Hebrew Scholar Affirms YEC and Other parts of Genesis

[Guest shiloh357]

 

I notice you only respond to critiques of the Yom argument.  You haven't acknowledged mine which admits that Yom means 24 hours??

 

clb

 

I have been responding to the arguments that yom can mean longer periods of time.   I have been arguing that  yom refers to literal 24 hour days in Genesis 1.  Was there a particular post you wanted me to acknolwedge?

[Guest shiloh357]

 

 

"Because the age debate isn't about presenting Jesus."

 

But is not presenting Jesus the whole point of Scripture? Are we not to read Scripture first and foremost to know God?

 

37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38 "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.

Witness of the Scripture

39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life ; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. 41 "I do not receive glory from men ; (John 5)

 

 

"It is an issue about the authority of the Bible vs. the authority of science to interpret or modify the biblical text."

 

When Paul preached in the Areopagus in Athens (Acts  17), was he concerned with debating the authority of the Greek religion or Greek philosophies vs. the authority of the Scriptures or the Gospel?

 

 

Actually the authoirty of the Word of God was a central theme of Paul's epistles.   God makes a big deal about the authority of His word all over the Bible.

 

The book of Genesis, in particular the first eleven chapters of Genesis are the seed bed for many major doctrines of the Bible including doctrines about Jesus and Messianic prophecy.   But the Bible can't be trusted to be correct and accurate in chapter one, it stands to reason that precedent for challenging the accuracy and authority of the Bible in rest of Scripture has been set.

 

Everything in the Bible is connected to Jesus.  You can't disconnect Jesus from Genesis and argue that the issues raised pertaining to Genesis 1 don't have anything to do with Jesus.  They are most definitely connected to Him.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

4. What Dr. Schroeder said- it could be both, depending on what perspective you are looking from. (Remember time is slower as we move further away toward the beginning)

 

What Schroeder said was that there are places in the universe where 6 days would actually be clocked at 15 billion years, which I do not dispute.   But that doesn't change the fact that 15 billion years is still an assumption.  There are also places in the universe in the universe where 6 days in that location are only a million years on earth or one hundred thousand years on earth.

 

The fact is that what we hvae are people running with the 15 billion year number as if it is fact and they are busy trying to prove everything from that assumption. Schroeder begins with the assumption and sets about to prove the assumption, which is the antithesis of science and how scientists are suppposed to think.

[Spock]

You cannot take a quote Dr. Schroeder used from someone else who may have practiced a considerably different form of Kabbalah and make it to what we understand about Kabbalah today, which is definitely occultic.  Back centuries ago it did not take this form.

You are wrong. The Kaballah was always occultic.  

 

Besides they are referencing certain points of Hebrew to support a point that was made.

They are referencing Hebrew from a mystical and not a textual perspective  They are adding mystical interpretations and presenting this mystical meaning as if it is the meaning of the text.

 

When we read more about the science of starlight and time we can see that the six day 24-hour creation and the billions of years of age to the universe can both be true.  This is the essence of Hebrew block logic.

That is not the essence of Herew block logic at all  If God were trying to fit 15 billion years into six days, He would have said so, but He didn't.

One of the aspects of Hebrew block logic is duality.  You can have both.  For example, election and free-will.  Christian churches have divided themselves on this doctrine and swear one over the other.  Not so, in Judaism.  It can be both!

But we are not talking about Judaism, here.  For one thing you cannot compare this to the debate of free will and election.   Both concepts are in the Bible.   However the Bible has no dual functioning paradox between 6 days of creation vs. 15 billion years of creation.  The Bible doesn't make a case for both.   So there is no way you can use block logic scripturally like that.  The Bible simply says that the earth was created in six days.  It doesn't make room for a dual view.

Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew. You have to view it from a Jewish perspective or you will lose its intent and full meaning. The church has misinterpreted some of Jesus' parables because of this lack of understanding. Once you do, however, they burst open with meaning. G-d states there are mysteries here. You have to do a little detective work. We have been through the duality possibility. Opinions otherwise won't change it.

[Guest shiloh357]

 

Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew. You have to view it from a Jewish perspective or you will lose its intent and full meaning. The church has misinterpreted some of Jesus' parables because of this lack of understanding. Once you do, however, they burst open with meaning. G-d states there are mysteries here. You have to do a little detective work. We have been through the duality possibility. Opinions otherwise won't change it.

 

I know more about the "Jewish" perspective of the Bible than you know, but that is not what is at issue in Genesis 1.  There is no duality in Genesis 1.

[nebula]

 

 

 

"Because the age debate isn't about presenting Jesus."

 

But is not presenting Jesus the whole point of Scripture? Are we not to read Scripture first and foremost to know God?

 

37 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form. 38 "You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent.

Witness of the Scripture

39 "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life ; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. 41 "I do not receive glory from men ; (John 5)

 

 

"It is an issue about the authority of the Bible vs. the authority of science to interpret or modify the biblical text."

 

When Paul preached in the Areopagus in Athens (Acts  17), was he concerned with debating the authority of the Greek religion or Greek philosophies vs. the authority of the Scriptures or the Gospel?

 

 

Actually the authoirty of the Word of God was a central theme of Paul's epistles.   God makes a big deal about the authority of His word all over the Bible.

 

The book of Genesis, in particular the first eleven chapters of Genesis are the seed bed for many major doctrines of the Bible including doctrines about Jesus and Messianic prophecy.   But the Bible can't be trusted to be correct and accurate in chapter one, it stands to reason that precedent for challenging the accuracy and authority of the Bible in rest of Scripture has been set.

 

Everything in the Bible is connected to Jesus.  You can't disconnect Jesus from Genesis and argue that the issues raised pertaining to Genesis 1 don't have anything to do with Jesus.  They are most definitely connected to Him.

 

 

But it's only your doctrinal interpretation that insists the acknowledgment of Scriptural authority rests on believing the universe was created in  6 24-hour time periods.

 

What happened to your teaching the Gospel account contained in the revealing of Creation? Do you still believe in that?

 

I bet 99% of American Christians have no clue that there is a Gospel message presented in Genesis 1. Seriously, how many reading this thread could explain in detail how Genesis 1 conveys the Gospel?

 

I will bet they cannot They cannot because everyone is so concerned with outwitting science from a pre-cientific text from a non-western culture that the message gleaned from the text for several millenia before western scientific thought ever existed has been completely ignored.

[Guest shiloh357]

But it's only your doctrinal interpretation that insists the acknowledgment of Scriptural authority rests on believing the universe was created in  6 24-hour time periods.

 

It's more than that.  The Hebrew grammar of the text only allows for the use of "yom" to be rendered as a litreal 24 hour day in that particular text.  That is the crux of the problem.

 

What happened to your teaching the Gospel account contained in the revealing of Creation? Do you still believe in that?

 

Of course I do.   I don't see that this is at odds with that at all.  

 

I bet 99% of American Christians have no clue that there is a Gospel message presented in Genesis 1. Seriously, how many reading this thread could explain in detail how Genesis 1 conveys the Gospel?

 

There are a lot of doctrines in the Bible that have their origins in Genesis 1-3.   But those doctrines rely on a literal interpretation of Genesis.  When one part is no longer taken literally, the whole thing begins to unravel.  The Gospel presentation of Genesis 1 is rooted in how Genesis is written.

 

I will bet they cannot They cannot because everyone is so concerned with outwitting science from a pre-cientific text from a non-western culture that the message gleaned from the text for several millenia before western scientific thought ever existed has been completely ignored.

 

I don't see that anyone is trying to outwit science at all.  If anything I see people trying to insert modern scientific assumptions into a text that is not scientific.

[Enoch2021]

 

Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew. You have to view it from a Jewish perspective or you will lose its intent and full meaning. The church has misinterpreted some of Jesus' parables because of this lack of understanding. Once you do, however, they burst open with meaning. G-d states there are mysteries here. You have to do a little detective work. We have been through the duality possibility. Opinions otherwise won't change it.

 

 

"Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew."

 

But the Author was Jesus Christ.  I've "heard" that there is some proof that it was given to Moses 1 letter @ a time...can't support that statement.

 

 

"Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew. You have to view it from a Jewish perspective or you will lose its intent and full meaning."

 

I may be misguided but I thought he wrote it to me.  I'm getting a feeling here that I either have to be a Jew or a Hebrew Scholar to be able to discern what the LORD is trying to say or distill the TRUE meaning....is that a fair assessment or am I misunderstanding the messages?

 

 

"The church has misinterpreted some of Jesus' parables"

 

What "church" might that be?

 

 

"Once you do, however, they burst open with meaning."

 

I would have to agree with you.... in some instances.  Perhaps someone can speak to this. 

 

 

"G-d states there are mysteries here. You have to do a little detective work."

 

100% agree.....

 

(Proverbs 25:2) "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

 

 

One last issue....I've seen alot of posts in the forum with "G-d".  Is it that difficult to add the "O" and spell it "GOD" or I am "out of the loop" and not following proper etiquette?

[nebula]

It's more than that.  The Hebrew grammar of the text only allows for the use of "yom" to be rendered as a litreal 24 hour day in that particular text.  That is the crux of the problem.

Does this include having to believe that vs 1 was a part of Day 1? That in the first 24-hour time period God creates the entire universe, the earth, waters, and then light?

Does this include having to believe that days were marked off as 24 hours before the creation of the sun?

Does this include having to believe that evenings and mornings likewise existed before the creation of the sun?

 

 

 

 

What happened to your teaching the Gospel account contained in the revealing of Creation? Do you still believe in that?

Of course I do.   I don't see that this is at odds with that at all.

 

I definitely see the obsession with 6 24-hour periods trumping the spiritual message.

  

 

 

I bet 99% of American Christians have no clue that there is a Gospel message presented in Genesis 1. Seriously, how many reading this thread could explain in detail how Genesis 1 conveys the Gospel?

There are a lot of doctrines in the Bible that have their origins in Genesis 1-3.   But those doctrines rely on a literal interpretation of Genesis.  When one part is no longer taken literally, the whole thing begins to unravel.  The Gospel presentation of Genesis 1 is rooted in how Genesis is written.

 

OK, if I were to ask the average Christian what common Gospel doctrine comes out of Gen. 1:2 by itself, what would I be told?

Or if I were to ask the average Christian what common Gospel doctrine comes out of Gen. 1:14-19, what would I be told?

 

I don't see that anyone is trying to outwit science at all.  If anything I see people trying to insert modern scientific assumptions into a text that is not scientific.

Then why is everyone trying to glean a scientific interpretation out of it rather than a spiritual one?

[Shar]

 

 

Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew. You have to view it from a Jewish perspective or you will lose its intent and full meaning. The church has misinterpreted some of Jesus' parables because of this lack of understanding. Once you do, however, they burst open with meaning. G-d states there are mysteries here. You have to do a little detective work. We have been through the duality possibility. Opinions otherwise won't change it.

 

 

"Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew."

 

But the Author was Jesus Christ.  I've "heard" that there is some proof that it was given to Moses 1 letter @ a time...can't support that statement.

 

 

"Moses wrote the Bible and was a Jew. You have to view it from a Jewish perspective or you will lose its intent and full meaning."

 

I may be misguided but I thought he wrote it to me.  I'm getting a feeling here that I either have to be a Jew or a Hebrew Scholar to be able to discern what the LORD is trying to say or distill the TRUE meaning....is that a fair assessment or am I misunderstanding the messages?

 

 

"The church has misinterpreted some of Jesus' parables"

 

What "church" might that be?

 

 

"Once you do, however, they burst open with meaning."

 

I would have to agree with you.... in some instances.  Perhaps someone can speak to this. 

 

 

"G-d states there are mysteries here. You have to do a little detective work."

 

100% agree.....

 

(Proverbs 25:2) "It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter."

 

 

One last issue....I've seen alot of posts in the forum with "G-d".  Is it that difficult to add the "O" and spell it "GOD" or I am "out of the loop" and not following proper etiquette?

 

Writing G-d instead of the way you write it stems from the Jewish perspective that G-d's name is most holy, as G-d states, and must be respected, protected and highly regarded.  It is written this way to not write out in entirety and to safeguard not taking His name in vain.  You must respect this as an expression for the love of G-d and not as a violation of proper etiquette.

 

Shiloh, you have self-proclaimed yourself a Hebrew scholar, knowledgeable of science, and of great knowledge in Judaism and the Hebrew way - and you did not know this?  Well, it now looks like you are holding yourself out as an etiquette expert too.  Shall we call you Shiloh Vanderbilt or Shiloh Post?