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place".  Jeremiah 29:10

 

If this prophecy is not about Jesus Christ, then who is the Messiah who was cut off after threescore and two weeks? vs. 26 but not for himself?

 

Why would Daniel, after prophesizing  the above about Judah's Messiah, change the subject  in the middle of the scripture in the  very next verse 27 and say  "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"  speak of antichrist when the entire prophecy is about the Messiah?  The covenant confirmed was the New Covenant by Jesus or the New Testament while He was on earth for 3.5 years and ending with His crucifixion and resurrection.

 

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant  with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

The problem with pre trib teacher's rapture thinking is that they have had to make a new dispensation period to cover for their misguided thinking of a pre-trib rapture, thus we have the 2,000+ gap theroy which came about with the pre-trib rapture theory in the 1800's.

 

People like Thomas Ice think that they need to postpone God's prophetic clock, and have created an unbiblical gap in the countdown of the 69th and 70th week, because according to these pre-trib misguided teachers, Jesus did not establish His kingdom due to the Jews rejecting him.  Without a gap, according to their way of thinking, it blows a hole in their pre-trib rapture, great tribulation and rebuilt temple theory,  and there can be none of these events.   Thus, they have created the gap theory  In plain English, no gap = no pre-trib rapture. 

 

According to these misguided teachers, Daniels's 69 weeks ended in AD33 and they, and their followers are still waiting for God to restart his prophetic time clock.  This totally contradicts Jesus' message when he was looking ahead to the end of the 70th week  when he said  "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand --Mark 1:15.  Jesus being God knew that the kingdom of God was to come at the end of the 70th week.  If Jesus knew this, and said this, which He did, then obviously the end of Daniel's 70th week was at hand.

 

If on the other hand, Jesus knew that there was to be a 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week,  Jesus was wrong   and misleading to say "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand."  I hardly think Jesus was wrong or misleading, but it appears that pre-trib teachers and their followers do. 

 

Jesus, being God, knew Daniel's 9:24-27 prophecy better than anyone and His statement that the establishment of the kingdom was near and at hand by saying "the time is fulfilled' is more than proof there is not a 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, which means there is no pre-trib rapture.

 

I  don't want any  opinion  which "presumes" your pre-trib  interpretation is true thus  imposing  it on the scriptures to prove it true.  I believe scripture in Daniel 9 reads straight through.  I believe Jesus was the Messiah cut off in the midst of the week and Jesus early ministry started at the beginning of the 70th week (Mark 1:15 when Jesus said "the time is fulfilled"; the kingdom of God is at hand." Using common sense, He walked the earth 3.5 years.

 

Further, I'd like to know how is it that the first 69 weeks is about the Messiah, but then it abruptly changes to the "antichrist" since there is nothing in Daniel which says that the "antichrist" puts an end to sacrifices?

 

Also, I'd like to know once the sacrifices were ended with Jesus' crucifixion ,and when the temple was destroyed in 70AD, where does it say that they would ever continue, so someone else would put an end to the sacrifices too?   Where is the scriptural proof?  I have a very difficult time believing that the "he in Daniel 9:27 is different from the Messiah spoken of in Daniel 9:26.

 

Can I suggest you read these verses in Hebrew. When you do, you will see your interpretation is off. For instance, verse 27 is clear that it is an abomination that stops the sacrifice in the temple. What abomination are you suggesting that Jesus committed to stop the sacrifice? Lastly, I'm not pre-trip, so please don't throw that accusation at me.

 

P.S. The anti-Christ is first found in verse 26 not 27.

[nikki1]

 

 

Nikki1

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks.  Gabriel was the messenger.  Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

So? This doesn't change anything about the interpretation and the time span of the entire prophecy.

 

 

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks. Gabriel was the messenger. Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

Huh?

 

Daniel never said Israel or Jerusalem  would complete the prophecy-- Daniel was speaking of  Judah's Messiah"  How could Israel and Jerusalem  ever fulfill the criteria?  Israel is not the messiah.  How could Israel seal up the vision and  prophecy? finish the transgressions? to bring in everlasting righteousness?

 

At the time Daniel was given the prophecy, Daniel was praying for mercy and guidance for his people as they were going to go back to their homeland Daniel 1:19 and it was nearing the end of Jeremiah's prophecy of the 70 year captivity.  Regarding this vision, Jeremiah prophesied that after 70 years accomplished at Babylon, speaking aabout the LORD  "I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place".  Jeremiah 29:10

 

If this prophecy is not about Jesus Christ, then who is the Messiah who was cut off after threescore and two weeks? vs. 26 but not for himself?

 

Why would Daniel, after prophesizing  the above about Judah's Messiah, change the subject  in the middle of the scripture in the  very next verse 27 and say  "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"  speak of antichrist when the entire prophecy is about the Messiah?  The covenant confirmed was the New Covenant by Jesus or the New Testament while He was on earth for 3.5 years and ending with His crucifixion and resurrection.

 

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant  with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

The problem with pre trib teacher's rapture thinking is that they have had to make a new dispensation period to cover for their misguided thinking of a pre-trib rapture, thus we have the 2,000+ gap theroy which came about with the pre-trib rapture theory in the 1800's.

 

People like Thomas Ice think that they need to postpone God's prophetic clock, and have created an unbiblical gap in the countdown of the 69th and 70th week, because according to these pre-trib misguided teachers, Jesus did not establish His kingdom due to the Jews rejecting him.  Without a gap, according to their way of thinking, it blows a hole in their pre-trib rapture, great tribulation and rebuilt temple theory,  and there can be none of these events.   Thus, they have created the gap theory  In plain English, no gap = no pre-trib rapture. 

 

According to these misguided teachers, Daniels's 69 weeks ended in AD33 and they, and their followers are still waiting for God to restart his prophetic time clock.  This totally contradicts Jesus' message when he was looking ahead to the end of the 70th week  when he said  "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand --Mark 1:15.  Jesus being God knew that the kingdom of God was to come at the end of the 70th week.  If Jesus knew this, and said this, which He did, then obviously the end of Daniel's 70th week was at hand.

 

If on the other hand, Jesus knew that there was to be a 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week,  Jesus was wrong   and misleading to say "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand."  I hardly think Jesus was wrong or misleading, but it appears that pre-trib teachers and their followers do. 

 

Jesus, being God, knew Daniel's 9:24-27 prophecy better than anyone and His statement that the establishment of the kingdom was near and at hand by saying "the time is fulfilled' is more than proof there is not a 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, which means there is no pre-trib rapture.

 

I  don't want any  opinion  which "presumes" your pre-trib  interpretation is true thus  imposing  it on the scriptures to prove it true.  I believe scripture in Daniel 9 reads straight through.  I believe Jesus was the Messiah cut off in the midst of the week and Jesus early ministry started at the beginning of the 70th week (Mark 1:15 when Jesus said "the time is fulfilled"; the kingdom of God is at hand." Using common sense, He walked the earth 3.5 years.

 

Further, I'd like to know how is it that the first 69 weeks is about the Messiah, but then it abruptly changes to the "antichrist" since there is nothing in Daniel which says that the "antichrist" puts an end to sacrifices?

 

Also, I'd like to know once the sacrifices were ended with Jesus' crucifixion ,and when the temple was destroyed in 70AD, where does it say that they would ever continue, so someone else would put an end to the sacrifices too?   Where is the scriptural proof?  I have a very difficult time believing that the "he in Daniel 9:27 is different from the Messiah spoken of in Daniel 9:26.

 

Can I suggest you read these verses in Hebrew. When you do, you will see your interpretation is off. For instance, verse 27 is clear that it is an abomination that stops the sacrifice in the temple. What abomination are you suggesting that Jesus committed to stop the sacrifice? Lastly, I'm not pre-trip, so please don't throw that accusation at me.

 

P.S. The anti-Christ is first found in verse 26 not 27.

 

 

No the antichrist is not found in verse 26. Anyone can say anything is in the Bible, but my Bible does not read antichrist in vs. 26.That is an unproven theory and  assumption. 

 

You nicely dodged all the questions I have presented which proves what I have said,  which leads me to believe that you have no scriptural evidence to answer any of my questions.    <<< removed personal attack >>>  And yes, I have referenced with the Greek/Hebrew Concordance.  I probably have done as much, or more research on Daniel 9:24-27 as you, so please don't imply that I haven't and suggest that I read this or that.

 

 

 

What abomination are you suggesting that Jesus committed to stop the sacrifice?

 

huh?  I never said Jesus committed any abomination.  I cannot help but  notice you took one word out of a whole passage and distorted what I said, or perhaps you do not understand what I said.   I think you need to read the prophecy in it's in entirety and then refer to my questions in lieu of picking out words to distort a passage. 

 

Honestly, I am getting tired of repeating myself.  You may not be pre trib, but your opinions are based upon those set by pre-trib teachers, who also cannot answer the  valid  questions that searching people ask rather than to take some man's teaching as fact.    

 

I would also appreciate it if you  are going to make scriptural claims, please put the scriptures up as I have done, and point to the scriptures where it says what you are saying.    Otherwise, it is worthless to discuss this with you. 

Edited November 18, 2013 by GoldenEagle
Removed personal attack in bold.

[firestormx]

 

 

 

Nikki1

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks.  Gabriel was the messenger.  Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for YOUR People (plural) and YOUR Holy City (Jerusalem) to: complete the six tasks

So? This doesn't change anything about the interpretation and the time span of the entire prophecy.

 

 

 

This is not a prophecy about Jesus Christ fulfilling these tasks, It is for Israel and Jerusalem to fulfill these six tasks. Gabriel was the messenger. Some non dispensational people try to use substitution to discredit what Gabriel told Daniel.

 

Huh?

 

Daniel never said Israel or Jerusalem  would complete the prophecy-- Daniel was speaking of  Judah's Messiah"  How could Israel and Jerusalem  ever fulfill the criteria?  Israel is not the messiah.  How could Israel seal up the vision and  prophecy? finish the transgressions? to bring in everlasting righteousness?

 

At the time Daniel was given the prophecy, Daniel was praying for mercy and guidance for his people as they were going to go back to their homeland Daniel 1:19 and it was nearing the end of Jeremiah's prophecy of the 70 year captivity.  Regarding this vision, Jeremiah prophesied that after 70 years accomplished at Babylon, speaking aabout the LORD  "I will visit you, and perform my good word toward you, in causing you to return to this place".  Jeremiah 29:10

 

If this prophecy is not about Jesus Christ, then who is the Messiah who was cut off after threescore and two weeks? vs. 26 but not for himself?

 

Why would Daniel, after prophesizing  the above about Judah's Messiah, change the subject  in the middle of the scripture in the  very next verse 27 and say  "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week"  speak of antichrist when the entire prophecy is about the Messiah?  The covenant confirmed was the New Covenant by Jesus or the New Testament while He was on earth for 3.5 years and ending with His crucifixion and resurrection.

 

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant  with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

 

The problem with pre trib teacher's rapture thinking is that they have had to make a new dispensation period to cover for their misguided thinking of a pre-trib rapture, thus we have the 2,000+ gap theroy which came about with the pre-trib rapture theory in the 1800's.

 

People like Thomas Ice think that they need to postpone God's prophetic clock, and have created an unbiblical gap in the countdown of the 69th and 70th week, because according to these pre-trib misguided teachers, Jesus did not establish His kingdom due to the Jews rejecting him.  Without a gap, according to their way of thinking, it blows a hole in their pre-trib rapture, great tribulation and rebuilt temple theory,  and there can be none of these events.   Thus, they have created the gap theory  In plain English, no gap = no pre-trib rapture. 

 

According to these misguided teachers, Daniels's 69 weeks ended in AD33 and they, and their followers are still waiting for God to restart his prophetic time clock.  This totally contradicts Jesus' message when he was looking ahead to the end of the 70th week  when he said  "The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand --Mark 1:15.  Jesus being God knew that the kingdom of God was to come at the end of the 70th week.  If Jesus knew this, and said this, which He did, then obviously the end of Daniel's 70th week was at hand.

 

If on the other hand, Jesus knew that there was to be a 2000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week,  Jesus was wrong   and misleading to say "the time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand."  I hardly think Jesus was wrong or misleading, but it appears that pre-trib teachers and their followers do. 

 

Jesus, being God, knew Daniel's 9:24-27 prophecy better than anyone and His statement that the establishment of the kingdom was near and at hand by saying "the time is fulfilled' is more than proof there is not a 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week, which means there is no pre-trib rapture.

 

I  don't want any  opinion  which "presumes" your pre-trib  interpretation is true thus  imposing  it on the scriptures to prove it true.  I believe scripture in Daniel 9 reads straight through.  I believe Jesus was the Messiah cut off in the midst of the week and Jesus early ministry started at the beginning of the 70th week (Mark 1:15 when Jesus said "the time is fulfilled"; the kingdom of God is at hand." Using common sense, He walked the earth 3.5 years.

 

Further, I'd like to know how is it that the first 69 weeks is about the Messiah, but then it abruptly changes to the "antichrist" since there is nothing in Daniel which says that the "antichrist" puts an end to sacrifices?

 

Also, I'd like to know once the sacrifices were ended with Jesus' crucifixion ,and when the temple was destroyed in 70AD, where does it say that they would ever continue, so someone else would put an end to the sacrifices too?   Where is the scriptural proof?  I have a very difficult time believing that the "he in Daniel 9:27 is different from the Messiah spoken of in Daniel 9:26.

 

Can I suggest you read these verses in Hebrew. When you do, you will see your interpretation is off. For instance, verse 27 is clear that it is an abomination that stops the sacrifice in the temple. What abomination are you suggesting that Jesus committed to stop the sacrifice? Lastly, I'm not pre-trip, so please don't throw that accusation at me.

 

P.S. The anti-Christ is first found in verse 26 not 27.

 

 

No the antichrist is not found in verse 26. Anyone can say anything is in the Bible, but my Bible does not read antichrist in vs. 26.That is an unproven theory and  assumption. 

 

You nicely dodged all the questions I have presented which proves what I have said,  which leads me to believe that you have no scriptural evidence to answer any of my questions.    <<< removed personal attack >>>   And yes, I have referenced with the Greek/Hebrew Concordance.  I probably have done as much, or more research on Daniel 9:24-27 as you, so please don't imply that I haven't and suggest that I read this or that.

 

 

 

What abomination are you suggesting that Jesus committed to stop the sacrifice?

 

huh?  I never said Jesus committed any abomination.  I cannot help but  notice you took one word out of a whole passage and distorted what I said, or perhaps you do not understand what I said.   I think you need to read the prophecy in it's in entirety and then refer to my questions in lieu of picking out words to distort a passage. 

 

Honestly, I am getting tired of repeating myself.  You may not be pre trib, but your opinions are based upon those set by pre-trib teachers, who also cannot answer the  valid  questions that searching people ask rather than to take some man's teaching as fact.    

 

I would also appreciate it if you  are going to make scriptural claims, please put the scriptures up as I have done, and point to the scriptures where it says what you are saying.    Otherwise, it is worthless to discuss this with you. 

 

I made a suggestion, very politely. Also, I'm somebody different than you were talking to, next time make sure you realize who your talking to.  You want scripture...I will get back to this thread with just that.

Edited November 18, 2013 by GoldenEagle
<<< Edited out counter personal attack please follow the ToS. >>>

[nikki1]

Nice... change the subject.  Avoid my questions.  I could say the same about you, but instead I will give you more scripture to disprove:

 

The overspreading of the abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate Daniel 9:27

 

This passage  refers to the end of Jerusalem and its sanctuary as a result of wars.

 

When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:) (16) Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:  Matthew 24:15

 

(Mark 13:14) But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:  Mark 13:14

 

These clearly speak of the destruction of Jerusalem in the days of Titus in 70 AD, and the trodden down of Jerusalem by the Gentiles from wars, including the Islamics, who put the Dome of The Rock on the Temple Mount.  Mark 13:14 refers to "it" standing in the Holy Place.  Since when is "antichrist" called an "it?"

 

Of course pre-trib teachers don't believe this because it doesn't fit in with a pre-trib rapture theory, so they created the gap theory.

[firestormx]

Nice... change the subject.  Avoid my questions.  I could say the same about you, but instead I will give you more scripture to disprove:

 

The overspreading of the abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate Daniel 9:27

 

This passage  refers to the end of Jerusalem and its sanctuary as a result of wars.

 

When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:) (16) Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:  Matthew 24:15

 

(Mark 13:14) But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:  Mark 13:14

 

These clearly speak of the destruction of Jerusalem in the days of Titus in 70 AD.

 

Of course pre-trib teachers don't believe this because it doesn't fit in with a pre-trib rapture theory, so they created the gap theory.

I am not Montana marv. That's who you were talking to, I am someone different. But you want your verses don't you? It don't matter if you have offended someone who just walked in to the conversation. You want your verses, see my next post.

[firestormx]

Nice... change the subject.  Avoid my questions.  I could say the same about you, but instead I will give you more scripture to disprove:

 

The overspreading of the abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate Daniel 9:27

 

This passage  refers to the end of Jerusalem and its sanctuary as a result of wars.

 

When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:) (16) Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:  Matthew 24:15

 

(Mark 13:14) But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:  Mark 13:14

 

These clearly speak of the destruction of Jerusalem in the days of Titus in 70 AD.

 

Of course pre-trib teachers don't believe this because it doesn't fit in with a pre-trib rapture theory, so they created the gap theory.

You want your verses, so be it. I will write this knowing that it is the Holy Spirit who reproves sin and changes the heart ( John16:8 ) And not me. 

 

Daniel 9: 26-27

 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

First I want you to notice the part of the verse I bolded. The people who would destroy Jerusalem and the temple would have a Prince that is yet to come. That is what the bible says.  I say yet to come because it doesn't say come back. It doesn't say return, it says that shall come. Look at it in Greek, Hebrew, Latin or English. It all says the same thing. The prince of the people that destroys Jerusalem and the temple has not come yet but will.  This is who verse 27 is talking about. Well, first things first. Who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD?  Who is the people spoken about in this verse? Was it the Jews? No, It was the Romans! The Romans are the people that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, which means they are the people of the prince yet to come spoken about in the verse, and the Prince can't be Jesus because he has already come once and been cut off.

 

Now before I get into verse 27, I need to post some other verses about the same time and event.

 

Daniel 11:30-32

 

For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

 

³¹ And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

³² And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

 

Now before I post the other verses, let's talk about these. Talking about the same event. Notice how the bible makes a difference between The Holy Covenant and the covenant.  The difference is the Holy covenant is between us and God, and the other covenant is just between man. That's why one is called the Holy covenant and the other is not. the covenant in these verses called just the covenant is talking about the same covenant that was made with many in 9:27.  Also notice the word pollute. That means when the abomination that causes desolation takes place it defiles the temple. It pollutes it. Notice also the end of that same verse that the abomination that causes desolation is Placed in the temple. It's not a act by a person away from the temple, it's not the destruction of the temple. They place the abomination that causes desolation in the temple. Last thing about these verses, if you read right into chapter 12, it shows you it leads right into the end. If the 70 weeks were already finished then Daniel 12 would have happened already. Now let's look at what Jesus had to say directly.

 

Matthew 24:15-31

 

     When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

²³ Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

²⁶ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

²⁷ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

²⁸ For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Now first things first, What was it you said? There was no mention of a 2000 year gap in Daniel? Well, there isn't one here. Read the verses, this is even more clear than Daniel was, and it's spoken directly by Christ. After the abomination of Desolations ( Matt. 24:15 ) is the return of Christ ( matt. 24:31 ). No time gap of 2000 years is mentioned. Daniel  9 makes clear the abomination of desolations takes place in the 70th week. Jesus talks about it as though it had not happened yet and was going to happen in the future. Also Jesus makes clear that it will be a pivotal event that happens right before his return.

 

There are your verses. If the 70 weeks were complete then Jesus would have already returned.

Edited November 18, 2013 by firestormx

[Montana Marv]

nikki1

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to:  complete the six tasks.  Who are Daniels people and his holy city?

 

Or some put it another way:  Seventy sevens are decreed for the Messiah to:  complete the six tasks.  So it appears that Christ has 490 years to do this decree.  Amazing   The thing is that sin still exists,  transgressions still exist.   Christ died at the end of the 69th week.  To say that Christ fulfilled this prophecy opens a can of worms,  some say the 3 1/2 years of His Ministry ended at the mid point of the 70th week.  Another can of worms, what happened during the 3 1/2 years after He Died on the Cross.  None of these senerios (time frames) meets the criteria of the 70 weeks.

 

A prophecy must be 100 percent accurate.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[nikki1]

nikki1

 

Dan 9:24 - Seventy sevens are decreed for your people and your holy city to:  complete the six tasks.  Who are Daniels people and his holy city?

 

Or some put it another way:  Seventy sevens are decreed for the Messiah to:  complete the six tasks.  So it appears that Christ has 490 years to do this decree.  Amazing   The thing is that sin still exists,  transgressions still exist.   Christ died at the end of the 69th week.  To say that Christ fulfilled this prophecy opens a can of worms,  some say the 3 1/2 years of His Ministry ended at the mid point of the 70th week.  Another can of worms, what happened during the 3 1/2 years after He Died on the Cross.  None of these senerios (time frames) meets the criteria of the 70 weeks.

 

A prophecy must be 100 percent accurate.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

 

 

 

Nice... change the subject.  Avoid my questions.  I could say the same about you, but instead I will give you more scripture to disprove:

 

The overspreading of the abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate Daniel 9:27

 

This passage  refers to the end of Jerusalem and its sanctuary as a result of wars.

 

When you therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoever reads, let him understand:) (16) Then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains:  Matthew 24:15

 

(Mark 13:14) But when you shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that reads understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:  Mark 13:14

 

These clearly speak of the destruction of Jerusalem in the days of Titus in 70 AD.

 

Of course pre-trib teachers don't believe this because it doesn't fit in with a pre-trib rapture theory, so they created the gap theory.

You want your verses, so be it. I will write this knowing that it is the Holy Spirit who reproves sin and changes the heart ( John16:8 ) And not me. 

 

Daniel 9: 26-27

 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

²⁷ And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

First I want you to notice the part of the verse I bolded. The people who would destroy Jerusalem and the temple would have a Prince that is yet to come. That is what the bible says.  I say yet to come because it doesn't say come back. It doesn't say return, it says that shall come. Look at it in Greek, Hebrew, Latin or English. It all says the same thing. The prince of the people that destroys Jerusalem and the temple has not come yet but will.  This is who verse 27 is talking about. Well, first things first. Who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD?  Who is the people spoken about in this verse? Was it the Jews? No, It was the Romans! The Romans are the people that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, which means they are the people of the prince yet to come spoken about in the verse, and the Prince can't be Jesus because he has already come once and been cut off.

 

Now before I get into verse 27, I need to post some other verses about the same time and event.

 

Daniel 11:30-32

 

For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

 

³¹ And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

³² And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

 

Now before I post the other verses, let's talk about these. Talking about the same event. Notice how the bible makes a difference between The Holy Covenant and the covenant.  The difference is the Holy covenant is between us and God, and the other covenant is just between man. That's why one is called the Holy covenant and the other is not. the covenant in these verses called just the covenant is talking about the same covenant that was made with many in 9:27.  Also notice the word pollute. That means when the abomination that causes desolation takes place it defiles the temple. It pollutes it. Notice also the end of that same verse that the abomination that causes desolation is Placed in the temple. It's not a act by a person away from the temple, it's not the destruction of the temple. They place the abomination that causes desolation in the temple. Last thing about these verses, if you read right into chapter 12, it shows you it leads right into the end. If the 70 weeks were already finished then Daniel 12 would have happened already. I know, you don't believe me, Let's see if you will believe Jesus.

 

Matthew 24:15-31

 

     When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

¹⁶ Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

¹⁷ Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

¹⁸ Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

¹⁹ And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

²⁰ But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

²¹ For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

²² And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

²³ Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

²⁴ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

²⁵ Behold, I have told you before.

²⁶ Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

²⁷ For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

²⁸ For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

²⁹ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

³⁰ And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

³¹ And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

Now first things first, What was it you said? There was no mention of a 2000 year gap in Daniel? Well, there isn't one here. Read the verses, this is even more clear than Daniel was, and it's spoken directly by Christ. After the abomination of Desolations ( Matt. 24:15 ) is the return of Christ ( matt. 24:31 ). No time gap of 2000 years is mentioned. Daniel  9 makes clear the abomination of desolations takes place in the 70th week. Jesus talks about it as though it had not happened yet and was going to happen in the future. Also Jesus makes clear that it will be a pivotal event that happens right before his return.

 

There are your verses. If the 70 weeks were complete then Jesus would have already returned.

 

 

 

firestormix:

 

Before I address anything else in your post, I will first refute your first point and show where you are in error:

 

 

 

First I want you to notice the part of the verse I bolded. The people who would destroy Jerusalem and the temple would have a Prince that is yet to come. That is what the bible says.  I say yet to come because it doesn't say come back. It doesn't say return, it says that shall come. Look at it in Greek, Hebrew, Latin or English. It all says the same thing. The prince of the people that destroys Jerusalem and the temple has not come yet but will.  This is who verse 27 is talking about. Well, first things first. Who destroyed Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD?  Who is the people spoken about in this verse? Was it the Jews? No, It was the Romans! The Romans are the people that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple, which means they are the people of the prince yet to come spoken about in the verse, and the Prince can't be Jesus because he has already come once and been cut off.

 

 

It was not the Romans who destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple, even tho the Roman commanders ordered the destruction under Titus. It pays to do your research.  For this reason, I am going to put up a short article for you to read on the true evidence: 

 

Why would anyone think it was Jesus?  That's absurd.

 

There is  overwhelming evidence, not only from ancient historians but also modern day scholarship points us to ethnic identity of the “Roman” peoples that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. They were the ancestors of the Muslim peoples that dominate the entire region today.  Read this

[firestormx]

There is  overwhelming evidence, not only from ancient historians but also modern day scholarship points us to ethnic identity of the “Roman” peoples that destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple. They were the ancestors of the Muslim peoples that dominate the entire region today.  Read this

I read some of the article you listed. I am not going to debate historical opinion. It doesn't change the overall point. They were a part of the roman army. They destroyed the temple and the city of Jerusalem. The people who destroyed the city and the temple whatever there ethnic background, are the people of the Prince that confirms the covenant with many, whom most also call the anti-Christ. The point is the same.

 

 

By the way, after all your comments to me about responding with scripture, I would appreciate it if you would do the same.

Edited November 18, 2013 by firestormx