Betrayers of Jesus unto Cavalry

[Fez]

So we carry on the discipleship sharing the testimonies of God's word. And maybe you have not realized someone reading here you just may have even saved one person. It is better to save one person than to not save anyone at all.

 

Interesting thread.

 

Just a little correction. We don't save anyone, Jesus does that.

 

Paul said believing first comes from hearing. Our job is to speak.

 

God bless.

[GlidingWings]

Sorry Fez

 

I worded that sentence a little wrong. I didn't mean to say that we will save people.

I guess I meant we can lead others to God.

 

That's just the trouble sometimes we're so focused on the topic we don't know how to edit our own posts. Oh well as they say back to the drawing board..

[Fez]

Sorry Fez

 

I worded that sentence a little wrong. I didn't mean to say that we will save people.

I guess I meant we can lead others to God.

 

That's just the trouble sometimes we're so focused on the topic we don't know how to edit our own posts. Oh well as they say back to the drawing board..

I know what you meant to say brother. We all do it, me included, and I did not want someone who may actually believe we do save, have their misconception validated is all.

 

I sometimes post something only to have to hurriedly use the edit button when I read it in the context of others...

[Qnts2]

Ok, picture yourself walking down the street, and you hear a man claim to be equal to God. He is boasting that he is greater then the greatest person in countries history and equal to God. He even goes so far as to say he is God.

 

Your countries laws are based on the Mosaic law. So the law of the land says the following:

 

Lev 24:16 Moreover, the one who blasphemes the name of the Lord shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall certainly stone him. The alien as well as the native, when he blasphemes the Name, shall be put to death.

 

This rather ordinary looking man is telling others that he is greater then any other human, he is equal to God, and is in fact God. If you consider those statements blasphemy, then according to the law, you are to sentence him to death, and in fact join in on his execution.

 

So, if the person committed blasphemy, to have him executed, and even to join in is in obedience to what God commanded. So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      

[nebula]

 So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      

 

It can be argued that Judas did not intend to betray Jesus. Rather, having the mindset (like everyone else) that the Messiah was going to restore the Kingdom of David, and having seen Jesus overcome every time people tried to seize Him, he was thinking of hurrying God's hand. That is, he was sure that when the guards came for Jesus, Jesus would again overcome and actually begin to rise up against the Romans.

 

That would explain why he was so horribly grief-stricken when things went differently.

[Qnts2]

 

 So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      

 

It can be argued that Judas did not intend to betray Jesus. Rather, having the mindset (like everyone else) that the Messiah was going to restore the Kingdom of David, and having seen Jesus overcome every time people tried to seize Him, he was thinking of hurrying God's hand. That is, he was sure that when the guards came for Jesus, Jesus would again overcome and actually begin to rise up against the Romans.

 

That would explain why he was so horribly grief-stricken when things went differently.

 

 

It is a good argument, except for the following....

 

Matt 10:4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

 

Matt 26:15 and said, “What are you willing to give me to betray Him to you?” And they weighed out thirty pieces of silver to him. 16

From then on he began looking for a good opportunity to betray Jesus.

 

Matt 26:23 And He answered, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. ²⁴ The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” ²⁵ And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself.”

 

So, the intent you ascribe to Judas sounds plausable, but unless the original Greek word has other nuances, I think scripture does say that Judas betrayed Jesus. From your story, Judas did betray Jesus but did not intend the betrayal to result in Jesus death but rather the betrayal would result in the defeat of Rome. 

[GlidingWings]

Hi Qnts and nebula

 

It sounds like to me are you saying that Jesus was thought by many that he was going to become some powerful ruler. I mean did some people believe he was going to form some great army and be able to defeat Rome?

I'm asking because if there were some who believed this wouldn't Roman officials want him dead

if they had any word that Jesus had any attempt to overthrow the Roman army?

[Qnts2]

Hi Qnts and nebula

 

It sounds like to me are you saying that Jesus was thought by many that he was going to become some powerful ruler. I mean did some people believe he was going to form some great army and be able to defeat Rome?

I'm asking because if there were some who believed this wouldn't Roman officials want him dead

if they had any word that Jesus had any attempt to overthrow the Roman army?

 

Micah 5:2 (In Jewish bibles this verse is Micah 5:1) And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.

 

So, the Jewish view of the Messiah, is that the Messiah will be a son of David, and will rule as King over Israel, sitting on David's throne.

 

Zechariah 12:8 On that day the Lord shall protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the weakest of them shall be, on that day, like David. And the house of David shall be like angels, like the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass on that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come upon Jerusalem.

 

So, yes, the Messiah was thought to form some great army and defeat Rome, then be King over Israel.  The Jewish people under Roman rule were oppressed and looking forward to the time of the Messiah, when He would defeat Rome.

[celebratejesus]

 

Hi Qnts and nebula

 

It sounds like to me are you saying that Jesus was thought by many that he was going to become some powerful ruler. I mean did some people believe he was going to form some great army and be able to defeat Rome?

I'm asking because if there were some who believed this wouldn't Roman officials want him dead

if they had any word that Jesus had any attempt to overthrow the Roman army?

 

Micah 5:2 (In Jewish bibles this verse is Micah 5:1) And you, Bethlehem Ephrathah-you should have been the lowest of the clans of Judah-from you [he] shall emerge for Me, to be a ruler over Israel; and his origin is from of old, from days of yore.

 

So, the Jewish view of the Messiah, is that the Messiah will be a son of David, and will rule as King over Israel, sitting on David's throne.

 

Zechariah 12:8 On that day the Lord shall protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the weakest of them shall be, on that day, like David. And the house of David shall be like angels, like the angel of the Lord before them. 9 And it shall come to pass on that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come upon Jerusalem.

 

So, yes, the Messiah was thought to form some great army and defeat Rome, then be King over Israel.  The Jewish people under Roman rule were oppressed and looking forward to the time of the Messiah, when He would defeat Rome.

 

Yes, this is it, people thought Jesus (the Messiah) was going to save them in a different way, maybe I could use "a worldly" way, not a spiritual way.  In fact I see Jesus as the opposite of what so many expected.  In Jesus short ministry on Earth, so many followed Him that He became more and more of a threat to the "worldly" rulers of that day.  I think I have that right, maybe close at best:)  I love how God works, never what the "natural man" expects is He;) 

[nebula]

 

 

 So, Judas was the only person to betray Jesus, simply because he traveled with him as a disciple and a friend, and a believer, even though he secretly did not believe who Jesus said He was.      

 

It can be argued that Judas did not intend to betray Jesus. Rather, having the mindset (like everyone else) that the Messiah was going to restore the Kingdom of David, and having seen Jesus overcome every time people tried to seize Him, he was thinking of hurrying God's hand. That is, he was sure that when the guards came for Jesus, Jesus would again overcome and actually begin to rise up against the Romans.

 

That would explain why he was so horribly grief-stricken when things went differently.

 

 

It is a good argument, except for the following....

 

Matt 10:4 Simon the Zealot, and Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Him.

 

Matt 26:15 and said, “What are you willing to give me to betray Him to you?” And they weighed out thirty pieces of silver to him. 16

From then on he began looking for a good opportunity to betray Jesus.

 

Matt 26:23 And He answered, “He who dipped his hand with Me in the bowl is the one who will betray Me. ²⁴ The Son of Man is to go, just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.” ²⁵ And Judas, who was betraying Him, said, “Surely it is not I, Rabbi?” Jesus *said to him, “You have said it yourself.”

 

So, the intent you ascribe to Judas sounds plausable, but unless the original Greek word has other nuances, I think scripture does say that Judas betrayed Jesus. From your story, Judas did betray Jesus but did not intend the betrayal to result in Jesus death but rather the betrayal would result in the defeat of Rome. 

 

I did not say that Judas did not betray Jesus.

 

Simply that he believed the betrayal would lead to victory, not to defeat.