Question on hell and the second death.

[fruitfull77]

There is no hell right now.

The dead from the past, bad or good,  are in their graves.

when the word "hell" is used many times over in the Bible is means grave or pit. The majority of times the greek word hades is used or Hebrew's " sheof '

2Peter 2:4 uses tartarus which means restrained referring only to the fallen angels.

Gehenna is the only soul killer.

Think of the billions that have died without knowing Christ. Where are they now?

Dante's Inferno is responsible for a lot of misunderstanding.

No one currently dead are being tortured in a hell fire now. That torment is only reserved for Satan and his demons.Matt 25:41

None of our loved ones are suffering right now.

Since we have mortal souls 1 cor 15:53-54 and can perish in Gehenna, only the unrepenting souls will be thrown in and burn up completely.Those saved will become immortal spirits-the others will experience the second death-Rev 20;15 

We can't burn forever unless we are immortal spirits and only satan and his demons are immortal spirits and will be tortured forever.

that's the way I see it.

 

[WillfromTexas]

There is no hell right now.

The dead from the past, bad or good,  are in their graves.

when the word "hell" is used many times over in the Bible is means grave or pit. The majority of times the greek word hades is used or Hebrew's " sheof '

2Peter 2:4 uses tartarus which means restrained referring only to the fallen angels.

Gehenna is the only soul killer.

Think of the billions that have died without knowing Christ. Where are they now?

Dante's Inferno is responsible for a lot of misunderstanding.

No one currently dead are being tortured in a hell fire now. That torment is only reserved for Satan and his demons.Matt 25:41

None of our loved ones are suffering right now.

Since we have mortal souls 1 cor 15:53-54 and can perish in Gehenna, only the unrepenting souls will be thrown in and burn up completely.Those saved will become immortal spirits-the others will experience the second death-Rev 20;15 

We can't burn forever unless we are immortal spirits and only satan and his demons are immortal spirits and will be tortured forever.

that's the way I see it.

 

Satan doesn't have immortality either- only God.  When God finally casts it all into outer darkness all sin including Satan and the fallen angels will cease to exist.

 

1 Timothy 6:16

Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).

 

We are given immortality through Jesus and that is the ONLY way for a human being to become immortal.

 

Where people get messed up is not understanding what makes a living soul.  Your spirit is the breath of life from God and it returns to God at your death.  But it does not contain your thoughts/feelings/personality.  A living soul is the combination of God's breath+the body=you.  Without either one you cease to exist.  The body you have now will be the one you have in Heaven- only glorified.

 

It's jarring to many because mainstream preachers still preach an immortal soul and eternal torment.  For me personally when I first heard about this concept, many years ago,  I thought it couldn't be true.  Yet when you learn the scriptures you find that is exactly the truth.

[missmuffet]

Ever held the hand of someone who has died?The hand instantly becomes lighter.

[Izzel]

When these kinds of topics are raised, rarely is the fullness of the subject ever discussed. We are a threefold being of body soul and spirit.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB95)

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In the day of judgment / resurrection, all are raised for the purpose of bowing the knee to Jesus and to confess he is Lord to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).

 

The condemned will be thrown into the lake of fire along with death and hell and the fallen angels both in and outside of the abyss. Everything physical will be destroyed by the fire:

 

Malachi 4:3 (NASB95)

3 “You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

 

The souls will cease to exist as they are the buffer between the two realities of spirit and of the physical. The spirit will live on after this second death in eternal torment. 

 

Spirits do not die. They must therefore be detained someplace apart from God / paradise...

 

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

This does not mean solely for the devil and his angels since the verse itself speaks of men going there. It means it was originally prepared for the devil and his angels before mankind even existed... or another possible interpretation of this is that all who follow satan are messengers (angels) of the devil.

 

So when one considers all, then all three camps about death / the afterlife / hell are correct. Part of us (our soul) ceases to exist. The body ceases to be animated / corporeal and appears to sleep and begins to decay into the basic elements. Our spirit lives on, alert, self aware, possessing quite a number of traits mistaken for those only of the physical body...

 

Consider in the account of the rich man and Lazarus (an event in the spirit / spirit realm).

 

Sight, hearing, speech (over the vast gulf, I might add), instantaneous recognition of each other (as were Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration, btw) a finger, a tongue, thirst, agonizing pain in fire... which some scholars explain as anthropomorphism (putting something alien to humanity into human terms). But where does it say the spirit (our spirit) is some invisible cloud / will of the wisp? Where in our body is our spirit? Where in our body is there an absence of spirit? Is our spirit really so unlike our bodies?

 

 

The wicked will not be tormented forever the rich man and lazerus was a parable 

 

No one can actually take water to that place 

[missmuffet]

When these kinds of topics are raised, rarely is the fullness of the subject ever discussed. We are a threefold being of body soul and spirit.

 

1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NASB95)

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

In the day of judgment / resurrection, all are raised for the purpose of bowing the knee to Jesus and to confess he is Lord to the glory of God the Father (Philippians 2:9-11).

 

The condemned will be thrown into the lake of fire along with death and hell and the fallen angels both in and outside of the abyss. Everything physical will be destroyed by the fire:

 

Malachi 4:3 (NASB95)

3 “You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says the Lord of hosts.

 

The souls will cease to exist as they are the buffer between the two realities of spirit and of the physical. The spirit will live on after this second death in eternal torment. 

 

Spirits do not die. They must therefore be detained someplace apart from God / paradise...

 

Matthew 25:41 (NASB95)

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

 

This does not mean solely for the devil and his angels since the verse itself speaks of men going there. It means it was originally prepared for the devil and his angels before mankind even existed... or another possible interpretation of this is that all who follow satan are messengers (angels) of the devil.

 

So when one considers all, then all three camps about death / the afterlife / hell are correct. Part of us (our soul) ceases to exist. The body ceases to be animated / corporeal and appears to sleep and begins to decay into the basic elements. Our spirit lives on, alert, self aware, possessing quite a number of traits mistaken for those only of the physical body...

 

Consider in the account of the rich man and Lazarus (an event in the spirit / spirit realm).

 

Sight, hearing, speech (over the vast gulf, I might add), instantaneous recognition of each other (as were Moses and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration, btw) a finger, a tongue, thirst, agonizing pain in fire... which some scholars explain as anthropomorphism (putting something alien to humanity into human terms). But where does it say the spirit (our spirit) is some invisible cloud / will of the wisp? Where in our body is our spirit? Where in our body is there an absence of spirit? Is our spirit really so unlike our bodies?

 

Our soul or our spirit is everything about you that is inside of you that you can not see..

[fruitfull77]

 

There is no hell right now.

The dead from the past, bad or good,  are in their graves.

when the word "hell" is used many times over in the Bible is means grave or pit. The majority of times the greek word hades is used or Hebrew's " sheof '

2Peter 2:4 uses tartarus which means restrained referring only to the fallen angels.

Gehenna is the only soul killer.

Think of the billions that have died without knowing Christ. Where are they now?

Dante's Inferno is responsible for a lot of misunderstanding.

No one currently dead are being tortured in a hell fire now. That torment is only reserved for Satan and his demons.Matt 25:41

None of our loved ones are suffering right now.

Since we have mortal souls 1 cor 15:53-54 and can perish in Gehenna, only the unrepenting souls will be thrown in and burn up completely.Those saved will become immortal spirits-the others will experience the second death-Rev 20;15 

We can't burn forever unless we are immortal spirits and only satan and his demons are immortal spirits and will be tortured forever.

that's the way I see it.

 

Satan doesn't have immortality either- only God.  When God finally casts it all into outer darkness all sin including Satan and the fallen angels will cease to exist.

 

1 Timothy 6:16

Who alone has immortality [in the sense of exemption from every kind of death] and lives in unapproachable light, Whom no man has ever seen or can see. Unto Him be honor and everlasting power and dominion. Amen (so be it).

 

We are given immortality through Jesus and that is the ONLY way for a human being to become immortal.

 

Where people get messed up is not understanding what makes a living soul.  Your spirit is the breath of life from God and it returns to God at your death.  But it does not contain your thoughts/feelings/personality.  A living soul is the combination of God's breath+the body=you.  Without either one you cease to exist.  The body you have now will be the one you have in Heaven- only glorified.

 

It's jarring to many because mainstream preachers still preach an immortal soul and eternal torment.  For me personally when I first heard about this concept, many years ago,  I thought it couldn't be true.  Yet when you learn the scriptures you find that is exactly the truth.

 

Angels are immortal beings-including satan

God created them before mankind -they are spiritual beings existing in another dimension-the spiritual world..

They are not eternal like God but they are immortal. God gave them immortality from the beginning-they were never physical.

They never age, procreate, with no ending, and they do not die. Luke 20:36

Unlike us, we were created physical, and have to be given immortality by God at the 1st resurrection of the saints-afterwards all the rest of the dead who ever lived will be raised back  to a physical life and given a chance to earn immortality-if they refuse to live by God's word then they will be put in the lake of fire and destroyed for good-this is the second death. As immortal spirits the fallen angels and satan will spend eternity in the lake of fire tortured for their evil ways.

[Montana Marv]

The beast and the false prophet are flesh and blood.  They are the first to go into the Lake of Fire where they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  Death and Hades are thrown into the Lake of Fire, those individuals will be tormented for ever and for ever.  Total separation from God and His love.  And the books were opened.  If anyone was not found written in the Book of Life, he was thrown into the Lake of Fire.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[fruitfull77]

The translation in Rev 21:10 should read " where the Beast and the false prophet were (not are)-and shall be tormented day and night  for ever and ever refers to the devil mentioned earlier in the verse.

Being flesh and blood and not immortal they were subject to complete destruction.

Rev 20::12-15 shows the dead risen for judgment not given the gift of immortality and not in the book of life and then cast into the lake of fire-it doesn't say tortured for them rather it says this is the second death-the destruction of their body and soul as Jesus mention in Matt 10:28

[AlanLamb0986]

See, I don't know where I stand with this. John 3:16 says that only those that believe shall have eternal life. But if Hell means that the body and soul remains conscious after entering the lake, doesn't that mean that the non-believers also have eternal life, even if it is excruciatingly painful? The Bible says that God is love in 1 John 4:8, and I know that the cost of sin is death, but Paul never said that the cost of sin is eternal suffering. The Bible says that there will be eternal suffering in Hell, but maybe it just means that the consequences of denying Jesus are eternal- in this case an eternal death. Matthew 10:28 says that we should fear God, because He can destroy both the body AND the soul. But then in Matthew 13:50, Jesus said there would be weeping and gnashing of teeth, so only conscious people can weep and gnash teeth. 

So if people don't atone through Christ, wouldn't that mean that the destruction of body and soul is the debt paid, because that's the only way the unsaved can pay back the debt? If we look at the Law of Moses, God didn't order that the animal be slowly drained of it's blood during sacrifices, in order to prolong the pain. Maybe I'm just going a bit off there though.

We all know that all mankind has sinned, and Jesus will come to destroy evil at the Second Coming. We were told that we were objects of wrath, who never did good, never seeking God, so He sought us out. We were, by all intensive purposes, breaders and multipliers of sin. If Hell is eternal punishment, then evil hasn't been destroyed, just contained

Also, maybe 'death' doesn't mean what we think. Maybe God doesn't view the 'death' that we call 'death' as 'death' at all. I don't think that death means to be absent from God in Hell, because there's no scripture to support it. ALL things were created by God, that includes Hell, so God must preside over it. It's Christ that throws the Devil into Hell, so Christ must be Lord over Hell. Paul Walsher said that Hell isn't Hell because of the absence of God. It's Hell because of the presence of God and the absence of Grace. To be honest, I don't know. There's verses that support a conscious suffering (with the gnashing of teeth), and those that support soul destruction (the second death.)

Edited January 14, 2014 by AlanLamb0986

[Guest DRS81]

See, I don't know where I stand with this. John 3:16 says that only those that believe shall have eternal life.

 

Being judged is not ceasing to exist. Those who have eternal life is just that, it's LIFE.

Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.