udx Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) A couple of things about the free market concept.1. Rents can only go so high before the market rejects them. Similar to house prices.2. A landlord who cannot be satisfied with a 10% return on investment is clearly greedy.3. To avoid being a helpless lifetime tenant, become an ethical landlord.Where did you get this magic number of 10% over any other number? Why do you get to decide the demarcation line between greedy and not greedy in isolation of any other factors?Real Estate – Without using any debt, real estate return demands from investors mirror those of business ownership and stocks. The real rate of return for good, non-leveraged properties is roughly 7% after inflation. Since we have gone through decades of 3% inflation, over the past 20 years, that figure has stabilized at 10%. Riskier projects require higher rates of return. Plus, real estate investors are known for using mortgages, which are a form of leverage, to increase the return on their investment.http://beginnersinvest.about.com/od/beginnerscorner/a/What-Is-Considered-A-Good-Rate-Of-Return-On-Your-Investments.htmThat does not answer the question. Why do you get to decide it is greed if it is over 10%?Like the article says.. and what I implied, risker project require higher return rates.Are you a property owner who rents out homes?No. Just a person who dislike and challenge arguments/positions that are very one sided. Edited October 15, 2015 by udx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I have been renting for years.I know the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udx Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) I have been renting for years.I know the game.Ah.. Seems like you want to use the I have more experience than you type of argument on me.I should clarify then. I used to own a house, but sold it. I have rented the house out while I owned it. Why don't we go back to discussing the issue instead of these irrelevant details. Edited October 15, 2015 by udx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I have been renting for years.I know the game. Ah.. Seems like you want to use the I have more experience than you type of argument on me. I should clarify then. I used to own a house, but sold it. I have rented the house out while I owned it. And you are one to wants to argue it to the end and get in the last word.No with me...goodbye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esther4:14 Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 11 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 603 Content Per Day: 0.19 Reputation: 628 Days Won: 1 Joined: 08/07/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) I am not sure that I don't think that most homeowners are really only a different class of renters. To me, a 30 year mortgage is just like a 30 year rental agreement with perks when it's tax season. I think that banks have manipulated the right to property. We have something of the illusion of property rights because a lord of the land (landlord) goes by the name of Wells Fargo or Bank of America instead of Lord Dunmore or Lord Devonshire. Upton Sinclair presented a interesting point of view of the real estate agent in his book "The Jungle." The real estate agent was like a bad car salesman who took poor Jurgis for a ride promising him much if he decided to buy a home instead of renting and delivering little. It turns out that the real estate agent would flip the house over and over to poor immigrants families who could fully understand the contract they were entering into and would inevitably spend more money buying the home than renting, which would lead to foreclosure and the home never really being owned by anyone but the bank. No matter how many times it changed hands, the bank was always the true owner of the home. Upton Sinclair was not concerned about writing a fairy tale because he had his own protagonist suffer the same fate. It was very sad, but very insightful. I have often considered how different real estate is from this perspective that he presented, which inspired significant social change for the meat packing industry. I think his perspective towards real estate was overlooked in light of this. Edited October 15, 2015 by Esther4:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
udx Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Senior Member Followers: 2 Topic Count: 18 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 684 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 230 Days Won: 2 Joined: 04/15/2009 Status: Offline Share Posted October 15, 2015 I am not sure that I don't think that most homeowners are really only a different class of renters. To me, a 30 year mortgage is just like a 30 year rental agreement with perks when it's tax season. I think that banks have manipulated the right to property. We have something of the illusion of property rights because a lord of the land (landlord) goes by the name of Wells Fargo or Bank of America instead of Lord Dunmore or Lord Devonshire. Upton Sinclair presented a interesting point of view of the real estate agent in his book "The Jungle." The real estate agent was like a bad car salesman who took poor Jurgis for a ride promising him much if he decided to buy a home instead of renting and delivering little. It turns out that the real estate agent would flip the house over and over to poor immigrants families who could fully understand the contract they were entering into and would inevitably spend more money buying the home than renting, which would lead to foreclosure and the home never really being owned by anyone but the bank. No matter how many times it changed hands, the bank was always the true owner of the home. Upton Sinclair was not concerned about writing a fairy tale because he had his own protagonist suffer the same fate. It was very sad, but very insightful. I have often considered how different real estate is from this perspective that he presented, which inspired significant social change for the meat packing industry. I think his perspective towards real estate was overlooked in light of this. I agree. With how much property tax people are burden with, it is pretty much renting. If you can't pay the property tax, your property would be taken from you just like if you fail to pay the rent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.35 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted October 15, 2015 I agree. With how much property tax people are burden with, it is pretty much renting. If you can't pay the property tax, your property would be taken from you just like if you fail to pay the rent. While property taxes have to be factored in, there is no comparison between owning your property and renting. Ultimately a property owner can pay off his mortgage, and plan to pay it off sooner than later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted October 15, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 597 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,124 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,854 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted October 15, 2015 I agree. With how much property tax people are burden with, it is pretty much renting. If you can't pay the property tax, your property would be taken from you just like if you fail to pay the rent. While property taxes have to be factored in, there is no comparison between owning your property and renting. Ultimately a property owner can pay off his mortgage, and plan to pay it off sooner than later. and when your house is paid off and your car is paid off and your credit cards are paid off..... life can be really fun if you have your health.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorningGlory Posted October 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 1,022 Topics Per Day: 0.16 Content Count: 39,193 Content Per Day: 6.11 Reputation: 9,977 Days Won: 78 Joined: 10/01/2006 Status: Offline Share Posted October 18, 2015 I know this thread has been around a while but I just saw this article today.....this woman lives and works in San Francisco. Wait 'til you read how much a BUNK costs in that city! S.F. is one of my favorite cities, btw, and I actually lived there when I was younger; just wouldn't want to live there now. http://qz.com/524138/rent-is-so-high-in-san-francisco-that-im-a-software-engineer-and-i-live-in-a-van Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missmuffet Posted October 18, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,991 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,689 Content Per Day: 11.81 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 I know this thread has been around a while but I just saw this article today.....this woman lives and works in San Francisco. Wait 'til you read how much a BUNK costs in that city! S.F. is one of my favorite cities, btw, and I actually lived there when I was younger; just wouldn't want to live there now. http://qz.com/524138/rent-is-so-high-in-san-francisco-that-im-a-software-engineer-and-i-live-in-a-van$1,600.00/month is pretty much going rate for a three bedroom house here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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