Spiral Galaxies: (A Challenge to the Paradigm?)

[Guest]

Fair is the sunshine,

Fairer still the moonlight,

And all the twinkling starry host;

Jesus shines brighter, Jesus shines purer

Than all the angels heaven can boast.

 

 

Amen~!

 

The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwell in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined. Isaiah 9:2

 

And Amen~!

 

Now when Jesus had heard that John was cast into prison, he departed into Galilee;

 

And leaving Nazareth, he came and dwelt in Capernaum, which is upon the sea coast, in the borders of Zabulon and Nephthalim:

 

That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,

 

The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

 

The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up. Matthew 4:12-16

[gray wolf]

What can I add to that? Sleep? Me?

[Guest]

:24:

[LookingForAnswers]

Do you have a link that shows this...

According to Current Stellar "evolution" Theory:  Spiral Galaxies take only 2 to 3 turns before beginning to dissipate and lose their definition; therefore, any Galaxies beyond 10 to 20 Million "Light Years" should not reveal Spirals.

 

Is actually the current theory on Spiral Galaxies

 

And if it happens to be, then the theory on Spiral Galaxies is faulty, does nothing to the age of the universe at all. 

[LookingForAnswers]

An answer to your challenge, not really hard to find. 

 

http://m.teachastronomy.com/astropedia/article/Spiral-Structure-in-Galaxies

 

The more widely accepted theory for spiral arms is the spiral density wave model. In this theory, galaxies form with significant angular momentum in a single direction (and overall bulk rotation in one direction). They also start out with areas that have more mass than others. As the entire system rotates, the volumes with more material are able to gravitationally grow, while the volumes between these over densities empty out. As any one galaxy rotates, differential rotation causes its inner parts to complete one orbit faster than the outer parts of the galaxy. These difference in orbital time causes the material to take on a spiral structure. In spiral galaxies, the arms actually orbit far slower than the material that at any one point in time makes up the arms. This is the same as a traffic jam that may migrate down the high way at a rate slower than any one car that must temporarily gets delayed by the traffic jam. Looked at from the perspective a single orbiting star, the star will be accelerated as it nears an arm - a region of extra material with extra gravitational pull. It will than pass through the material but be slowed down as it leaves, as the material in the arm slows it on its orbit. This acceleration into the arm and deceleration out of the arm causes the star to linger longer in the region of the arm than it will linger in other parts of its orbit. By creating an area where material lingers, the spiral density wave can create a standing over density that can be maintained over long periods. Models based on this theory are able to replicate actual galaxy shapes. In addition to replicating galaxies well, this model also explains why star formation primarily takes place in the arms. When clouds of gas enter the spiral arms, they are compressed and this triggers collapse and star formation. To create grand design spirals, systems with perfect pinwheel arms, the spiral density waves have to be enhanced by the effects of an outside force, such as a gravitational interaction with a smaller galaxy.

[anthonyjmcgirr]

 

We would need to update our hypotheses then, I should think!

 

 

I have one....

 

They were All Made @ the Same Time and the "Light" thereof reached the Earth @ the SAME TIME before HE began "STRETCHING THE HEAVENS".

 

Can it be tested......NO

 

But it sure is compelling and parts (Literal Ones) are supported by THE WORD.

 

 

 

Love it!  This has been my theory.  Everything we see points to a young universe. 

[Enoch2021]

An answer to your challenge, not really hard to find. 

 

http://m.teachastronomy.com/astropedia/article/Spiral-Structure-in-Galaxies

 

The more widely accepted theory for spiral arms is the spiral density wave model. In this theory, galaxies form with significant angular momentum in a single direction (and overall bulk rotation in one direction). They also start out with areas that have more mass than others. As the entire system rotates, the volumes with more material are able to gravitationally grow, while the volumes between these over densities empty out. As any one galaxy rotates, differential rotation causes its inner parts to complete one orbit faster than the outer parts of the galaxy. These difference in orbital time causes the material to take on a spiral structure. In spiral galaxies, the arms actually orbit far slower than the material that at any one point in time makes up the arms. This is the same as a traffic jam that may migrate down the high way at a rate slower than any one car that must temporarily gets delayed by the traffic jam. Looked at from the perspective a single orbiting star, the star will be accelerated as it nears an arm - a region of extra material with extra gravitational pull. It will than pass through the material but be slowed down as it leaves, as the material in the arm slows it on its orbit. This acceleration into the arm and deceleration out of the arm causes the star to linger longer in the region of the arm than it will linger in other parts of its orbit. By creating an area where material lingers, the spiral density wave can create a standing over density that can be maintained over long periods. Models based on this theory are able to replicate actual galaxy shapes. In addition to replicating galaxies well, this model also explains why star formation primarily takes place in the arms. When clouds of gas enter the spiral arms, they are compressed and this triggers collapse and star formation. To create grand design spirals, systems with perfect pinwheel arms, the spiral density waves have to be enhanced by the effects of an outside force, such as a gravitational interaction with a smaller galaxy.

 

 

 

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An answer to your challenge, not really hard to find.

 

Especially when it doesn't answer the question.

 

Can you show me the part where it explains how Massive Spiral Galaxies such as BX442 can be formed in 3 Billion Years?

 

 

When clouds of gas enter the spiral arms, they are compressed and this triggers collapse and star formation.

 

Yea, sure.  PICS ??   Can you or they explain "Star" Formation in a 2LOT context and in a framework of Boyle's Gas Law and Jeans Mass?

 

 

Thanks

[LookingForAnswers]

 

 

Especially when it doesn't answer the question.

 

Can you show me the part where it explains how Massive Spiral Galaxies such as BX442 can be formed in 3 Billion Years?

 

That was not the question it was answering, it was in reference to the first part of your post.

 

Yea, sure.  PICS ??   Can you or they explain "Star" Formation in a 2LOT context and in a framework of Boyle's Gas Law and Jeans Mass?

 

 

Thanks

 

 

No, I can't and neither can you so that is why we both turn to the work of other people. The only real difference is that I give credit where you just post pictures without the source.  It is almost like you are hiding your sources.

Edited March 7, 2014 by LookingForAnswers

[LookingForAnswers]

theories on BX442

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/grand-design-spiral-bx442/

Primordial Pinwheel: Astronomers Spot Oldest Prominent Spiral Galaxy Yet

Three billion years after the big bang most galaxies were clumpy and odd-shaped, but at least one had already assumed a familiar form, and may elucidate how modern galaxies got their shapes

Jul 19, 2012 |By John Matson

 

David Law; Dunlap Insitute for Astronomy & Astrophysics

The early universe was a rough-and-tumble place. Galaxies smashed together with much more regularity than they do today, and the insides of galaxies were chaotic, clumpy pods of stars. It was no place for an orderly, delicate swirl of a galaxy like the Milky Way or Andromeda.

But by scanning hundreds of galaxies that existed just a few billion years after the big bang, a group of astronomers has turned up a diamond in the cosmic rough. The researchers found a rare early galaxy with pronounced spiral arms, they reported in the July 19 issue of Nature. And that galaxy's unique circumstances may help explain why spirals are so rare at that epoch. (Scientific American is part of Nature Publishing Group.)

The newfound galaxy, known as BX 442, was identified as a spiral in Hubble images targeting 306 galaxies at redshifts of 1.5 to 3.6, corresponding to times roughly 9.3 billion to 11.9 billion years ago. (Redshift is a measure of cosmological distance that indicates how much an object's light has been stretched toward longer wavelengths as it traverses an expanding universe.) BX 442, the only identifiable spiral of the bunch, resides at redshift 2.18, some 10.7 billion years ago, or just three billion years after the big bang. It appears to fit the bill for a variety called a grand-design spiral, in which pronounced spiral arms lend a well-defined shape to the galaxy's disk of stars.

"We see the grand-design spiral pattern in this galaxy, and it's kind of astounding. We hadn't expected to find that," says lead study author David Law, an astrophysicist at the University of Toronto. "The 300-odd other galaxies in our own survey, and many others in different surveys, don't show this pattern."

Spirals are common in the modern universe, but as astronomers gaze across the cosmos at objects farther and farther away—and hence further and further back in time—spiral structure starts to peter out, which is why BX 442 makes for such an interesting case study.

"It is unique, they're right about that," says astronomer Bruce Elmegreen of IBM's T. J. Watson Research Center in Yorktown Heights, N.Y. "It's been known for awhile that there are disks at these redshifts. Disks are not surprising, and usually when there are disks locally there are spirals in the disks," he adds. "But at these redshifts spirals have not been seen, and that had been a puzzle."

Instead of orderly swirls, astronomers see lumpy, blobby galaxies going through the cosmic equivalent of an awkward phase. "At these redshifts, the galaxy population if you look with Hubble mostly looks irregular and peculiar," says astrophysicist Christopher Conselice of the University of Nottingham. "Most of those galaxies are probably undergoing mergers, smashing together." And their stars are not usually confined to a flat, thin, evenly rotating disk.

BX 442, too, appears to have a somewhat chaotic stellar population, as if it its contents have been churned up. But somehow a regular spiral structure was imprinted on the galaxy's stars, perhaps by a recent grazing encounter with a much smaller galaxy. "What seems to set it apart as best as we can tell is it has this little companion galaxy off to the side," Law says of the rare spiral.

A study last year showed that the Sagittarius Dwarf Galaxy, a satellite of the Milky Way, could be responsible for some of the spiral structure of our own galaxy. As Sagittarius fell inward and passed through the plane of the larger galaxy, its impact would have been strong enough to disrupt a uniform disk of stars and morph it into a familiar spiral. A similar process could explain the atypical spiral nature of BX 442. Using a computer simulation, the researchers found that an interaction could indeed stir up spiral structure in the distant galaxy. But that transformation would not be permanent if indeed the companion galaxy were the trigger. "If that's the case, then what we're seeing now will probably fade away within about 100 million years or so," Law says.

The transitory nature of a spiral structure at that epoch could explain why Law and his colleagues found just one spiral in their galactic survey. In fact, BX 442 may have evolved into a different shape in the billions of years since it emitted the light now reaching Earth. "It's impossible to say what happened to that spiral galaxy," Conselice says. "It's not like the galaxy types are set in stone."

BX 442 could also have generated its own spiral structure without a nudge from its neighbor, Elmegreen notes. Clumps of stars and gas within a galaxy can cause spirals to form, and BX 442 appears to contain at least one large clump along one of its spiral arms. "They perturb everything around them, and each clump sort of makes its own tidal tail," Elmegreen says. "That's a rather easy way to get three spiral arms, and this galaxy has three arms."

It may be that numerous different mechanisms can shape a spiral galaxy. Many more examples should be accessible for study once next-generation observatories, such as NASA's James Webb Space Telescope, come online. Until then, astronomers will have to rely on unique specimens such as BX 442 to help clear up which are the dominant forces creating spiral structure at different times in the universe's history. "We don't really have a good explanation for how the spiral arms exist," Conselice says. "There's a lot of questions that we just haven't answered

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

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That was not the question it was answering, it was in reference to the first part of your post.

 

I didn't have a question in the first part of the Post      Call Stellar "evolution" Theory and tell them

 

 

No, I can't and neither can you so that is why we both turn to the work of other people.

 

Well why would I offer PICS??  ...it's impossible from a Physics and Common Sense Standpoint.

 

What in the World does this mean..... "so that is why we both turn to the work of other people"  ??

 

The only real difference is that I give credit where you just post pictures without the source.  It is almost like you are hiding your sources.

 

I missed Quibbling.  So you (again) just make stuff up.  LOL

 

Here's what I did....

 

I went to Google (You're familiar) and hit IMAGES.

 

Then I typed in:  Galaxies, Red Shift Desert, and BX442  not necessarily in that order.  I was drinking coffee @ the time also, good?