Moral, Civil, Ceremonial Laws... What applies today?

[Guest Butero]

Read this today... Particularly relating to the Christian and the OT Law...

 

The Old Testament Law

 

Ceremonial Law: This type of law relates to Israel's worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, that is to worship and love God, still apply.

Civil Law: This law dictated Israel's daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are used to guide our conduct.

 

Moral Law: The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example are the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God.

 

What do you think? Let's discuss.

God bless

I have been saying almost the exact same thing for years.  There are basically 3 types of laws.  1.  The laws pertaining to the office of the Levitical Priests.  These laws don't apply today because they were only intended to continue till the cross.  2.  Laws of separation.  These were laws that showed Israel was a separate people from the idol worshipping gentile nations around them.  These laws don't apply to us because after the cross, the gentile believers are engrafted into the same spiritual tree as the Jews.  We are adopted Jews, and since we are no longer unclean through faith in Christ, laws of separation don't apply.  3.  Moral laws.  These reflect God's standards, and they do apply to us today. 

 

That is how I break them down.  A separate issue is one of penalties for disobedience.  Israel was governed by the law of Moses, and that meant to enforce the laws, there had to be penalties.  The penalties don't apply today.  We don't have to execute adulterers, homosexuals and witches, for an example. 

[ProphecyKid]

 

Read this today... Particularly relating to the Christian and the OT Law...

 

The Old Testament Law

 

Ceremonial Law: This type of law relates to Israel's worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, that is to worship and love God, still apply.

Civil Law: This law dictated Israel's daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are used to guide our conduct.

 

Moral Law: The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example are the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God.

 

What do you think? Let's discuss.

God bless

I have been saying almost the exact same thing for years.  There are basically 3 types of laws.  1.  The laws pertaining to the office of the Levitical Priests.  These laws don't apply today because they were only intended to continue till the cross.  2.  Laws of separation.  These were laws that showed Israel was a separate people from the idol worshipping gentile nations around them.  These laws don't apply to us because after the cross, the gentile believers are engrafted into the same spiritual tree as the Jews.  We are adopted Jews, and since we are no longer unclean through faith in Christ, laws of separation don't apply.  3.  Moral laws.  These reflect God's standards, and they do apply to us today. 

 

That is how I break them down.  A separate issue is one of penalties for disobedience.  Israel was governed by the law of Moses, and that meant to enforce the laws, there had to be penalties.  The penalties don't apply today.  We don't have to execute adulterers, homosexuals and witches, for an example. 

 

 

My only disagreement with you is on what you term the laws of seperation. I don't agree that God gave them laws just because he wanted them to be seperate. I don't see why that would be a main reason for God giving any set of laws. Now the laws could have made them seperate as a result, but I cant see how it could be the initial purpose. 

[Guest Butero]

 

 

Read this today... Particularly relating to the Christian and the OT Law...

 

The Old Testament Law

 

Ceremonial Law: This type of law relates to Israel's worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, that is to worship and love God, still apply.

Civil Law: This law dictated Israel's daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are used to guide our conduct.

 

Moral Law: The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example are the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God.

 

What do you think? Let's discuss.

God bless

I have been saying almost the exact same thing for years.  There are basically 3 types of laws.  1.  The laws pertaining to the office of the Levitical Priests.  These laws don't apply today because they were only intended to continue till the cross.  2.  Laws of separation.  These were laws that showed Israel was a separate people from the idol worshipping gentile nations around them.  These laws don't apply to us because after the cross, the gentile believers are engrafted into the same spiritual tree as the Jews.  We are adopted Jews, and since we are no longer unclean through faith in Christ, laws of separation don't apply.  3.  Moral laws.  These reflect God's standards, and they do apply to us today. 

 

That is how I break them down.  A separate issue is one of penalties for disobedience.  Israel was governed by the law of Moses, and that meant to enforce the laws, there had to be penalties.  The penalties don't apply today.  We don't have to execute adulterers, homosexuals and witches, for an example. 

 

 

My only disagreement with you is on what you term the laws of seperation. I don't agree that God gave them laws just because he wanted them to be seperate. I don't see why that would be a main reason for God giving any set of laws. Now the laws could have made them seperate as a result, but I cant see how it could be the initial purpose. 

 

What I mean is laws like circumcision.  This was given to show Israel was a separate people.  Laws of unclean foods were for the same purpose.  You can see this in Acts and Peter's vision.  That is where the purpose of these laws are shown. 

[ProphecyKid]

 

 

 

Read this today... Particularly relating to the Christian and the OT Law...

 

The Old Testament Law

 

Ceremonial Law: This type of law relates to Israel's worship. (Lev 1:1-13) The laws pointed forward to Jesus Christ and were no longer necessary after Jesus' death and resurrection. Though we are no longer bound to them, the principles behind the ceremonial laws, that is to worship and love God, still apply.

Civil Law: This law dictated Israel's daily living (Deut 24:10-11); but modern society and culture are so radically different that some of these guidelines cannot be followed specifically. The principles behind the commands are used to guide our conduct.

 

Moral Law: The moral laws are direct commands of God. A good example are the Ten Commandments (Ex 20:1-17). The moral laws reveal the nature and will of God, and still apply to us today. We do not obey this moral law as a way to obtain salvation, but to live in ways pleasing to God.

 

What do you think? Let's discuss.

God bless

I have been saying almost the exact same thing for years.  There are basically 3 types of laws.  1.  The laws pertaining to the office of the Levitical Priests.  These laws don't apply today because they were only intended to continue till the cross.  2.  Laws of separation.  These were laws that showed Israel was a separate people from the idol worshipping gentile nations around them.  These laws don't apply to us because after the cross, the gentile believers are engrafted into the same spiritual tree as the Jews.  We are adopted Jews, and since we are no longer unclean through faith in Christ, laws of separation don't apply.  3.  Moral laws.  These reflect God's standards, and they do apply to us today. 

 

That is how I break them down.  A separate issue is one of penalties for disobedience.  Israel was governed by the law of Moses, and that meant to enforce the laws, there had to be penalties.  The penalties don't apply today.  We don't have to execute adulterers, homosexuals and witches, for an example. 

 

 

My only disagreement with you is on what you term the laws of seperation. I don't agree that God gave them laws just because he wanted them to be seperate. I don't see why that would be a main reason for God giving any set of laws. Now the laws could have made them seperate as a result, but I cant see how it could be the initial purpose. 

 

What I mean is laws like circumcision.  This was given to show Israel was a separate people.  Laws of unclean foods were for the same purpose.  You can see this in Acts and Peter's vision.  That is where the purpose of these laws are shown. 

 

 

No I disagree. Circumcision had a spiritual meaning behind it. Speaking of Abraham the bible says:

 

Rom 4:11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 

 

Circumcision was not just to show a difference. God doesn't let people just do things without any meaning just to make them different. 

 

And when it comes to the dietary laws, remember that back in the days of Noah there were clean and unclean animals. God would not want them to have a different diet if it would not be of benefit to them, if the only reason was to make them different. God told them that if they followed his laws, the diseases that the Egyptians get, they would not get them and scientific research shows that the foods labelled unclean in the bible retain a much higher level of toxins in their bodies as opposed to the foods labelled clean. The foods labelled clean are lower down in the food chain and have better systems of elimination such as a cow with 4 stomachs. So you can't just reduce it to being separate. 

[Guest Butero]

I know there are people that believe like you do.  I am not one of them.  I believe the only reason for the dietary laws was to give a sign of separation between the Jews and idol worshipping gentiles.  I believe the symbolism was to show Israel was clean and worshipped the true and living God and the gentiles were unclean and worshipped idols.  Now that the gentiles are part of God's family, the symbolism has changed, and we may now eat anything sold in the market place.  What God has cleansed should not be called common or unclean.  Circumcision was a sign that Abraham, the first Jew, belonged to God, and the sign was given to all Israel.  It showed them a separate people from the idolatrous gentile nations around them.  If you were a gentile, and wanted to be saved, you were to become as a Jew and received the sign of circumcision.  We are no longer required to do those things.  But I do understand your position.  I just don't share it. 

[gdemoss]

Moral, Civil, Ceremonial Laws... What applies today?

 

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

 

The person of Jesus Christ is what applies not law.

 

Hbr 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

 

However one must understand.

 

Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

There was a new beginning made during the times of the Gentiles.

 

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

 

And finally....

 

1Ti 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

 

 

I write the preceding with the full understanding that the easiest way to pervert the word of God is to read it per verse rather than completely in context.  I chose the specific verses and order to lead one to see them as I do.  I have every reason to believe that I see them in truth but do not for a single moment believe that it is impossible for me to be wrong and gladly extend my hand to those who choose to agree to disagree without the need for stones.  Peace unto all those who are truly in Christ.  It isn't a free for all but rather a freedom to worship God through Christ Jesus our Lord that I have.  I am not bound by Moses.  I am bound by Love.  God is Love.

[Guest shiloh357]

My only disagreement with you is on what you term the laws of seperation. I don't agree that God gave them laws just because he wanted them to be seperate. I don't see why that would be a main reason for God giving any set of laws. Now the laws could have made them seperate as a result, but I cant see how it could be the initial purpose. 

 

 

Many of the laws God gave the Israelites were for the purpose of making them a separate people.  The laws against occultic practices, tatooing, against constructing an idol and claiming it to be YHVH, the hygene laws, the law against drinking blood, and a host of other laws were designed to set Israel apart.  The Sabbath was exclusive to Israel.  No other nation observed a day of rest.

 

There are several laws that you can see are meant to make Israel visibly separate because over and over again, God says they are not imitate what they see in the surrounding cultures.  These prohibitions I listed above and many others are meant make Israel stand out.  God didn't want Israel to adopt the worship practices of the other nations and so He gave Israel a set of laws that were in fact the polar opposite of what was done in other cultures.  Israel's worship of ONE God was to look completely different in every way to how the other nations worshipped their God.   It is all about separation and sanctification of worship, making Israel a peculiar people among the nations.

[Spock]

Excellent synopsis GE. I agree 100%.

As a side note, don't flame me, Saturday is my preferred day to publicly worship and or rest. I am a teacher so usually I won't grade papers or write lesson plans on Saturday. I do that on Sunday. My wife and I either attend a Messianic congregation on Saturday or we stay home and study gods word, worship and pray on Saturday. Naturally we try to follow the fourth commandment as written. We do not judge others who don't.

Anyhow, that's my two cents on this topic. Great question to ponder.

Spock

[GoldenEagle]

Here's another resource too:

 

 

Question: "What is the difference between the ceremonial law, the moral law, and the judicial law in the Old Testament?"

Answer: The law of God given to Moses is a comprehensive set of guidelines to ensure that the Israelites' behavior reflected their status as God's chosen people. It encompasses moral behavior, their position as a godly example to other nations, and systematic procedures for acknowledging God's holiness and mankind's sinfulness. In an attempt to better understand the purpose of these laws, Jews and Christians categorize them. This has led to the distinction between moral law, ceremonial law, and judicial law.

Moral Law
The moral laws, or mishpatim, relate to justice and judgment and are often translated as "ordinances." Mishpatim are said to be based on God's holy nature. As such, the ordinances are holy, just, and unchanging. Their purpose is to promote the welfare of those who obey. The value of the laws is considered obvious by reason and common sense. The moral law encompasses regulations on justice, respect, and sexual conduct, and includes the Ten Commandments. It also includes penalties for failure to obey the ordinances. Moral law does not point people to Christ; it merely illuminates the fallen state of all mankind.

Modern Protestants are divided over the applicability of mishpatim in the church age. Some believe that Jesus' assertion that the law will remain in effect until the earth passes away (Matthew 5:18) means that believers are still bound to it. Others, however, understand that Jesus fulfilled this requirement (Matthew 5:17), and that we are instead under the law of Christ (Galatians 6:2), which is thought to be "love God and love others" (Matthew 22:36-40). Although many of the moral laws in the Old Testament give excellent examples as to how to love God and love others, and freedom from the law is not license to sin (Romans 6:15), we are not specifically bound by mishpatim.

Ceremonial Law
The ceremonial laws are called hukkim or chuqqah in Hebrew, which literally means “custom of the nation”; the words are often translated as "statutes." These laws are not obvious to common sense; for example, the destruction of perfectly good animals for sacrifice and the rejection of food sources such as pork and rabbit. Instead, these statutes seem to focus the adherent's attention on God. They include instructions on regaining right standing with God (e.g., sacrifices and other ceremonies regarding "uncleanness"), remembrances of God's work in Israel (e.g., feasts and festivals), specific regulations meant to distinguish Israelites from their pagan neighbors (e.g., dietary and clothing restrictions), and signs that point to the coming Messiah (e.g., the Sabbath, circumcision, Passover, and the redemption of the first-born). Some Jews believe that the ceremonial law is not fixed. They hold that, as societies evolve, so do God's expectations of how His followers should relate to Him. This view is not indicated in the Bible.

Christians are not bound by ceremonial law. Since the church is not the nation of Israel, memorial festivals, such as the Feast of Weeks and Passover, do not apply. Galatians 3:23-25 explains that since Jesus has come, Christians are not required to sacrifice or circumcise. There is still debate in Protestant churches over the applicability of the Sabbath. Some say that its inclusion in the Ten Commandments gives it the weight of moral law. Others quote Colossians 2:16-17 and Romans 14:5 to explain that Jesus has fulfilled the Sabbath and become our Sabbath rest. As Romans 14:5 says, "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind." The applicability of the Old Testament law in the life of a Christian has always related to its usefulness in loving God and others. If someone feels observing the Sabbath aids him in this, he is free to observe it.

Judicial/Civil Law
The Westminster Confession adds the category of judicial or civil law. These laws were specifically given for the culture and place of the Israelites and encompass all of the moral law except the Ten Commandments. This includes everything from murder to restitution for a man gored by an ox and the responsibility of the man who dug a pit to rescue his neighbor's trapped donkey (Exodus 21:12-36). Since the Jews saw no difference between their God-ordained morality and their cultural responsibilities, this category is used by Christians far more than by Jewish scholars.

The division of the Jewish law into different categories is a human construct designed to better understand the nature of God and define which laws church-age Christians are still required to follow. Many believe the ceremonial law is not applicable, but we are bound by the Ten Commandments. All the law is useful for instruction (2 Timothy 3:16), and nothing in the Bible indicates that God intended a distinction of categories. Christians are not under the law (Romans 10:4). Jesus fulfilled the law, thus abolishing the difference between Jew and Gentile "so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross…" (Ephesians 2:15-16).

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/ceremonial-law.html#ixzz2p4XQvRgK

[GoldenEagle]

 

 

 

My only disagreement with you is on what you term the laws of seperation. I don't agree that God gave them laws just because he wanted them to be seperate. I don't see why that would be a main reason for God giving any set of laws. Now the laws could have made them seperate as a result, but I cant see how it could be the initial purpose. 

 

What I mean is laws like circumcision.  This was given to show Israel was a separate people.  Laws of unclean foods were for the same purpose.  You can see this in Acts and Peter's vision.  That is where the purpose of these laws are shown. 

 

 

No I disagree. Circumcision had a spiritual meaning behind it. Speaking of Abraham the bible says:

 

Rom 4:11  And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: 

 

Circumcision was not just to show a difference. God doesn't let people just do things without any meaning just to make them different. 

 

And when it comes to the dietary laws, remember that back in the days of Noah there were clean and unclean animals. God would not want them to have a different diet if it would not be of benefit to them, if the only reason was to make them different. God told them that if they followed his laws, the diseases that the Egyptians get, they would not get them and scientific research shows that the foods labelled unclean in the bible retain a much higher level of toxins in their bodies as opposed to the foods labelled clean. The foods labelled clean are lower down in the food chain and have better systems of elimination such as a cow with 4 stomachs. So you can't just reduce it to being separate. 

 

I see it a bit differently personally. I see circumcision as having two-fold significance...

A) To separate Israel from nations around her. It was a physical distinction that made Israelites different than citizens of other nations. Also consider too that the 10 commandments were ONLY given to Israel initially. They were a reflection of God's relationship to man (first 4) and man's relationship to man (the remaining 6).

AND

B) To show a spiritual truth through the act. The descendants of Israel were a people chosen and separated by God to bless the whole world through Messiah - Jesus Christ. It was a symbol of righteousness through Abraham's faith in God. Ironically, it showed Israel that faith in God trumped anything they could DO FOR God. In other words, they (Israel) couldn't save themselves.

Perhaps then it is not either/or but both? Thoughts?

God bless,

GE