Can every Believer be rich/blessed/favored/speak-in-tongues/be healed?

[Guest shiloh357]

And if God is not our servant why did Jesus say He had NOT come to be served, but to serve (us)? He is God and He said He came to serve US. God says in the Scriptures, that concerning My sons and daughters, command ye Me. And then He expects us to serve others as we follow His example. God didn't serve us one time and then say, that's it, He does it everyday. Jesus and His Word is the very force holding everyTHING together, you don't think that's daily service, beyond everything He said He would do for us according to the Covenants of Promise?

 

Wow.   I mean, WOW.   I honestly never thought I'd see the day when someone would come on and declare so blatantly that God is his servant.   Let's look at the two Scripture passages you have eluded to, directly.

 

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many. Mar 10:45

 

Jesus was not claiming to be our servant.  The context of that verse centers around a selfish request made by James and John to be granted to sit on Jesus' right and left hand in the Kingdom.   Jesus addresses this problem by drawing a distinctino between how the world esteems greatness vs. how greatness is esteemed in the Kingdom of God.   Jesus claims that He came not to be ministered or "serve" as it is in the original Greek but to serve (His Father)  Jesus came to earth to serve the will of HIs Father because that is how it is in the Kingdom. He came to serve the Father by giving Himself as a ransom, in order to pay the "slave price" for our freedom from the slavery of sin.   Jesus was not claiming to be the servant of man.   Your exegesis of that verse is way, way, way off.

 

You have also alluded to  Isaiah 45:11. Let's look at that in context:

 

Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the LORD have created it. Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands? Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth? Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

Isa 45:8-11

 

The last part of verse 11 should read as a question in the light of what precedes and as a question fits the spirit of the text.  

 

Essentially it would read, "are you asking me what I purpose in the future concerning my sons or do you command me concerning the work of my hands.?"   He is basically asking, "what right do you have to question me?"  

 

 

If a business says, here are all the things we'll do for you by entering into to covenant with you, and then you make a demand on some of those things, or ALL of them listed, don't you expect them to perform them as promised? Paul pointed out that even among MEN, covenants cannot be broken or refused, how MUCH MORE the Covenant of Blood Jesus made for us between Himself and the Father? God didn't make the Covenant for HIS benefit, it's for YOU. He doesn't have any needs, YOU do. The Covenant is for you, start calling it to come to pass and see for yourself what happens when you LIVE by faith (as the just are called to do). You'll be filled with joy

 

That analogy doesn't work because God is not in covenant with us.  Your analogy assumes some obligation on God's part to us and He has no obligation to us, to do anything for us.   The other problem lies in the fact that you misrepresent the nature of the covenant, as well.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

 

Again, God never calls you to "moderate" finances, He calls you to be rich. It's your choice if you want to answer that call, but it's on every Believer. I was once homeless, now I am blessed, prosperous - standing on the Word and receiving and learning how to use the Scriptures and get what God has promised me according to Galatians 3:29. His Word works, if you'll work it. I am living proof. What I have has come by God's hand, not by any man. Just like Abraham.

 

The fact is that God has not called anyone to be rich.  God regulates the behavior of rich people, but there is no "call" anywhere in the Bible for someone to be rich.

 

As for Galatians 3:29, you still have not caught on to the fact that the promise mentioned in that verse has NOTHING to do with prosperity.  It is has to do with the promise made to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations.  You simply and blindly parrot terminology and you are not paying attention to what the Bible actually says those words mean.  There is blessing of prosperity anywhere in Galatians three.  That doesn't even fit the context of the chapter or of the book itself.   Paul is dealing with Judaizing heresy in that church.  He is not addressing the issue of poverty.

 

 

shiloh357

 

LASTLY:

The call came in Genesis 1:28 and was given to all those who were formerly outside the bloodline of Abraham in Galatians 3:13-14 and 29. We are all called to be rich. What Prince is not rich like the King? What Ambassador does not drive/wear/eat the BEST? In the world, which is run by the Devil, the ambassadors all wear, eat and drive and live in the best, and now in the Kingdom of God's Dear Son that we have been translated into (Colossians), we are called Ambassadors of the KING OF KINGS, how could it possibly follow that we do not therefore (not as an end, but as a matter of rank and privelege conferred by unmerited favor) eat/drive/wear/live in the BEST?

 

You had said before that Jesus was NOT like us, by the way, but in Philippians 2 it says "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man..."

So Jesus own Word says HE was MADE in the likeness of men, in the same way that Adam and Eve were made in the likeness of God the Father. And Jesus was found in FASHION (again, made) as a MAN, not God...

 

So Jesus has said He did everything He did as a MAN, as the Son of Man, not as God. After all, it was a MAN that lost everything for us to the Devil and it had to legally be a MAN that would get it back. Jesus was the only Man the same as Adam was at the beginning, being without the sin nature that entered the DNA of us all.

 

Galatians 3:14 after Paul mentions the blessing of Abraham (which is THE blessing, and Proverbs 10:22 says "The Blessing of the Lord maketh RICH, and He addeth no sorrow (Hebrew for toil) with it"), he says the promise of the Spirit. You think that means being the father of many nations, you are wrong: it is in Romans 4:13 that says Abraham was heir of the whole world.

[Guest shiloh357]

Starting here, I don't follow a "movement", I go by the Bible. The most Scripturally accurate church I have found is the Word of Faith church.

 

 

Fair enough.  But it doesn't change the egregious nature of your error or theirs.

 

 

I think you see them backwards. First of all, WHERE is it written that you SHALL NOT have prosperity? Scripturally, WHY do you insist you cannot have prosperity as a Believer? Based on what precisely? And, HOW does the attribute of prosperity make the Gospel false? The entire Old Covenant was about God blessing His people if they obeyed and loading them up with material prosperity, if the NEW Covenant is a better covenant based on better terms, then how could anyone say we suddenly LOSE prosperity and suffer poverty or "moderation" only for the duration of the New Covenant. If God took care of His people materially and prospered them greatly all over the Old Covenant, then by definition (according to Hebrews and other places) in the NEW Covenant WE HAVE TO PROSPER, even MORE than in the Old Covenant, both PHYSICALLY AND SPIRITUALLY

 

 

In the first place, I did not insist that one cannot have prosperity as a believer.  I never made that claim, nor did I say that God is against us being rich. Secondly, the prosperity gospel is a false gospel precisely because the desire to be wealthy, to have a bigger house, better car, fancy clothes is not something limited to believers.   One doesn't have to be born again and become a believer to believe the prosperity gospel.

 

Yes the OT does promise material prosperity to Israel if they obeyed. I am not disputing that.   The problem is that you are trying take conditional promises based on obedience in the OT economy and make them unconditional gifts of grace in the NT economy.   You are taking promises that were made to a particular nation and you making them universal for all believers and you have no permission from Scripture to universalize the particular.  

 

And yes, the book of Hebrews does say that we have a better covenant based on better promises, but the problem is that your one-dimensional thinking forces you to interpret everything through lens of material prosperity.  We have a better covenant and better promises on the grounds that we have a better sacrifice, better blood and a better High Priest.   The contrast being made is the temporary nature of the sacrifice of animals vs. the superior and permanent one-and-for-all sin offering of Jesus.  The covenant is better because we don't have to keep offering up sacrifices for our sins on a regular continual basis.  We have a once-for-all-time covenant with a once-for-all-time, final sin offering.  The writer of Hebrews doesn't have material prosperity in view.

 

 

Secondly, I don't see what you mean by saying you can be a sinner and enjoy the same things that come with prosperity as a Believer can - what is the point of saying that?

 

 

Sinners want to be rich, too. They want the whole package where prosperity is concerned. They want better houses, better families, more money, a secure financial future, happiness, fancy vacations, fancy clothes, etc.   The message of prosperity doesn't offer anything that a sinner can't get on his own without God. That's what makes your theology a false gospel that all Christians should reject.

[Guest shiloh357]

NEXT,

Show in the Scriptures where it is written "that a minister of the Gospel should live a modest and moderate life" - that's an opinion, not God's Word.

Jesus wore SEAMLESS garments, do you know how EXPENSIVE that was in His day? That's a preacher wearing the best of the best, wasn't anything better. Jesus didn't correct that woman who poured out a bottle of nard on His feet that was worth TONS of money; when His disciples moaned about how that could have been sold and the money given to the poor, Jesus said she did a good thing by dumping it out on Him - if that had happened today, many would have criticized Jesus just like His disciples for the "misuse" of ministry resources (He could have stopped her after all).

 

Titus 1:8 tells us that a bBishop (Pastor) among other things needs to be "temperate" which is a KJV word for self-controlled or moderate.  In fact, self-control is fruit of the spirit.  That is what makes us moderate in our enjoyment of God's blessings.  No one is suggesting that we have to be dirt poor, but the extravegance and opulance that characterizes certain ministries the constant fixation on money and wealth is grotesque and sickening and unbiblical.  

 

Actually Jesus' garment wasn't that expensive. It would be no different than someone wearing a coat and tie, today.  Most anyone can afford that.  You're kind of overstating and exaggerating.   As for the woman who poured out the nard on Jesus' feet...  Yes it was very expensive.   But you need to understand what it was.   It was a small container she wore around her neck as a necklace.  She would dab a litte of it on her neck to advertise herself to men on the street, as it was very aromatic.    When she came to Jesus and poured it on his feet, it was a costly sacrifice.   She was pouring her life out,  She was symboically pouring out her life, giving it up to Jesus.  That is why Jesus said she did a good thing.   Jesus wasn't praising her for pouring perfume on Him, per se, as much as He was acknowledging the immensity her commitment to Him.

 

Jesus also paid the room and board for his 12, plus the 70 part timers and who knows how many others. He had plenty built up over just 3 years of sowing and reaping. Jesus was no bum.

 

So what?  I didn't say that Jesus was poor.  Jesus was an itinerant Rabbi meaning He would have had a second vocatoin, probably as a carpenter.  Most Rabbis were bi-vocational.  Given that Peter was married, he probably also continued to work as  fisherman to support His wife.  The disciples would all have had other vocations. They simply didn't just walk around the hills of Judea and sleep in the grass.  So that they had money and were able to support themselves is to be expected.   To use that as  a case for the prosperity gospel really doesn't hold up.

 

If God's perfect will was Adam and Eve to have no needs and rather have EVERY want met in the Garden of Eden (which means house of pleasures) then why would God later come and try to get everyone to downgrade and live way below their inheritance and potential? What parent says, boy, I sure hope my kids don't make a lot of money one day, I really hope they stick to a level of financial moderation, having only just enough, I wouldn't want them to be able pay off church buildings or buy ABC/NBC/CBS/CNN and turn those stations into godly networks producing only godly shows to influence our country, and I sure wouldn't want them being able to pay off other Believer's debts and buy them cars and pay for food to feed 10 million starving children! My God, if the Church had that kind of money, what would happen to people?

 

Think of the Billions and Billions of dollars that are sent into ministries that end up going into minister's bank accounts and purchasing mansions, Bently and Porsche automobiles, and fleets of personal jets, and the most expensive clothes on the markets.  How many doctors could we send to other countries on the money that is lining the pockets of so-called "preachers?"   How  many peoples' lives could have been saved with the food that could have been purchased with the millions spent on Benny Hinn's private jet(s)?   How many Bibles could have been printed and sent to nations and parts of the world that have no Bibles?   How much relief could we have brought to brothers and sisters who are living in poverty and persecution in Muslim countries and other countries around the world?   I mean so much money that has gone to simply make some preachers rich could have been used for REAL ministry and now those opportunities have been lost.

 

 

Your love walk is totally hindered by not having an abundance of money/resources.

 

No it's not.  My love walk is hindered by pride, selfishness, bitterness, unforgiveness, but it has never been hindered by not having abundant money.

 

 

Why did Paul write about offerings in 2 Cor 9:6-11 about ALWAYS having ALL sufficiency in ALL THINGS SO THAT YOU MAY ABOUND TO EVERY GOOD WORK.

 

But the qualifier is that they have everything needed to abound to every good work.  Paul didn't have western 21st century concepts of personal prosperity in mind  Paul is talking to a church, not to a person.   He is talking about the abundance necessary for ministry.  He is not talking about personal wealth.

 

HOW SELFISH are they insist they shall only have just enough, while so many around them are suffering, when they COULD be believing God and taking Him at His Word for prosperity and even if they want to live in "moderation" be able to sow 10s of 1,000s of dollars into the lives of others and get the Church out of debt and give GOOD things to others. (when you get a gift, do you want a "moderate" gift, or would you appreciate a "best" gift? When you give to the poor, do you give them the worn out, busted junk or stuff that is no longer good enough for you, or do you want to bless them with NICE STUFF they can enjoy? The list goes on and on.)

 

This is something I have noticed about you.   You have to assign values to me that I have not communicated.   You have assigned values to my position that you need in order to have something to knock down. I have not advocated poverty, but you equivocate a call for moderation with claiming that we should all be poor and never have anything nice or not be able to give nice things to other people.  That is a rather dishonest representation of my position.  

 

If a person has a job and they earn $$ millions and decide to buy a 56 room mansion with solid gold hot tubs and a car for every day of the week. That's their business. They can spend what they have earned through their own honesty and hard work as they see fit.

 

But when a preacher is receiving donations (money he didn't earn) from those who are trusting him to use that money for the furtherance of the Gospel and he instead uses that money for a fleet of private jets, when he uses it to spend on a $3 million mansion in LA and wears clothes sold in exclusive boutiques in Hollywood there is a problem.  

 

I find it very hypocritical for those in the prosperity camp to claim that we are hindering the Gospel by not advancing the prosperity doctrine arguing that we need prosperity to send the Gospel around the world, while at the same time defending preachers who take money given by people who earned it and spending it on their own carnal lusts.   What's worse, they argue that they need to drive a Porsche in order to preach the Gospel, or they need a private jet to preach the Gospel.   It is rather disgusting to those of who are watching as people are led astray by false teachers and false prophets.

[Guest shiloh357]

Socialism being run by a government is true, but the citizens have to go along with it; you are making standards that God never said, just like the Pharisees (the so-called godly men of their days) made a bunch of rules that may have seemed holy and good, but God never said and who would have ever thought that Jesus would criticize them for it, saying they made their disciples into twice the sons of hell that they were. These rules made them into sons of hell, meaning they followed the Devil's ideology.

 

There is no place in the Bible that mandates a "financial cut-off" for Believers or Ministers or Apostles/Prophets/Teachers/Evangelists/Pastors. Anyone who follows one is living under a man-made mandate that God never imposed.

Who said anything about a financial cut off?   Moderation and self-control are biblical principles, the fruit of the Spirit  and are commanded to all believers as I have shown in a previous post. 

 

Self-control and self-moderation are part of Paul's principles for ministry:

 

Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar? Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel. But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void. For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! 1Co 9:13-16

 

Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

1Co 9:24-27

 

Paul in the first four verses above acknowledges his right to benefit monetarily from the ministry, but he chooses not to use those rights.  Unlike modern prosperity teachers, Paul values the ministry too much to avail himself of that privilege.   Later in verse 19 Paul considers his reward the ability to preach the Gospel free of charge, obtaining no financial benefit from it whatsoever.  Paul would NEVER beg for money.  Paul earned his own money and funded his missionary journeys by his own hands.  He only took up offerings for other churches and delivered that to them.  He never took donations for himself.

 

In vv. 24-27 above, Paul speaks of discipline and self-control and he uses athletic training as a metaphor for it.  A good athelete is a disciplined athelete who understands the benefit of moderation and self-control.  No champion in the athletic world is ever made any other way.  Paul uses that concept in terms of ministry.  He keeps His body disciplined and under control so that he is not disaqualifed from ministry.

 

 

You cannot have what you preach against, those who rail against prosperity and insist on a self-imposed financial success limit will get exactly what they say, just like God (Proverbs 18:21).

 

I am not against people being prosperous.  I am against the prostitution of Word of God by prosperity preachers who fleece the flock and breathe out false teachings and mislead people simply to line their own pockets. Word of Faith churches have become nothing but a fornication of bricks.

 

 

If you don't want prosperity for yourself, you're selfish (I don't mean this inciendiarily or rudely, just stating a fact), but don't teach others a man-made doctrine of financial limits because you don't want them.

 

Who said I didn't want to prosper?   I simply don't buy into the false teaching that God is here to serve me and for me to demand of Him and command him around.  I don't believe in this silly notion that God is obligated to me to do for me and serve me and give me everything I need and want.   THAT is the textbook definition of selfish, if there ever was one.  The prosperity gospel is predicated on a selfish lust for wealth.

 

 

 

Selfish because as I said above, you cannot do much for the Kingdom of God without money.

 

Fortunately the well-being of the Kingdom doesn't rest on the basis of my finances.   God is the one who does the work.  Jesus fed 15,000 people with five sardines and two crackers.   He doesn't need me to be rich to do His work.  He is not hamstrung by my insufficiency.  He is the one who is sufficient.   My involvement in the Kingdom is not based on my ability;  it is based on my availability.   The money belongs to God, anyway.  He is the provider, not me.  He supplies the need. If it were up to me to have the money, the Kingdom would be in a lot of trouble. 

 

 

How many anointed ministries called into ministry have failed because they couldn't get money? It takes money to purchase or build buildings, it takes money to eat, it takes money to drive/own cars, it takes money to transport goods, it takes money to own a home, EVERYTHING TAKES MONEY, we live in an economic world and this will shock some people, but study it out and see for yourself: Jesus spoke more on money than faith and prayer COMBINED.

 

First of all, I agree that it takes money to function in this world and for ministry to take place.  Missionaries can't live on just air. But again, God is the supplier.  I have complete faith in His ability and willingness to supply, but I do NOT accept the notion that God is obligated to man with regard to anything.    

 

I can see why Jesus preached on money more than anything else.  Money enables the lust of the flesh.  Jesus said a lot about money, but He didn't preach what prosperity preachers teach. 

 

Why should the wicked get all the nice stuff while the Princes and Princesses of the KING get the hand-me-downs and beg for the world's leftovers? That doesn't even make a little bit of sense.

 

 

 

 But our Kingdom is not of this world.   I am laying up treasures in heaven.   The goods of this world pale by comparison.   I don't beg for this world's leftovers because this world's goods don't mean much to me.  I have all I need and also have a little more.   Jesus has made me whole and fully complete in everything  There is nothing in this world that anyone could offer me that Jesus hasn't already provided.   You and I have different standard of measure where prosperity is concerned. 

 

So again, don't place a cap on your prosperity; God never did, you should be an imitator of God as dear children; placing a cap on your prosperity severely cripples your love walk.

 

 

I don't place a cap on anything.  I simply know the difference between real, biblical prosperity and the counterfeit, flesh-based prosperity that you espouse.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

LASTLY:

The call came in Genesis 1:28 and was given to all those who were formerly outside the bloodline of Abraham in Galatians 3:13-14 and 29. We are all called to be rich. What Prince is not rich like the King? What Ambassador does not drive/wear/eat the BEST? In the world, which is run by the Devil, the ambassadors all wear, eat and drive and live in the best, and now in the Kingdom of God's Dear Son that we have been translated into (Colossians), we are called Ambassadors of the KING OF KINGS, how could it possibly follow that we do not therefore (not as an end, but as a matter of rank and privelege conferred by unmerited favor) eat/drive/wear/live in the BEST?

God commanded Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multply (pro-create) and to have dominion over the rest of the created order.  I don't see a call to be "rich" in that.  As for Galatians 3: 13-14 and 9, again, you are missing what Paul is referring to.  The blessing of and promise to Abraham was that he was to be the father of many nations.  The blessing of Abraham has NOTHING to do with material prosperity.   Abraham was blessed with something that in his culture was more important than riches or wealth.  He had descendents.  We are his descendents by faith in Jesus.  The blessings of Abraham really apply to salvation from sin and our inclusion into Abraham's family on that basis. 

 

Trying to use earthly kingdoms and earthly ambassadors, dignitaries and stuff as being analagous to the Kingdom of God is unwarranted.  We are members of a different kingdom that operates on a different economy than what the world does.  Paul considered himself an ambassador for Christ and yet he had nothing and lived a life of deprivation in many cases.  Paul as an ambassador doesn't really fit the prosperity gospel model and yet they continue to use Paul's words as a justification for the prosperity teaching.  Paul didn't teach or live out the message of the modern prosperity gospel taught in Word of Faith churches, so it is not really appropriate to use his words in  way that he didn't intend.

 

You had said before that Jesus was NOT like us, by the way, but in Philippians 2 it says "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man..."

So Jesus own Word says HE was MADE in the likeness of men, in the same way that Adam and Eve were made in the likeness of God the Father. And Jesus was found in FASHION (again, made) as a MAN, not God...

 

 

So Jesus has said He did everything He did as a MAN, as the Son of Man, not as God. After all, it was a MAN that lost everything for us to the Devil and it had to legally be a MAN that would get it back. Jesus was the only Man the same as Adam was at the beginning, being without the sin nature that entered the DNA of us all.

 

Galatians 3:14 after Paul mentions the blessing of Abraham (which is THE blessing, and Proverbs 10:22 says "The Blessing of the Lord maketh RICH, and He addeth no sorrow (Hebrew for toil) with it"), he says the promise of the Spirit. You think that means being the father of many nations, you are wrong: it is in Romans 4:13 that says Abraham was heir of the whole world.

 

1.  Jesus was not like us and I stand by that.  Phil. 2:5-10 affirms that Jesus was fully human.  But it affirms that Jesus was also fully God.  Note what it said that Jesus "became."   Jesus became a servant, he made himself of no reputation, he became obedient to death on the cross, etc.   Jesus was still fully God while on earth.  He was not simply a man.  Jesus didn't empty himself of His deity.    Paul makes it clear in vv. 5 and 6 that Jesus, during His earthly ministry  didn't consider equality with God something to exploit to his own advantage.   We have no record of Jesus ever performing a miracle for his own benefit.  His power was used for others, not for Himself.    Jesus was more than a sinless man.

 

2.  Yes the blessing of Abraham is THE blessing, but it is not a blessing for material wealth.  It is the blessing of Gentile inclusion by faith in God's plan of salvation.  

 

3.  Proverbs 10:22...  You need to reember that proverbs are not promises; they are general truths.  Riches bring all kinds of problems.  The proverb says that God adds no sorrow  to His blessing. It doesn't say that sorrow (Pain hurt, distress, toil)  doesn't come as a result of the added consequences that riches bring into a person's life.  That is why God doesn't promise to make everyone rich.  Not everyone can handle riches.  God doesn't add any sorrow to wealth, but He doesn't have to.  Wealth brings sorrow all by itself with no help from God.  Besides any can grab a verse from Proverbs a verse from Galatians or whereever, string them together like lights on a Christmas tree and make the Bible appear to say whatever they want it to say.

 

4. Yes, Abraham was promised that he was the father of many nations. In Genesis 22.   But in Romans 4:13 when it says that Abraham was heir of the world, that is Jewish shorthand for saying that it his descendents would succeed on to that promise. But fullness of that promise is still future and won't be realised until the millennial kingdom.

[Joshua-777]

Much love to all,

I totally respect others beliefs and how these beliefs have come into being...We are taken from death to life...I totally respect that God in all His Soverienty is not in "time" and we are...and that some things take longer than others for us to live through and experience...perhaps our hearts need supernatural surgeries, so to speak...to say that anything is not possible goes against God's Word that says: "All things are possible."

 

What I believe is that I can live everything that is in The Bible...everything...and I can have what anyone had...I no longer feel deprived..."coveting"...and I refuse to believe or tell someone that all things aren't possible...What is easier to believe? A God that just picks out certain ones? Or a God that Gives New Life? Just curious...Isn't everything possible?

 

I Know God is Holy...I know His Ways Aren't Our Ways...But By Golly...When You Give Up Your Own Life Just Like Jesus...You Don't Even Look Like Yourself Anymore!!! And By Golly!!! Everything In The Bible is Possible!!! I've seen more supernatural miracles...and grateful...but there was a time when I wondered...Just Because You Haven't Walked In It YET Doesn't Mean It's Not Possible!!!

 

You Haven't Been Healed Yet? Are You Still Believing You Can Be or have you just accepted that you haven't been picked to be healed...Oh my...Do you dare to think that God could work everything for good and entrust you with millions? I think that insults God and everything He did to save us if you don't believe it's possible...I have been on what I thought and what felt like death's door over and over again...only to be brought back to life over and over and over again!!!

 

Yes, I have lived in somewhat of poverty (although-poverty in this country is nothing like others) but nonetheless...I have seen non-believing relatives waste thousands of dollars because they can...and have realized that my condition is totally dependent on God...The Power to get wealth is from God...and believe me having walked from darkness, the natural, into His Light, the spiritual and super-natural, while still on this earth and in this life...I have waited on God to be able to have wealth to help myself and others...Waited on Him for what He wants these hands to do for Him!!! Waited on Him to change my heart concerning money and it's use...I have tried this and that at times...I seen doors close-shut up so tight-that was it!!! I've waited!!! And just today!!! Some know what I've written...And Today Another Piece of The Puzzle Has Been Revealed!!! I Got Word of Something New That Has Been Built in my city (I mean it's like it went up overnight) and I saw this being built like 6 months ago-in my spirit!!! I could see it like a vision and I said it out my mouth!!! This is the venue!!! I have waited on God!!! Oh dear...Tell me...just tell me something...Tell me God is not amongst the living!!! on the earth!!! Healing the sick...Doing this and that...

 

In my humble opinion...If I can't believe anything and everything is possible with God...There is no hope for me!!! And thousands and thousands of others...I've been at this many many years...like I say not a real good Bible Scholar-what happened to me was The Words Would Come out of my mouth or came to my heart and then I would find them in The Bible later...that proved to me that God knew me before I was born...His Words came alive in me the second I was born-again...

 

Again...I humbly respect others beliefs...but please respect my beliefs...because somehow it's real sad when God is put in a box...There is a real difference in The Body...

 

Oh...I have heard testimony where pastors that were very skeptical were anointed with oil and taken to a hospital to lay hands on the sick...I heard every one got up off their sick bed...Testimony from Benny Hinn's mouth...believe it or not...I am happy for the ones healed...They probably started Seeking God with their whole hearts after that...

 

But Jesus looked at them, and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God All Things Are Possible"...Matthew 19:26

 

I can even see in this verse going from carnal or the natural (with men) and into the SuperNatural with God...Amazing...How God can change our hearts and give us a new spirit and we don't think like we used to...we don't have to be conformed to this world...anymore...even while we live here...Much love to you as always In Him...

 

 

Amen

[Sevenseas]

The thing about hearing God's voice is that His voice can be very subjective.

 

God has revealed Himself through His word and hearing outside of that word had better agree with what is written.

 

If you are confused about what is written, well, just what are you actually hearing?

 

Seducing spritis just love to mimic the Holy Spirit.  It's called deception.  

 

On the other hand, the Bible is a sure thing.  But not if you pick and choose verses that have nothing to do with each other in content and context

and then you make a doctrine out of them and tell people that if God does not answer you it is because you do not have enough faith.

 

Faith IN God and in HIS promises is not the same thing as faith in the faith you have.  God does not operate through a formula.

 

So much one could say along those lines, but when you believe it is your own personal faith that makes God jump, I guess it's a bit of a comedown

to settle for "Please merciful and loving Father hear my prayer."  Faith is itself a gift....everything we have that is good is from God and not one

of us has somehow 'earned' a single thing

[Guest]

Jesus said those who are His hear His voice; I can hear God's voice just as surely as anyone following Him can. I hear Him whenever I am listening. I didn't say my words carry the same weight as Scripture - YOU said that. When I said my words are inspired to me, I meant I am hearing what to write. I was even intending to reply to any of this thread but the Lord woke me up at night and put things in front of me and spoke to me about many things the last 3 days, so I am writing them.

 

Twist scripture how you will Rodain, but you'll never sell me on the prosperity gospel. Why? Because its not taught in the Bible, and because I've seen its fruit.

 

Yeah, fruit.

 

In the form of many folks who lost everything in the 2008 . . . were told they didn't "have enough faith" when they ask for help from the so-called churches they attended, and now some are so angry at God that I've dodged punches thrown just because I mentioned Jesus. Yeah, that's right. The so-called preachers just left 'em in dirt when they found out they didn't have the money to tithe any more. I've also seen a prosperity type tell someone who just lost his wife to a particularly long, slow, painful death from cancer that she died because she didn't have enough faith to be healed. It was said in such a cold, off hand manner that I was stunned for a bit and so was everyone else in the room. The jerk got punched out by the husband -- and as far as I'm concerned he deserved it. That kind of thing is just evil, and that's just a couple of examples.

 

Any so-called "revelation" that doesn't match up with the Bible is false. Period. Be careful that the voice you think you hear from the Lord isn't actually coming from somewhere else. God is a Person, not a cosmic slot machine or genie lamp to be rubbed.

[TheCurseOfTheRodain]

Secondly, I don't see what you mean by saying you can be a sinner and enjoy the same things that come with prosperity as a Believer can - what is the point of saying that?

 

Sinners want to be rich, too. They want the whole package where prosperity is concerned. They want better houses, better families, more money, a secure finanical future, happiness, fancy vacations, fancy clothes, etc.   The message of prosperity doesn't offer anything that a sinner can't get on his own without God. That's what makes your theology a false gospel that all Christians should reject.

 

 

The prosperity is for the BELIEVERS, not to attract the sinners (it is a SIGN to the Believers of what God can do if you believe His Word) - you are learning what to do once you have entered into the household of faith. You don't preach prosperity to get people saved, you preach prosperity so that Believers can have a better life. The Gospel doesn't work without entering the Kingdom of God and that only happens through receiving Jesus as your Lord and Savior (Romans 10:9-10)