Split: One... Fear of hell as motivation for serving God?

[Guest man]

Here's another look from a different angle.

 

 

Luke 12

4"And I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do.

5But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear Him who, after He has killed, has power to cast into hell; yes, I say to you, fear Him!

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

I think Shiloh made the distinction quite well...

 

 

 

There two different connotations for fear presented in that verse.  We are told not to be afraid of those who kill the body.  But the fear mentioned in the second half is speaking of reverence for God.  We are not being told to be afraid of or to live terrified of God, but to live in godly fear or reverence for Him.

 

 

 

 

Are those connotations real or imagined?

 

 

Matthew 10

28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

 

There is nothing in that verse to indicate a difference in the meaning of the word "fear".

 

"Do not fear those...But rather fear Him..."  Same meaning.

 

What is your reasoning for believing the meanings are different?

 

And please don't take offense, but I'm asking you, not shiloh. 

 

 

My reasoning is the same as Shiloh. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

 

Matthew 10 (NKJ)

28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

From: http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/matthew/10.html

The Greek

καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι: φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

 

The Literal tranlation

And lest ye-might-have-been-feareed-unto off of-the-ones of-killing-off to-the-one to-a-body, to-the-one moreover to-a-breathing lest of-abling to-have-killed-off; ye-should-fearee-unto moreover more-such to-the-one to-abling and to-a-breathing and to-a-body to-have-destructed-off in unto-a-geenna.

 

 

The first connotation of fear is we're told not to be afraid of people who can kill us - they are merely human.

 

 

 

The second time fear is mentioned it is speaking of a reverence out of love for our Holy God. This concept is found in passages of Scripture but the first one that comes to mind is Proverbs 9:10.

Proverbs 9:10 (NJKV)

¹⁰ The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

 

From: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2809.htm

Hebrew

י  תְּחִלַּת חָכְמָה, יִרְאַת יְהוָה;    וְדַעַת קְדֹשִׁים בִּינָה.

 

As we discover in Proverbs 9:10 from an examination of the Hebrew word yare’ ( or to fear), the idea of fear in Hebrew thought is connected with ahav (tor o love). And in other words to fear God with love not with dread or terror. 

 

 

There two different connotations for fear presented in that verse in Matthew 10 (and even in Luke 12).  We are told not to be afraid of those who kill the body.  But the fear mentioned in the second half is speaking of reverence for God.  We are not being told to be afraid of or to live terrified of God, but to live in godly fear or reverence for Him out of love which is an Old Testamen principle as found in Proverbs 9:10.  When Jesus spoke these words to the hearers of the day (Hebrews) I imagine they would've understood this.

 

Is this clearer brother? Do you understand my perspective (and by extension Shiloh's)?

God bless,

GE

Edited November 15, 2013 by GoldenEagle

[nebula]

Matthew 10 (NKJ)

28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

From: http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/matthew/10.html

The Greek

καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι: φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

 

The Literal tranlation

And lest ye-might-have-been-feareed-unto off of-the-ones of-killing-off to-the-one to-a-body, to-the-one moreover to-a-breathing lest of-abling to-have-killed-off; ye-should-fearee-unto moreover more-such to-the-one to-abling and to-a-breathing and to-a-body to-have-destructed-off in unto-a-geenna.

 

 

No wonder we have so many different Bible translations. How does one make sense of that ?

 

 

Sorry for the divergence. No back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Guest man]

 

Matthew 10 (NKJ)

28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

From: http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/matthew/10.html

The Greek

καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι: φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

 

The Literal tranlation

And lest ye-might-have-been-feareed-unto off of-the-ones of-killing-off to-the-one to-a-body, to-the-one moreover to-a-breathing lest of-abling to-have-killed-off; ye-should-fearee-unto moreover more-such to-the-one to-abling and to-a-breathing and to-a-body to-have-destructed-off in unto-a-geenna.

 

 

 

 

No wonder we have so many different Bible translations. How does one make sense of that ?

 

 

 

 

My thoughts exactly. 

[missmuffet]

 

Matthew 10 (NKJ)

28And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

 

From: http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/matthew/10.html

The Greek

καὶ μὴ φοβηθῆτε ἀπὸ τῶν ἀποκτεινόντων τὸ σῶμα τὴν δὲ ψυχὴν μὴ δυναμένων ἀποκτεῖναι: φοβεῖσθε δὲ μᾶλλον τὸν δυνάμενον καὶ ψυχὴν καὶ σῶμα ἀπολέσαι ἐν γεέννῃ.

 

The Literal tranlation

And lest ye-might-have-been-feareed-unto off of-the-ones of-killing-off to-the-one to-a-body, to-the-one moreover to-a-breathing lest of-abling to-have-killed-off; ye-should-fearee-unto moreover more-such to-the-one to-abling and to-a-breathing and to-a-body to-have-destructed-off in unto-a-geenna.

 

 

No wonder we have so many different Bible translations. How does one make sense of that ?

 

 

Sorry for the divergence. No back to our regularly scheduled program.

 

YES......

[Guest man]

 

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

 

"And lest ye might have been feareed unto off of the ones of killing off to the one to a body to the one moreover to a breathing lest of abling to have killed off ye should fearee unto moreover more such to the one to abling and to a breathing and to a body to have destructed off in unto a qeenna."

 

 

 

Really?   

 

 

 

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

 

"And lest ye might have been feareed unto off of the ones of killing off to the one to a body to the one moreover to a breathing lest of abling to have killed off ye should fearee unto moreover more such to the one to abling and to a breathing and to a body to have destructed off in unto a qeenna."

 

 

 

Really?   

 

 

 

 

 

You are taking what I say out of context... I said my reasoning was the same as Shiloh's and I didn't understand why it was so hard to understand it. Instead of responding to my actual post you chose one sentence to fixate on and took the question out of context. I can count at least 15 posts (17 apparently) about this one passage. If you do not see this passage in the same manner that is fine brother. Perhaps we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

 

I'm splitting this thread so the discussion regarding the OP isn't derailed further.

This is what Shiloh said... which I thought was a good explanation as I said.

 

 

 

There two different connotations for fear presented in that verse.  We are told not to be afraid of those who kill the body.  But the fear mentioned in the second half is speaking of reverence for God.  We are not being told to be afraid of or to live terrified of God, but to live in godly fear or reverence for Him.

 

 

You wanted to know what I though specifically. I gave you a pretty clear response and you have chosen not to respond to it. That is fine and your prerogative. If you take out the Scripture passages I quoted this is my response.

 

 

My reasoning is the same as Shiloh. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

 

The first connotation of fear is we're told not to be afraid of people who can kill us - they are merely human.

 

The second time fear is mentioned it is speaking of a reverence out of love for our Holy God. This concept is found in passages of Scripture but the first one that comes to mind is Proverbs 9:10.

 

As we discover in Proverbs 9:10 from an examination of the Hebrew word yare’ ( or to fear), the idea of fear in Hebrew thought is connected with ahav (tor o love). And in other words to fear God with love not with dread or terror. 

 

 

There two different connotations for fear presented in that verse in Matthew 10 (and even in Luke 12).  We are told not to be afraid of those who kill the body.  But the fear mentioned in the second half is speaking of reverence for God.  We are not being told to be afraid of or to live terrified of God, but to live in godly fear or reverence for Him out of love which is an Old Testamen principle as found in Proverbs 9:10.  When Jesus spoke these words to the hearers of the day (Hebrews) I imagine they would've understood this.

 

Is this clearer brother? Do you understand my perspective (and by extension Shiloh's)?

 

 

Perhaps the literal translation and Greek were a bit of a distraction.

 

We can discuss this further in this split thread if you'd like. Care to respond to my post?

 

God bless,

GE

[Guest man]

We can discuss this further in this split thread if you'd like. Care to respond to my post?

 

God bless,

GE

 

 

 

I think I'll pass. 

[bfloydo]

I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

 

"And lest ye might have been feareed unto off of the ones of killing off to the one to a body to the one moreover to a breathing lest of abling to have killed off ye should fearee unto moreover more such to the one to abling and to a breathing and to a body to have destructed off in unto a qeenna."

 

 

 

Really?   

 

 

 

 

You are taking what I say out of context... I said my reasoning was the same as Shiloh's and I didn't understand why it was so hard to understand it. Instead of responding to my actual post you chose one sentence to fixate on and took the question out of context. I can count at least 15 posts (17 apparently) about this one passage. If you do not see this passage in the same manner that is fine brother. Perhaps we'll simply have to agree to disagree.

 

I'm splitting this thread so the discussion regarding the OP isn't derailed further.

This is what Shiloh said... which I thought was a good explanation as I said.

 

 

There two different connotations for fear presented in that verse.  We are told not to be afraid of those who kill the body.  But the fear mentioned in the second half is speaking of reverence for God.  We are not being told to be afraid of or to live terrified of God, but to live in godly fear or reverence for Him.

 

You wanted to know what I though specifically. I gave you a pretty clear response and you have chosen not to respond to it. That is fine and your prerogative. If you take out the Scripture passages I quoted this is my response.

 

 

My reasoning is the same as Shiloh. I'm not sure why this is so hard to understand?

 

The first connotation of fear is we're told not to be afraid of people who can kill us - they are merely human.

 

The second time fear is mentioned it is speaking of a reverence out of love for our Holy God. This concept is found in passages of Scripture but the first one that comes to mind is Proverbs 9:10.

 

As we discover in Proverbs 9:10 from an examination of the Hebrew word yare’ ( or to fear), the idea of fear in Hebrew thought is connected with ahav (tor o love). And in other words to fear God with love not with dread or terror. 

 

 

There two different connotations for fear presented in that verse in Matthew 10 (and even in Luke 12).  We are told not to be afraid of those who kill the body.  But the fear mentioned in the second half is speaking of reverence for God.  We are not being told to be afraid of or to live terrified of God, but to live in godly fear or reverence for Him out of love which is an Old Testamen principle as found in Proverbs 9:10.  When Jesus spoke these words to the hearers of the day (Hebrews) I imagine they would've understood this.

 

Is this clearer brother? Do you understand my perspective (and by extension Shiloh's)?

 

Perhaps the literal translation and Greek were a bit of a distraction.

 

We can discuss this further in this split thread if you'd like. Care to respond to my post?

 

God bless,

GE

Seems like this verse nullifies discussion of fear, except in the context of perfecting our own Love of God...not having perfect love should be our one and only fear.

1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

[GoldenEagle]

Seems like this verse nullifies discussion of fear, except in the context of perfecting our own Love of God...not having perfect love should be our one and only fear.

1 John 4:18 "There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love."

 

Amen!