What was the purpose of the Tree of Life

[Ovedya]

 

 

Again! We do not know what the original creation was like without the presence of sin and God's

curse put upon it- obviously! Your idea of present day seasons is out of context to pre-fall

conditions especially as they, Adam & Eve, had no need of covering... certainly that in itself

should support that fact of difference from present seasons and seasons then!

 

 

There's some of that theological gymnastics I mentioned. Again, the verse in Genesis indicates a time for harvest - fruit trees bearing fruit, etc., and an "appointed" time established. If you intend to deconstruct that with, "We don't know..." then you're going to have to also attempt to deconstruct "days and night....days and years" from that same verse.  Maybe there were no days and nights pre-fall, because after all, "God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all."  Clearly in that verse the light-bearers are dividing incremental units of time: Days, nights, seasons and years.  You would be very hard-pressed to find any reliable commentary that states otherwise. 

 

 

 

thus in that context it was a picture of God's Grace in

not allowing Adam and Eve and their offspring to be sealed in their sin by the

eating of The Tree of Life...

 

 

And how would they be "sealed in their sin" exactly?  By living forever perhaps?

[enoob57]

There's some of that theological gymnastics I mentioned. Again, the verse in Genesis indicates a time for harvest - fruit trees bearing fruit, etc., and an "appointed" time established. If you intend to deconstruct that with, "We don't know..." then you're going to have to also attempt to deconstruct "days and night....days and years" from that same verse.  Maybe there were no days and nights pre-fall, because after all, "God is light and in Him there is no darkness at all."  Clearly in that verse the light-bearers are dividing incremental units of time: Days, nights, seasons and years.  You would be very hard-pressed to find any reliable commentary that states otherwise.

Perhaps this is the easiest way to get at this- is sin and curse between that verse and where we are?

 

And how would they be "sealed in their sin" exactly?  By living forever perhaps?

Heb 9:22

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

KJV

Love, Steven

[Ovedya]

 

 

Perhaps this is the easiest way to get at this- is sin and curse between that verse and where we are?

 

 

Makes no difference, unless you intend to argue that day, night, seasons, days and years were all so affected by the fall that they are not remotely what we experience today, or even at the time when Genesis was written. Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find any reliable Bible commentary that argues against the seasons having ever been what they are today.  At any rate, there is no evidence supporting the supposition that creation was designed without the natural cycles.

 

 

Ovedya, on 17 Feb 2014 - 7:26 PM, said:

And how would they be "sealed in their sin" exactly?  By living forever perhaps?

Heb 9:22

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Matt 26:28

28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

KJV

Love, Steven 

 

 

This verse does not follow. It neither supports your argument, nor does it answer my challenge.

[enoob57]

Makes no difference, unless you intend to argue that day, night, seasons, days and years were all so affected by the fall that they are not remotely what we experience today, or even at the time when Genesis was written. Again, you'd be hard-pressed to find any reliable Bible commentary that argues against the seasons having ever been what they are today.  At any rate, there is no evidence supporting the supposition that creation was designed without the natural cycles.

I find it interesting that you cannot see how sin corrupts and brings death to all it touches

Relying on this assumption you believe what we see today is what it was like then yet we can see the affect

of sin in our own lives and the lives of others... and how God is going to bring about a tribulation upon

the earth from vials of our own sin stored up for this destruction!

So simply we are set opposed to one another by the reasoning of Scripture- as you have yours to account for

and I have mine Love, Steven

[Ovedya]

Vials of our own sin? You don't seriously believe that God has a lab somewhere in heaven with vials that store up human beings' individual sins, do you?

I think we're pretty much done here, enoob57. You haven't been able to answer any of my questions, really and your logic is pretty scattered and difficult to reason with clearly. Plus, you throw out something like, "vials of our own sin," which has absolutely no foundation in Scripture, and I simoly have to walk away. Grace to you.

[enoob57]

A true question does not come out demanding the answer that already is in the questioner

**************Except it be God Who contains the infinite knowledge!*******************

One who does not see that all judgment is due to sin within the (vials=vessels) containing

sin understands what exactly?

Rom 9:22

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured

with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

KJV

Love, Steven

[Ovedya]

A true question does not come out demanding the answer that already is in the questioner

**************Except it be God Who contains the infinite knowledge!*******************

One who does not see that all judgment is due to sin within the (vials=vessels) containing

sin understands what exactly?

Rom 9:22

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured

with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

KJV

Love, Steven

Uh, yeah.....none of that was coherent to me. I think this is what pseudo-spirituality gets you.

Please do yourself a huge favor and get into some solid doctrinal teachings and maybe go further into orthodox theology.

[enoob57]

A true question does not come out demanding the answer that already is in the questioner

**************Except it be God Who contains the infinite knowledge!*******************

One who does not see that all judgment is due to sin within the (vials=vessels) containing

sin understands what exactly?

Rom 9:22

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured

with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

KJV

Love, Steven

Uh, yeah.....none of that was coherent to me. I think this is what pseudo-spirituality gets you.

Please do yourself a huge favor and get into some solid doctrinal teachings and maybe go further into orthodox theology.

What was not plain to you?

[Ovedya]

All of it.

[ajchurney]

Physical death is merely the design of creation.  God never intended for man to be immortal at any time, aside from his having partaken of the tree of life.  All natural life was designed to pass through birth, life, death, and resurrection. It is this process which testifies of God's power, His nature, His immutability. Hence, it is the  reason for Romans 1:20; God's very nature is indelibly written in the cycle of life, the cycle of the environment, the cycle of the earth - all of which testify of the Lord Jesus and redemption itself. God became a man, God lived a perfect human life, God died a perfect guiltless and redemptive death, God resurrected, and God ascended once more to produce a multiplication of Himself in life and nature. This is the pattern of all living things - birth, life, death, resurrection, procreation. Therefore, it is an error to presume that God created Adam to live forever apart from His own life. God created Adam in the same pattern as all of His other creation, only with the exception that man had the right to the Tree of Life, which would have given Adam eternal life, the life of God Himself, and thereby live forever (Gen. 63:22).

 

 

I find it interesting the traditional interpretation of that old Christian chestnut, John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that He gave His Only Begotten Son, that whoever believes into Him should not perish, but have everlasting life."  The word "everlasting" has misled believers for centuries. Actually the most accurate and proper translation is "eternal."  the word "eternal imparts a much deeper meaning. Rather than saying "You will live forever," it says "you will have the eternal life, the nature of God Himself."  Living forever may have been an important aspiration for some, even many, who have read this verse, but knowing that we will have another life, another nature, another source by which we can live for eternity, is so much more valuable, so much deeper, so accurate to God's original intention in Genesis.  

 

I think it offends some believers when I tell them, "You are not going to live forever." Because this seems to defy what they believe. However, when I tell them that their eternal life in Christ Jesus simply means that they have the very life of God Himself; and that that life will result in an eternal boundless city, filled with the expression of the Triune God, they come around pretty quickly.

You and Steven are really delving deep into this, which is great. You said, "Therefore, it is an error to presume that God created Adam to live forever apart from His own life. God created Adam in the same pattern as all of His other creation, only with the exception that man had the right to the Tree of Life, which would have given Adam eternal life, the life of God Himself, and thereby live forever (Gen. 63:22)."

 Do you think it is impossible that God created Adam with what we would call a glorified body? When Jesus conquered death and rose from the dead, He then was housed in one of these. If Adam had not yet experienced spiritual death, which is what Jesus conquered, then why is it impossible that the first Adam before the fall would have what the second Adam had after the resurrection? Even if God created the rest of the living things in the world with certain patterns, which no one can be entirely sure of their forms pre-fall, surely it is not impossible that God created His highest order of being with a glorified body. Mankind was made just a little lower than Elohim (I am sure you know the scrip!), and He was made the steward of the entire Earth and had dominion over everything. How could Adam even come close to fulfilling God's original intent for him in a basically perfect version of the body we have, subject to death and all natural forces? Everything Adam was came from God and was sustained by God regardless. Angels apparently are immortal, do not age or die. Why is it error or incredible if man was in an immortal, glorified state prior to the fall. I am not saying that this is absolute, unassailable truth, but you seem to present man as originally subject to normal physical death as unassailable truth, which I believe overstates the case. However, you are very astute in your use of scripture,  and obviously intelligent and a student of the word, which I love!! I also agree with your earlier assessment of "eternal life" being much more than living forever...great stuff! I really want to read your response

As far as the tree of life necessitating a body that can die, It is also in heaven, where there is no death, and everyone has a glorified body, so I am not sure of your reasoning there, but look forward to your explanation!

Blessings, Andy

P.S.-you and Steven need to not get personal......just sayin'!  Keep it in love!