Luke 16:19-31 The Rich Man and Lazarus

[Guest DRS81]

 

 

 

Revelation 20

13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.

15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.

 

Ceasing to exist is not judgment.

 

Define ceasing it exist.If is not punishment then what is it?

 

 

No no. What I'm saying is we do not cease to exist when we die. Hell is eternal. Judgment is punishment for our sins, and this judgment is eternal.

[Guest man]

No no. What I'm saying is we do not cease to exist when we die. Hell is eternal. Judgment is punishment for our sins, and this judgment is eternal.

 

 

 

Hell is also empty when it's cast into the lake of fire.

[Guest DRS81]

 

No no. What I'm saying is we do not cease to exist when we die. Hell is eternal. Judgment is punishment for our sins, and this judgment is eternal.

 

 

 

Hell is also empty when it's cast into the lake of fire.

 

 

Find me scripture where judgment ends there.

[Guest shiloh357]

The point I am making is although these are valuable references as externals they should not out weight the internal evidences of The Word!

 

 

I am not saying they out weight the internal evidence of the Word.  I am saying that Jesus using names in  parable is consistent with other parables of that time period.  I am not weighing one thing against another.   This is not a "Bible vs. outside sources"  issue.   I am not setting the Bible against anything else.  I am showing the Bible is historically consistent and culturally consistent.  If anything, I am showing why the Bible can be trusted as a historical document.

 

It does not match the internal literary style of the Bible on how parables were written -period-... I believe you said "it does not matter"

I believe it does!

 

 

What I said is that it doesn't matter that Jesus only used names in one parable. That doesn't matter.  On every point of literary comparison the story of the rich man and lazarus meets every criteria for a parable of that time period and is consistent from a literary standpoint with every other parable that Jesus told.   That this one stands out as unique doesn't mean it isn't a parable.   It meets every literary criterion that exists for it to be Parable and the Bible includes in Luke among other parables.  

 

If it is not a parable why would Luke embed it in a collection of parables???  

 

Once again it is not consistent within parables within the Bible itself and your ignoring of that fact does not support your desire for it to be a parable either!

 

 

It is entirely consistent with the other parables Jesus told.  I don't see where you are can claim otherwise, because you certainly have no evidence to present.

 

Once again internally Jesus never used specific names in His parables this is literary fact  and going to externals to over weigh this fact and make it parable does nothing to change the internal

fact!

Actually Jesus did use names in at least one parable.   I simply use external documents to show that parables in rabbinic literature used names of real people.   Jesus did the same in this parable.  Nothing you say can change that fact.   All you are doing is showing that you really don't understand how exegesis works.  You just parrot the same empty claims over and over and over as if repeating them enough will make the true.   The facts are on my side.

 

Actually in literary fact Luke 16:14 is where Jesus Himself ceases from parables and enters into fact based discussion with the Pharisees!

In that context lies the event of Lazarus and the rich man... It is interesting to note that the New American Standard updated and the New King James in the topic headings leave off from calling it a parable! Just a little external evidence the other way

 

It is included by scholars in the parabolic section of Luke.  Every recognized authority calls it a parable.  It has every literary earmark of a parable.  No matter how you try to kick against the goads, it is a parable.   That NASB and the NKJ don't call it a parable in their subject headings is meaningless.   If you look in any book that was written on the parables of Jesus, this is included in them. 

[Guest ninhao]

 

Actually in literary fact Luke 16:14 is where Jesus Himself ceases from parables and enters into fact based discussion with the Pharisees!

In that context lies the event of Lazarus and the rich man... It is interesting to note that the New American Standard updated and the New King James in the topic headings leave off from calling it a parable! Just a little external evidence the other way Love, Steven

 

 

Hello Enoob.

 

Do you believe people in hell can see and converse with people outside of hell ?

[missmuffet]

 

 

Actually in literary fact Luke 16:14 is where Jesus Himself ceases from parables and enters into fact based discussion with the Pharisees!

In that context lies the event of Lazarus and the rich man... It is interesting to note that the New American Standard updated and the New King James in the topic headings leave off from calling it a parable! Just a little external evidence the other way Love, Steven

 

 

Hello Enoob.

 

Do you believe people in hell can see and converse with people outside of hell ?

 

I am not my friend enoob but no they can not.What do you think enoob?Enoob is it not called hell now but hades?

[Guest man]

Find me scripture where judgment ends there.

 

 

Revelation 20

 

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

 

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

 

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

 

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

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[Guest ninhao]

 

Find me scripture where judgment ends there.

 

 

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

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1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

 

[Guest man]

 

 

Find me scripture where judgment ends there.

 

 

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

.

 

 

1Co 15:26  The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

 

 

 

 

[Guest DRS81]

 

Find me scripture where judgment ends there.

 

 

Revelation 20

 

10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them.

 

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

 

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

 

14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

 

15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

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Please read all of shiloh357's posts here. You have much to learn...