Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Shiloh and Qnts have just accepted that what you posted is right without looking carefully at it. I know exactly what happened. I have made the same mistake in times past, but it just happens I have learned better over the years. When something doesn't sound quite right, I look it up. When something is wrong, I recognize it because I am one of those who has stayed in the Word, diligently studying scripture over the years, reading it over and over and over again. I have stuck with one translation, so I don't get so easily confused by the differences. Did the Pharisees and Sadducees study scripture? I think they did what people do today. They go to their Bible schools and learn what others tell them scriptures mean. That is not the same thing as actually studying the Bible. Based on what the Pharisees and Sadducees had been taught about scripture, they likely did believe they had eternal life. Let me BTU, I thought this a good nickname for you, say your zeal and passion for God's Word are commendable! However have you not read 1 Cor 12:27-31 27 Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. 28 And God has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, varieties of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Are all workers of miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healings? Do all speak with tongues? Do all interpret? 31 But earnestly desire the best gifts. And yet I show you a more excellent way. NKJV These Letters (literally) that form this concept that came from Paul's Heart and God's Himself in The Holy Spirit teach us something... What is it? Love, Steven This has zero to do with whether or not it is important to focus on scripture. Strangely enough, in a thread where people are downplaying Bible knowledge, they want to use the Bible to defend their positions. All God is saying is that love for God and your neighbor are the most important things, because in those two commandments hang all the laws. He isn't saying the gifts are unimportant, or study of scripture is unimportant. Go ahead and lay down your sword. See what happens. BTW, if the Holy Spirit wants to teach me something, I trust him to do it. I am not playing games like teacher and student. If you have a point to make, do so and I will consider it. You did not give inference to the focus of Scripture but how to focus on Scripture internally demanding the way for proper interpretation to come thus all should be internally teachers... such as yourself right? Love, Steven This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The OP is downplaying a careful focus on scripture and desiring to replace it with feelings. I spent many years in a Pentecostal Church, and later in a charismatic church. They are not the same. Pentecostals care more about doctrine, where charismatics claim it is all about relationship. It sounds all nice, but what they are doing is taking the focus off of moral purity and placing it in feelings, like the way we feel when we are in a praise service. Don't worry so much about how you live or being an expert on doctrine. Just come to church, pay your tithes, and be a worshipper of God and all is well. That is the same junk we are getting here, but in a subtle way. It is a lie. You know God by knowing his Word. In his Word, we see God as he is, rather than the fairy tale image that has been created by the modern church. It is no wonder these people don't want us to worry about studying scripture. When you do, they lose their power to deceive. You go back into the dark ages where people didn't have a Bible and had to rely on whatever the Catholic Priest told them was right. Today, it is the modern church that wants us to trust their assurances that all is well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2014 Everyone is continuing to debate, partially based on a lie. I am referring to John 5:39. Jesus never said the Pharisees had been searching the scriptures. He told them they need to search the scriptures. It appears Jesus is saying that because of a poorly worded translation Nebula was using, but notice what it says in the KJV Bible. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. See how much different that is when you take the word "You" out of it. I could use this as a jumping off point to attack her translation, but I don't even think her translation is saying anything different than mine. It was not meaning they already do it, even in that translation, but it is saying that they need to search the scriptures, because if they do, they will see how they testify of Christ. If you are basing your conclusions that the religious crowd studied scripture based on that, you are wrong. Except that according to what Shiloh and Qnts are posting, they knew the Scriptures. But even so, by this wording: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life" - it sounds as if Jesus is saying that they are wrong in thinking that they find eternal life in the Scriptures. Yup, they thought by searching and studying scripture, dedicating themselves to study and the commands, they had eternal life. Jesus is saying simply, they are missing that scripture is about Him. Scripture is about the Messiah, and that they are to come to the Messiah, but they refused. That is exactly what happened. The Pharisees studied scripture, taught scripture, expounded on the scripture, about the Mosaic covenant. But, they never came to Jesus. They missed the Messiah, or 'the hour of their visitation'. John 5:38 ]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. In comparison: John 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” Judaism divided the OT into three separate books. The Torah, which is the books of Moses or 'the Law', the Neviim which are the Prophets, and the final book is the Ketuvim, called the Writings. In this verse, two of the three books are mentioned, saying, the Messiah of whom the Torah and Neviim wrote about, Philip found Him. Philip knew the scriptures. But unlike many of the Pharisees, Philip found the One whom the Tenakh wrote about. (TeNaKh is an acronym for all three books. T for Torah, N for Neviim, and K for Ketuvim). Nebula, I know you know this stuff, but I am repeating it for those who might not have heard these Jewish expressions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Everyone is continuing to debate, partially based on a lie. I am referring to John 5:39. Jesus never said the Pharisees had been searching the scriptures. He told them they need to search the scriptures. It appears Jesus is saying that because of a poorly worded translation Nebula was using, but notice what it says in the KJV Bible. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. See how much different that is when you take the word "You" out of it. I could use this as a jumping off point to attack her translation, but I don't even think her translation is saying anything different than mine. It was not meaning they already do it, even in that translation, but it is saying that they need to search the scriptures, because if they do, they will see how they testify of Christ. If you are basing your conclusions that the religious crowd studied scripture based on that, you are wrong. Except that according to what Shiloh and Qnts are posting, they knew the Scriptures. But even so, by this wording: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life" - it sounds as if Jesus is saying that they are wrong in thinking that they find eternal life in the Scriptures. Yup, they thought by searching and studying scripture, dedicating themselves to study and the commands, they had eternal life. Jesus is saying simply, they are missing that scripture is about Him. Scripture is about the Messiah, and that they are to come to the Messiah, but they refused. That is exactly what happened. The Pharisees studied scripture, taught scripture, expounded on the scripture, about the Mosaic covenant. But, they never came to Jesus. They missed the Messiah, or 'the hour of their visitation'. John 5:38 ]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. In comparison: John 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” Judaism divided the OT into three separate books. The Torah, which is the books of Moses or 'the Law', the Neviim which are the Prophets, and the final book is the Ketuvim, called the Writings. In this verse, two of the three books are mentioned, saying, the Messiah of whom the Torah and Neviim wrote about, Philip found Him. Philip knew the scriptures. But unlike many of the Pharisees, Philip found the One whom the Tenakh wrote about. (TeNaKh is an acronym for all three books. T for Torah, N for Neviim, and K for Ketuvim). Nebula, I know you know this stuff, but I am repeating it for those who might not have heard these Jewish expressions. That is not true. Jesus did not say they had studied the scriptures. Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 That is the entire verse. Nebula's Bible doesn't even really disagree with the KJV Bible, but her translation is easier to misunderstand because of the way it is worded. Nothing you said can be proven true. Jesus never indicated that the Pharisees had already studied scriptures and that by doing so thought it would give them eternal life. It only says that the religious crowd thought they had eternal life because they had Abraham as their Father. It never says they believed they had eternal life because they studied hard. If you disagree, I challenge you to prove that is the reason they thought they had eternal life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2014 This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The OP is downplaying a careful focus on scripture and desiring to replace it with feelings. I spent many years in a Pentecostal Church, and later in a charismatic church. They are not the same. Pentecostals care more about doctrine, where charismatics claim it is all about relationship. It sounds all nice, but what they are doing is taking the focus off of moral purity and placing it in feelings, like the way we feel when we are in a praise service. Don't worry so much about how you live or being an expert on doctrine. Just come to church, pay your tithes, and be a worshipper of God and all is well. That is the same junk we are getting here, but in a subtle way. It is a lie. You know God by knowing his Word. In his Word, we see God as he is, rather than the fairy tale image that has been created by the modern church. It is no wonder these people don't want us to worry about studying scripture. When you do, they lose their power to deceive. You go back into the dark ages where people didn't have a Bible and had to rely on whatever the Catholic Priest told them was right. Today, it is the modern church that wants us to trust their assurances that all is well. You are basing your comments on your experience. I can equally say that I have been in Churches which focus on studying scripture, yet miss God. Knowledge of scripture is held up as superior, but a person is able to memorize huge amounts of scripture, study theology, study hermenuetics, study study study, and miss God. One the other end, a person can find God, and never study theology, and not know what hermeneutics even means. I think it was at the end of the 1800's, Fundamentalism focused on study of scripture, theology etc, but had become ineffective in evangelism. Along came Evangelicalism, which focused more on relationship with God, and was very successful in evangelism. Due to that success, many churches focused more on the Evangelical relational view. Then in the 1900's, along came Post Modern understanding of scripture. Evangelicals did not emphasize theology etc., and were not very effective at presenting scriptural arguments to defend the faith, and there were few Fundamentalists, so Post Modern made huge inroads with very little challenge. The point being, study of scripture without the Holy Spirit, and relationship does not guarantee a person grows or is even a true believer. But the lack of scriptural study, with an emphasis on relationship and feelings leaves a person without a defense of every wind of doctrine or false doctrine, so can be led off the path. (I also know of people who were caught up in the emotion of Charismatic/Pentacostal, and enjoyed the excitement, but missed Jesus). In the end, from what I have experienced, one extreme or the other leads to a Christian who is not prepared or even a non-Christian because of a wrong emphasis. Both are needed in balance. Reliance on the Holy Spirit, and study to show thyself approved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The OP is downplaying a careful focus on scripture and desiring to replace it with feelings. I spent many years in a Pentecostal Church, and later in a charismatic church. They are not the same. Pentecostals care more about doctrine, where charismatics claim it is all about relationship. It sounds all nice, but what they are doing is taking the focus off of moral purity and placing it in feelings, like the way we feel when we are in a praise service. Don't worry so much about how you live or being an expert on doctrine. Just come to church, pay your tithes, and be a worshipper of God and all is well. That is the same junk we are getting here, but in a subtle way. It is a lie. You know God by knowing his Word. In his Word, we see God as he is, rather than the fairy tale image that has been created by the modern church. It is no wonder these people don't want us to worry about studying scripture. When you do, they lose their power to deceive. You go back into the dark ages where people didn't have a Bible and had to rely on whatever the Catholic Priest told them was right. Today, it is the modern church that wants us to trust their assurances that all is well. You are basing your comments on your experience. I can equally say that I have been in Churches which focus on studying scripture, yet miss God. Knowledge of scripture is held up as superior, but a person is able to memorize huge amounts of scripture, study theology, study hermenuetics, study study study, and miss God. One the other end, a person can find God, and never study theology, and not know what hermeneutics even means. I think it was at the end of the 1800's, Fundamentalism focused on study of scripture, theology etc, but had become ineffective in evangelism. Along came Evangelicalism, which focused more on relationship with God, and was very successful in evangelism. Due to that success, many churches focused more on the Evangelical relational view. Then in the 1900's, along came Post Modern understanding of scripture. Evangelicals did not emphasize theology etc., and were not very effective at presenting scriptural arguments to defend the faith, and there were few Fundamentalists, so Post Modern made huge inroads with very little challenge. The point being, study of scripture without the Holy Spirit, and relationship does not guarantee a person grows or is even a true believer. But the lack of scriptural study, with an emphasis on relationship and feelings leaves a person without a defense of every wind of doctrine or false doctrine, so can be led off the path. (I also know of people who were caught up in the emotion of Charismatic/Pentacostal, and enjoyed the excitement, but missed Jesus). In the end, from what I have experienced, one extreme or the other leads to a Christian who is not prepared or even a non-Christian because of a wrong emphasis. Both are needed in balance. Reliance on the Holy Spirit, and study to show thyself approved. I think I agree with you. Balance is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2014 Everyone is continuing to debate, partially based on a lie. I am referring to John 5:39. Jesus never said the Pharisees had been searching the scriptures. He told them they need to search the scriptures. It appears Jesus is saying that because of a poorly worded translation Nebula was using, but notice what it says in the KJV Bible. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. See how much different that is when you take the word "You" out of it. I could use this as a jumping off point to attack her translation, but I don't even think her translation is saying anything different than mine. It was not meaning they already do it, even in that translation, but it is saying that they need to search the scriptures, because if they do, they will see how they testify of Christ. If you are basing your conclusions that the religious crowd studied scripture based on that, you are wrong. Except that according to what Shiloh and Qnts are posting, they knew the Scriptures. But even so, by this wording: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life" - it sounds as if Jesus is saying that they are wrong in thinking that they find eternal life in the Scriptures. Yup, they thought by searching and studying scripture, dedicating themselves to study and the commands, they had eternal life. Jesus is saying simply, they are missing that scripture is about Him. Scripture is about the Messiah, and that they are to come to the Messiah, but they refused. That is exactly what happened. The Pharisees studied scripture, taught scripture, expounded on the scripture, about the Mosaic covenant. But, they never came to Jesus. They missed the Messiah, or 'the hour of their visitation'. John 5:38 ]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. In comparison: John 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” Judaism divided the OT into three separate books. The Torah, which is the books of Moses or 'the Law', the Neviim which are the Prophets, and the final book is the Ketuvim, called the Writings. In this verse, two of the three books are mentioned, saying, the Messiah of whom the Torah and Neviim wrote about, Philip found Him. Philip knew the scriptures. But unlike many of the Pharisees, Philip found the One whom the Tenakh wrote about. (TeNaKh is an acronym for all three books. T for Torah, N for Neviim, and K for Ketuvim). Nebula, I know you know this stuff, but I am repeating it for those who might not have heard these Jewish expressions. That is not true. Jesus did not say they had studied the scriptures. Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 That is the entire verse. Nebula's Bible doesn't even really disagree with the KJV Bible, but her translation is easier to misunderstand because of the way it is worded. Nothing you said can be proven true. Jesus never indicated that the Pharisees had already studied scriptures and that by doing so thought it would give them eternal life. It only says that the religious crowd thought they had eternal life because they had Abraham as their Father. It never says they believed they had eternal life because they studied hard. If you disagree, I challenge you to prove that is the reason they thought they had eternal life. Yes, He did. In this case, I would call your interpretation a 'private interpretation', but scripture clearly shows that they search the scripture thinking that in them they had eternal life, but missed that the scripture was speaking of Jesus so refused to come to Him.. They had studied the scripture and missed the Messiah. But, I think your theory is that study of scripture guarantees knowledge of Messiah, so salvation. It sound like you are trying to say, a person can not truly study scripture, and miss Jesus, therefore the Pharisees could not have really studied scripture since they missed Jesus. Which of course isn't true since salvation needs the drawing of God, and the Holy Spirit revealing the truth too. A person can study scripture for their entire lives without the Holy Spirit and miss Jesus. Salvation is a work of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.71 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted March 7, 2014 This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The OP is downplaying a careful focus on scripture and desiring to replace it with feelings. I spent many years in a Pentecostal Church, and later in a charismatic church. They are not the same. Pentecostals care more about doctrine, where charismatics claim it is all about relationship. It sounds all nice, but what they are doing is taking the focus off of moral purity and placing it in feelings, like the way we feel when we are in a praise service. Don't worry so much about how you live or being an expert on doctrine. Just come to church, pay your tithes, and be a worshipper of God and all is well. That is the same junk we are getting here, but in a subtle way. It is a lie. You know God by knowing his Word. In his Word, we see God as he is, rather than the fairy tale image that has been created by the modern church. It is no wonder these people don't want us to worry about studying scripture. When you do, they lose their power to deceive. You go back into the dark ages where people didn't have a Bible and had to rely on whatever the Catholic Priest told them was right. Today, it is the modern church that wants us to trust their assurances that all is well. You are basing your comments on your experience. I can equally say that I have been in Churches which focus on studying scripture, yet miss God. Knowledge of scripture is held up as superior, but a person is able to memorize huge amounts of scripture, study theology, study hermenuetics, study study study, and miss God. One the other end, a person can find God, and never study theology, and not know what hermeneutics even means. I think it was at the end of the 1800's, Fundamentalism focused on study of scripture, theology etc, but had become ineffective in evangelism. Along came Evangelicalism, which focused more on relationship with God, and was very successful in evangelism. Due to that success, many churches focused more on the Evangelical relational view. Then in the 1900's, along came Post Modern understanding of scripture. Evangelicals did not emphasize theology etc., and were not very effective at presenting scriptural arguments to defend the faith, and there were few Fundamentalists, so Post Modern made huge inroads with very little challenge. The point being, study of scripture without the Holy Spirit, and relationship does not guarantee a person grows or is even a true believer. But the lack of scriptural study, with an emphasis on relationship and feelings leaves a person without a defense of every wind of doctrine or false doctrine, so can be led off the path. (I also know of people who were caught up in the emotion of Charismatic/Pentacostal, and enjoyed the excitement, but missed Jesus). In the end, from what I have experienced, one extreme or the other leads to a Christian who is not prepared or even a non-Christian because of a wrong emphasis. Both are needed in balance. Reliance on the Holy Spirit, and study to show thyself approved. I think I agree with you. Balance is needed. OH MY!!!!! We agree!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enoob57 Posted March 7, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 35 Topic Count: 100 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 41,171 Content Per Day: 7.98 Reputation: 21,445 Days Won: 76 Joined: 03/13/2010 Status: Offline Birthday: 07/27/1957 Share Posted March 7, 2014 You cannot be God's if not born again By His Spirit Jn 3:3 ;You cannot be formed correct without His Fruit Gal 5:22-23 ;you cannot bear fruit unless you plant the Word in others Jn 15:5 ;Love, Steven Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 Everyone is continuing to debate, partially based on a lie. I am referring to John 5:39. Jesus never said the Pharisees had been searching the scriptures. He told them they need to search the scriptures. It appears Jesus is saying that because of a poorly worded translation Nebula was using, but notice what it says in the KJV Bible. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. See how much different that is when you take the word "You" out of it. I could use this as a jumping off point to attack her translation, but I don't even think her translation is saying anything different than mine. It was not meaning they already do it, even in that translation, but it is saying that they need to search the scriptures, because if they do, they will see how they testify of Christ. If you are basing your conclusions that the religious crowd studied scripture based on that, you are wrong. Except that according to what Shiloh and Qnts are posting, they knew the Scriptures. But even so, by this wording: "Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life" - it sounds as if Jesus is saying that they are wrong in thinking that they find eternal life in the Scriptures. Yup, they thought by searching and studying scripture, dedicating themselves to study and the commands, they had eternal life. Jesus is saying simply, they are missing that scripture is about Him. Scripture is about the Messiah, and that they are to come to the Messiah, but they refused. That is exactly what happened. The Pharisees studied scripture, taught scripture, expounded on the scripture, about the Mosaic covenant. But, they never came to Jesus. They missed the Messiah, or 'the hour of their visitation'. John 5:38 ]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; 40 and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life. In comparison: John 1:45 Philip found Nathanael and said to him, “We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote—Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.” Judaism divided the OT into three separate books. The Torah, which is the books of Moses or 'the Law', the Neviim which are the Prophets, and the final book is the Ketuvim, called the Writings. In this verse, two of the three books are mentioned, saying, the Messiah of whom the Torah and Neviim wrote about, Philip found Him. Philip knew the scriptures. But unlike many of the Pharisees, Philip found the One whom the Tenakh wrote about. (TeNaKh is an acronym for all three books. T for Torah, N for Neviim, and K for Ketuvim). Nebula, I know you know this stuff, but I am repeating it for those who might not have heard these Jewish expressions. That is not true. Jesus did not say they had studied the scriptures. Search the Scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39 That is the entire verse. Nebula's Bible doesn't even really disagree with the KJV Bible, but her translation is easier to misunderstand because of the way it is worded. Nothing you said can be proven true. Jesus never indicated that the Pharisees had already studied scriptures and that by doing so thought it would give them eternal life. It only says that the religious crowd thought they had eternal life because they had Abraham as their Father. It never says they believed they had eternal life because they studied hard. If you disagree, I challenge you to prove that is the reason they thought they had eternal life. Yes, He did. In this case, I would call your interpretation a 'private interpretation', but scripture clearly shows that they search the scripture thinking that in them they had eternal life, but missed that the scripture was speaking of Jesus so refused to come to Him.. They had studied the scripture and missed the Messiah. But, I think your theory is that study of scripture guarantees knowledge of Messiah, so salvation. It sound like you are trying to say, a person can not truly study scripture, and miss Jesus, therefore the Pharisees could not have really studied scripture since they missed Jesus. Which of course isn't true since salvation needs the drawing of God, and the Holy Spirit revealing the truth too. A person can study scripture for their entire lives without the Holy Spirit and miss Jesus. Salvation is a work of God. It is not my private interpretation. It is what is written in my KJV Bible, which is what I go by. No, I am not claiming studying scripture guarantees seeing Jesus in it, but I am saying that Jesus never said the Pharisees had actually studied scripture, and that is the reason they believe they have eternal life. He said they think they have eternal life because they look to Abraham as their Father. I am not even interpreting that verse. I am taking it as written in my Bible. I am rejecting Nebula's translation because it makes the passage unclear. I don't even think they meant it like you are taking it, which is why I didn't make a big deal about the KJV verses her version. It isn't so much that her translation had it wrong. It is just unclear the way they wrote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Butero Posted March 7, 2014 Share Posted March 7, 2014 This has absolutely nothing to do with the topic of this thread. The OP is downplaying a careful focus on scripture and desiring to replace it with feelings. I spent many years in a Pentecostal Church, and later in a charismatic church. They are not the same. Pentecostals care more about doctrine, where charismatics claim it is all about relationship. It sounds all nice, but what they are doing is taking the focus off of moral purity and placing it in feelings, like the way we feel when we are in a praise service. Don't worry so much about how you live or being an expert on doctrine. Just come to church, pay your tithes, and be a worshipper of God and all is well. That is the same junk we are getting here, but in a subtle way. It is a lie. You know God by knowing his Word. In his Word, we see God as he is, rather than the fairy tale image that has been created by the modern church. It is no wonder these people don't want us to worry about studying scripture. When you do, they lose their power to deceive. You go back into the dark ages where people didn't have a Bible and had to rely on whatever the Catholic Priest told them was right. Today, it is the modern church that wants us to trust their assurances that all is well. You are basing your comments on your experience. I can equally say that I have been in Churches which focus on studying scripture, yet miss God. Knowledge of scripture is held up as superior, but a person is able to memorize huge amounts of scripture, study theology, study hermenuetics, study study study, and miss God. One the other end, a person can find God, and never study theology, and not know what hermeneutics even means. I think it was at the end of the 1800's, Fundamentalism focused on study of scripture, theology etc, but had become ineffective in evangelism. Along came Evangelicalism, which focused more on relationship with God, and was very successful in evangelism. Due to that success, many churches focused more on the Evangelical relational view. Then in the 1900's, along came Post Modern understanding of scripture. Evangelicals did not emphasize theology etc., and were not very effective at presenting scriptural arguments to defend the faith, and there were few Fundamentalists, so Post Modern made huge inroads with very little challenge. The point being, study of scripture without the Holy Spirit, and relationship does not guarantee a person grows or is even a true believer. But the lack of scriptural study, with an emphasis on relationship and feelings leaves a person without a defense of every wind of doctrine or false doctrine, so can be led off the path. (I also know of people who were caught up in the emotion of Charismatic/Pentacostal, and enjoyed the excitement, but missed Jesus). In the end, from what I have experienced, one extreme or the other leads to a Christian who is not prepared or even a non-Christian because of a wrong emphasis. Both are needed in balance. Reliance on the Holy Spirit, and study to show thyself approved. I think I agree with you. Balance is needed. OH MY!!!!! We agree!!!!! Scary hugh? I agree with what you wrote there, so perhaps there is common ground to be found? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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