faith vs science.. what vs?

[Tolken]

JerryR34 - to carry this a step farther, just think about how many miracles the Jewish people saw in Egypt and on their Exodus etc., and they still wanted to worship a golden calf...

 

Sure says something about human nature, doesn't it?  Always odd to me how many postings (FB) about "living in the moment", which isn't so bad if one understands the past and considers the future, otherwise the moment is embraced with blinders....  

[jerryR34]

JerryR34 - to carry this a step farther, just think about how many miracles the Jewish people saw in Egypt and on their Exodus etc., and they still wanted to worship a golden calf...

 

Sure says something about human nature, doesn't it?  Always odd to me how many postings (FB) about "living in the moment", which isn't so bad if one understands the past and considers the future, otherwise the moment is embraced with blinders....  

I think there are many atheists now who, if they saw the Red Sea parted, would believe in God, yet the Israelites who had already witnessed many miracles kept on disbeleivin'.  

[Tolken]

JerryR34 - I think there are many atheists now who, if they saw the Red Sea parted, would believe in God, yet the Israelites who had already witnessed many miracles kept on disbeleivin'.

 

Perhaps, then I'm somewhat jaded as concerns the human condition.  It has been my experience to witness people experiencing a significant trauma of some sort and then swearing to change their attitude or habits to prevent a future similar occurrence...as time drifts and memory fades so do the emphatic changes drift elsewhere along the way.  As to the Red Sea and such I would think most would simply seek the explanation to be of naturalistic causes and intensive investigations would ensue.  Then again, you might just have a greater hopefulness of "humanity" than I...though to me the perspective of history seems to have taught us little...

[jerryR34]

JerryR34 - I think there are many atheists now who, if they saw the Red Sea parted, would believe in God, yet the Israelites who had already witnessed many miracles kept on disbeleivin'.

 

Perhaps, then I'm somewhat jaded as concerns the human condition.  It has been my experience to witness people experiencing a significant trauma of some sort and then swearing to change their attitude or habits to prevent a future similar occurrence...as time drifts and memory fades so do the emphatic changes drift elsewhere along the way.  As to the Red Sea and such I would think most would simply seek the explanation to be of naturalistic causes and intensive investigations would ensue.  Then again, you might just have a greater hopefulness of "humanity" than I...though to me the perspective of history seems to have taught us little...

Well put...seems we are destined to repeat history.  Although, there are some who see God in everyday "little" miracles and those who would immediately start scientific analysis of the video of the sea parting to find another answer.

[enoob57]

As I was reading through this dialogue I noticed some areas of confessions Jerry that if you

would reconsider a little further would lead you in another direction of the reconsideration

of the existence of God!

HOWEVER; ...if it's dealing with past events its not "science".   It's....

hahaha...I now see why you have such a hard time with science. Anything we observe is in the past, so by your comment, there is no "science".  It's kind of like looking at a picture of yourself when you were younger.  lol...  (btw, all pictures of yourself are pictures when you were younger).

Time is one of the most practical examinations of the existence of God: entropy has driven the aspect of time to

a critical level in all regards to what is observable in life as 'we' know it (observable as corporeal)... For in

time (space, time, matter equilibrium) the testimony is in time 'end' to what we have began in-> being the cessation

of all matter in this law of observance. As it is metered by what appears to be outside of observable fact of begin-

ning -or- rather in necessity of corporeal existence in order to be functional in purpose as we know it. Put in the

infinite concept outside of the boundaries of corporeal acquisition and time become other-> as observed by God's

Self witness of where He 'IS'

2 Peter 3:8-9

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord

as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack

concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to

us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

KJV

Why this is important to the mind is the total witness in science of causal realities within the testable sphere of

corporeal exist is not that exist! What we are relying on to know all truth is only an indicator or pointer toward an

infinite truth outside of causal needs that has formulated precedencies non reliant upon the frailties of cessation!

Our exist has always been and will always be 'there is more to what is known' in all facets of understanding... When

one comes into belief in Jesus and asks Him into their heart time changes in concept of importance as belonging to Him

and it's meter of purpose changes to His good pleasure! Jerry we are a children who no longer fear death nor the ravages

of entropy to all that we know by our first begin ->for we are transformed into the eternal exist of what God's Word says

will be with perfect rest that it is so...

 

"If I say..."

If you say, nature does not care one iota.  Our vocabulary has no impact on natural processes whatsoever.

We understand you do not believe in God but only in the where of now... and it is your 'God Given' right to do so! Have you

noticed within yourself the need of reliance upon something that does not change but is reliable to rest upon -such as your

love for science and it's empirical aspects toward arriving at solutions to the what is around us... gives you a non-floating

as more of a stable realm in which to exist. In fact you have loved this produce so much that you have made it the all of

your life and in definition your god of truth... your god testifies that it is passing away! I would seriously reconsider,

if I were you, where you have placed your faith! There is simply more vocabulary out there than you can assess- welcome to

the witness of the infinite place of the lost and the myriads of vocalized thoughts written an non-written...  

 

 

The ridiculous thing i found out about this argument, and I've thought about this long and hard. But from the day jesus was created and even walking the earth and creating miracles, he was still been denied of existence and even slaughtered on the cross! They had their "physical proof" right there in front of them. And yet they all turned a blind eye to it and destroyed it themselves. Does that not tell you the ignorance of "science" and the non believers and the pointlessness of trying to find "proof" for them. They didn't even believe it when it was right in front of them! So what changes that now? I believe the last days will be the ultimate test for christians and none christians alike. That, even then it describes how many wont believe what they are seeing. Thats my view of the never ending argument. (I was born and raised a Christian and baptised at 16) the point is, due to their own self fulfilment and selfishness and even fear, they will deny his word. Thats why we as. Christians must stand strong and not let it get to us. I find that the more christians argue the points to a atheist or the like, the further they themselves fall from god.

Found the right room for this post now

to carry this a step farther, just think about how many miracles the Jewish people saw in Egypt and on their Exodus etc., and they still wanted to worship a golden calf...

It is very excellent you have noticed this reality in God's Word. As now you must place this in the context of the why it is there

and the what of it's communication to us (all who can read at least ) The Purpose of Genesis to Malachi is total exhaustive

justification to what occurred in the garden in our rebellion against God's Word

Gen 2:17

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:

for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

KJV

We on the backside of this event cannot imagine what the front side was like because we are under God's pronouncement of death and

curse that seems to fill every nook and cranny of this place of existence... Herein is the problem to get to the reality of deliverance

from this event of death and curse one must walk the designed path by God to escape the destruction so very apparent around us and in us!

That is what Jesus meant here

John 3:3-8

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man

be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How

can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's

womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man

be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit

is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8 The wind

bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell

whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

KJV

One must be regenerated in being from being dead and only seeing this life as all there is to the reality 'Of Whatever God Say's There

Will Be' 'IS' that which will be... it is called because of promise not yet come as 'Living Hope'... So it is easy to see one who denies

this living hope can only hope in that which is dead.

 

JerryR34 - I think there are many atheists now who, if they saw the Red Sea parted, would believe in God, yet the Israelites who had already witnessed many miracles kept on disbeleivin'.

 

Perhaps, then I'm somewhat jaded as concerns the human condition.  It has been my experience to witness people experiencing a significant trauma of some sort and then swearing to change their attitude or habits to prevent a future similar occurrence...as time drifts and memory fades so do the emphatic changes drift elsewhere along the way.  As to the Red Sea and such I would think most would simply seek the explanation to be of naturalistic causes and intensive investigations would ensue.  Then again, you might just have a greater hopefulness of "humanity" than I...though to me the perspective of history seems to have taught us little...

Well put...seems we are destined to repeat history.  Although, there are some who see God in everyday "little" miracles and those who would immediately start scientific analysis of the video of the sea parting to find another answer.

The only source of eternal truth we have is that which is eternal

Josh 21:45

Not a word failed of any good thing which the Lord had spoken to the house of Israel.

***********************************All came to pass.********************************

NKJV

So then the end of The Word of God will be as history has shown the Word of God to be self evident truth... Love, Steven

[gray wolf]

??? I thought I made a rather clever reply earlier

[enoob57]

I realized what your howling about as there always lies a danger of

depression when an expected impression falls through

[gray wolf]

Yes and I know a thing or two about Schwermut!

[jerryR34]

 

We understand you do not believe in God

No, you understand I don't believe the in God the way you do.  Just because the is website put a label on me does not label me...

Edited March 17, 2014 by jerryR34

[enoob57]

We understand you do not believe in God

No, you understand I don't believe the in God the way you do.  Just because the is website put a label on me does not label me...

I know the requirement for proper belief in God is directly put forth in the inquiry of this

site... I know that you are disagreement with The Word of God in this and I know that there

is only one way, one life, one truth and that you have not agreed to this! We are known by our

alignment to The Word of God and not by what we think

Eph 4:14-15

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro,

and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight

of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to

deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into

him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

John 17:16-17

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

KJV

As you can see by what the Word instructs there will be many, many, who say this way and that by

their own lust and error and deep down I think they know it is so but because they will not

yield themselves to God's authority in His Word-> they will think one way and God is another!

Love, Steven