Contradiction? 1-1

[kwikphilly]

ebaltrace....

    Welcome to Worthy...........so tell us,,,,,what do you think?That Lazarus wrote the Gospel according to John,,,,,seriously?lol

Are you a Christian ,friend?  (Lean not on your own understanding....or a catholic encyclopedia)

 

 

They were always together... I can see no apparent scholarship to not believe that
at the supper and other times 'it was John with Peter'. Plus my comfortable peace as
I receive the words as that of John's written account Love, Steven                                                                     posted by enoob

 Amen....Brother Steven.....................                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

[ebaltrace]

ebaltrace....

    Welcome to Worthy...........so tell us,,,,,what do you think?That Lazarus wrote the Gospel according to John,,,,,seriously?lol

Are you a Christian ,friend?  (Lean not on your own understanding....or a catholic encyclopedia)

 

 

They were always together... I can see no apparent scholarship to not believe that

at the supper and other times 'it was John with Peter'. Plus my comfortable peace as

I receive the words as that of John's written account Love, Steven                                                                     posted by enoob

 Amen....Brother Steven.....................                                          With love-in Christ,Kwik

 

It was the Roman Catholic Church that supplied the names to the Gospels. If you want to beleve that John wrote the Gospel because the Roman Catholic Church named the Gospel that is your right.

Why aren't you open to the idea that Lazarus wrote the Gospel?

Did you read and understand my arguments?

Do you find fault with my arguments?

 

I still call it John's Gospel. I haven't used a magic marker to change the name in my Bible.

But I am open to examine and verify information especially if it came from the Pope.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings ebaltrace

     I replied to you moments ago & deleted my post,,,,,this conversation is not edifying ,does not encourage or build anyone up & can only add to confuse one of our readers that may not be well versed in the Scriptures or the History of the Bibles Authenticity,,,,,,,I cannot entertain that. Personally,I spent many years researching the origins of the texts that make up what we read today,the Bible....probably more years than you have lived but what will that do to enlighten our readers or fill their spirits????? You can do your own research,I would like to suggest that instead of following the traditions of the rcc or talking any mans word as authority  (pope) that you ask the Holy Spirit to lead,guide & direct you on your path to find Gods Timeless Truth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,looking up one word here & there and getting the Greek translation in a Strongs dictionary is not the way to learn Koine Greek or Hebrew to study the texts................

      If your interests are truly in the teachings of the rcc,,,,,,,study Latin,much is lost in the English translations

You presented your "arguments",,,,,,,that is the fastest way to turn my ears deaf...... I don't debate nor do I argue,I reason & discuss Gods inerrant Word with my brethren,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,God be with you ,coming & going

[ebaltrace]

Blessings ebaltrace

     I replied to you moments ago & deleted my post,,,,,this conversation is not edifying ,does not encourage or build anyone up & can only add to confuse one of our readers that may not be well versed in the Scriptures or the History of the Bibles Authenticity,,,,,,,I cannot entertain that. Personally,I spent many years researching the origins of the texts that make up what we read today,the Bible....probably more years than you have lived but what will that do to enlighten our readers or fill their spirits????? You can do your own research,I would like to suggest that instead of following the traditions of the rcc or talking any mans word as authority  (pope) that you ask the Holy Spirit to lead,guide & direct you on your path to find Gods Timeless Truth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,looking up one word here & there and getting the Greek translation in a Strongs dictionary is not the way to learn Koine Greek or Hebrew to study the texts................

      If your interests are truly in the teachings of the rcc,,,,,,,study Latin,much is lost in the English translations

You presented your "arguments",,,,,,,that is the fastest way to turn my ears deaf...... I don't debate nor do I argue,I reason & discuss Gods inerrant Word with my brethren,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,God be with you ,coming & going

Sure we can let this drop. It's not that important. I'm sure as time goes on we can find other things to discuss.

I see you are from South Florida. I live in Fort Pierce.

What topics do you like to discuss.

 

Ebal

[kwikphilly]

Blessings ebal

     Ahh,Florida boy? Cool,,,,,,,,,it's great,isn't it?Me? I discuss anything really,,,,,,,I just try with the help & guidance of the Holy Spirit to speak things that will encourage & help others to find what we have at the foot of the cross,in everything,,,give Glory to God

    ebal,we have some idle talk here & thats okay,,,,we are in fellowship and it is easy to make good friends here & discuss many topics,,,,,,but first & foremost we are representatives,ambassadors of Christ Jesus,,,,,,my favorite thing is to help our readers to see the love of Jesus in us,,,,,,,,,,,,like right now,you & I united by our faith in the knowledge of our Lord & Savior.......what you believe & what I believe,who wrote what Books are unimportant & its okay to disagree,,,,,,,,,,,,,we do agree that God is the Author,who was inspired by Him is not really a Salvational issue.................we love one another,thats whats important             to God be the Glory              Love,Kwik

[enoob57]

Dear Steven,

The references you cite do not point to John IMO

Allow me to make a point.

²⁰ Peter, turning around, *saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” ²¹ So Peter seeing him *said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” ²² Jesus *said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” ²³ Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”

 

So what made Peter point to the disciple that Jesus loved and say..."“Lord, and what about this man?”"

Why? Was there something unique that would inspire this question?

Yes...Peter was pointing to Lazarus who had died and had been resurrected.

In the verses just preceeding these verses Peter and Jesus had been speaking of Peter's death and now Peter wanted to know if Lazarus would die again.

And Jesus answered...""“If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? ""

And everyone present knew that they were talking about Lazarus.  ""Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die;"' They thought Lazarus would not die because he had already died once.  ""And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,"" Hebrews 9:27

 

Remember the Bible says Jesus loved Lazarus.[John 11:5] but never says he loved John.

The greatest evidence in 'not Lazarus' is the word disciple and it's appropriate meaning.

We understand by Biblical definitions in the choosing of Mathias-

Acts 1:15-23

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said,

(the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)16 Men and

brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost

by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them

that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of

this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity;

and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is

called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate,

and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the

Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto

that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness

with us of his resurrection. 23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas,

who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

KJV

We know Lazarus was not with Christ consistently as per- Jn 11:11-15; lk 10:38-42

By this below we know John certainly qualifies by this Scripture -

Matt 10:1-5

10 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against

unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner

of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who

is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus,

and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot,

who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

KJV

As with the end of the writ... the termed disciple whom Jesus loved was witness to the

greater totality of miracles to write this

John 21:25

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be

written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books

that should be written. Amen.

KJV

Thus clearly as I have stated the weight of Scripture lays heavily upon John and not

the others you listed have nothing that qualifies them in this termed 'disciples'...

Love, Steven

[Marilyn C]

Often people think that the Bible is a history book. Yes it does have some history, but it is not a history book. It does have some poetry, but is not a poetry book etc, etc. God`s word is written to show to us His wonderful Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. Every book in God`s word is to show some aspect of Him.

 

The Old Testament has great detail of who He is & what His titles, names & offices are. The gospels reveal Christ in His earthly manifestation as King of Israel (Matthew), the Son of man (Mark), the Mediator (Luke), & Deity, the Son of God (John). Then finally, in Revelation these 4 ministries are shown in fulfilment in the glorified, exalted Lord Jesus Christ.

 

To come to God`s word with any other focus other than to `know Christ,` is to misunderstand what God is showing to us & to end up with human reasonings & an earthly focus. 

 

Thus details are added or not written in, according to the aspect of Jesus being presented - king, son of man etc. And it behoves us to look at the presentation that God is showing us of Jesus, His character & ministry & be enriched by that.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

Edited October 31, 2014 by Marilyn C

[ebaltrace]

 

Dear Steven,

The references you cite do not point to John IMO

Allow me to make a point.

²⁰ Peter, turning around, *saw the disciple whom Jesus loved following them; the one who also had leaned back on His bosom at the supper and said, “Lord, who is the one who betrays You?” ²¹ So Peter seeing him *said to Jesus, “Lord, and what about this man?” ²² Jesus *said to him, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!” ²³ Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die; yet Jesus did not say to him that he would not die, but only, “If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you?”

 

So what made Peter point to the disciple that Jesus loved and say..."“Lord, and what about this man?”"

Why? Was there something unique that would inspire this question?

Yes...Peter was pointing to Lazarus who had died and had been resurrected.

In the verses just preceeding these verses Peter and Jesus had been speaking of Peter's death and now Peter wanted to know if Lazarus would die again.

And Jesus answered...""“If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? ""

And everyone present knew that they were talking about Lazarus.  ""Therefore this saying went out among the brethren that that disciple would not die;"' They thought Lazarus would not die because he had already died once.  ""And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment,"" Hebrews 9:27

 

Remember the Bible says Jesus loved Lazarus.[John 11:5] but never says he loved John.

The greatest evidence in 'not Lazarus' is the word disciple and it's appropriate meaning.

We understand by Biblical definitions in the choosing of Mathias-

Acts 1:15-23

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said,

(the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)16 Men and

brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost

by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them

that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of

this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity;

and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.

19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is

called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.

20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate,

and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the

Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto

that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness

with us of his resurrection. 23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas,

who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias.

KJV

We know Lazarus was not with Christ consistently as per- Jn 11:11-15; lk 10:38-42

By this below we know John certainly qualifies by this Scripture -

Matt 10:1-5

10 And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples, he gave them power against

unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal all manner of sickness and all manner

of disease. 2 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who

is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother;

3 Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James the son of Alphaeus,

and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot,

who also betrayed him. 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying,

Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

KJV

As with the end of the writ... the termed disciple whom Jesus loved was witness to the

greater totality of miracles to write this

John 21:25

25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be

written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books

that should be written. Amen.

KJV

Thus clearly as I have stated the weight of Scripture lays heavily upon John and not

the others you listed have nothing that qualifies them in this termed 'disciples'...

Love, Steven

 

The Gospel according to John never uses the term "apostle"

The word "disciple" is always used.

I agree that Lazarus was not one of the 12, but he was a disciple.

Lazarus and his sisters were mentioned several times so they were close to Jesus.

[Guest Angie]

Languages already existed before Babel - Genesis 10:5, Genesis 10:20, Genesis 10:31. So one language never existed before Babel, Genesis 11.

[other one]

Languages already existed before Babel - Genesis 10:5, Genesis 10:20, Genesis 10:31. So one language never existed before Babel, Genesis 11.

the dispersion that is spoken of in chapter 10 actually came to be after chapter 11.      chapter ten is a summary and the details of how it happened starts in chapter 11.

 

Chapter 11 very plainly states that the whole world spoke one language.....